The Perfect Storm

[PACardsFan]

I am talking about before the season starts and maybe it's because for years now the Oline just doesn't get addressed properly and after last years disaster I don't see it changing much.

Our OL sucked last year in large part due to a combination of horrendous offensive schemes & injuries galore. The overall offensive scheme changes from last year to this year could not be more dramatic. We're going from the most boring offensive system in franchise history to an offensive system that could be a potential juggernaut. This was not a draft that was loaded with great OLinemen, yet we still used FA to improve what we had. I still contend that a great QB can hide OL inadequacies. That's where Murray's unique skill set will help the OL show dramatic improvement from last year. To say that this is the most negative you have ever been about an upcoming season is just mind boggling to me. As long time Cardinal fans, let's just hope I'm right.

 

[Krangodnzr]

K1 is going to be the first 6,000 yard passer this season.

Hes also going to rush for 2000 yards.

80 TDs, 40 passing, 40 rushing.

Guaranteed.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For ***** and giggles hes also going to play cornerback and he'll get no less than 20 interceptions, 17 of them pick sixes.

When he gets tired of that, hes going to tell Chandler Jones to step aside. Hell get 11 sacks....in one game.

Sadly after scoring 97 TDs, 20 interceptions, and 11 sacks, he gets hurt getting tackles by a punter and misses the final 13 games of the season.

 

[Goldfield]

.if that's the case then why hire Kingsbury as a HC when you probably could have gotten him as an OC.

Mike B said they wanted the Offensive guru play caller the be the HC so teams couldn’t steal him away after a good season or two. It’s the new way with all the league rules benefiting the O.

 

[Goldfield]

Our OL sucked last year in large part due to a combination of horrendous offensive schemes & injuries galore. The overall offensive scheme changes from last year to this year could not be more dramatic. We're going from the most boring offensive system in franchise history to an offensive system that could be a potential juggernaut. This was not a draft that was loaded with great OLinemen, yet we still used FA to improve what we had. I still contend that a great QB can hide OL inadequacies. That's where Murray's unique skill set will help the OL show dramatic improvement from last year. To say that this is the most negative you have ever been about an upcoming season is just mind boggling to me. As long time Cardinal fans, let's just hope I'm right.

This completely, we are 100 times better than last year. Last year was complete dog crap at every aspect. Even if our record isn’t great we will be soo much better.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think there is a chance that this comes to fruition. A legitimate chance.

That's why I loved this move once I realized the implication: Kyler Murray was the only move that could elevate this team to greatness. Sticking with Rosen wouldnt do that.

I'm moving closer to that position.

 

[Stout]

I’m excited about the Potential Murray has talent wise. But I’m not setting any major/unrealistic expectations. After the season we had last year I just want an exciting team again.

This is utterly reasonable. I'm mildly pessimistic with room for optimism. My major problem is that, rather than adding to a team with a young QB, we're just still a team with a young QB. We could have had a promising young QB PLUS a #1 pick talent at another position. I think that's a huge mistake. But...BUT...now that's over with, and we have to get on with this coming season. I hope and pray KM pans out. Even if he's good, there's a LOT on this roster that needs to go pretty much perfectly for us to have a shot at a 1-season turnaround.

Haha. Okay man, I can respect that point of view. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

And just once for the record, I understand there's only a tiny chance Murray will be a HOF NFL player.

 

[Cardiac]

Leinart played multiple years at a storied program against many ranked programs, winning a Heisman, a National Championship, and almost winning a second of both. Plus we got him at 10, we didn't draft him at #1. We also didn't waste a top ten pick, 3rd, and 5th rounder to play his position the year prior.

Leinart was a frat party boy who was also a mama's boy who stayed in college forever because he loved to be the "king" and didn't really love FB. He wasn't very athletic and his arm was only average. Yet we all over looked this because of the lame reasons you listed and because his height fit the "proper" requirement.

Rosen sucked and even though it wasn't all or even mostly his fault he couldn't rise even a little bit above the chaos. I do expect him to have a good to very good career if he gets on the right team but Murray has more skills and ability then Josh. So if you can upgrade the most important position on the team then you don't snivel and whine about sunk costs in draft picks. Also the 3rd and 5th given up for him were basically recouped with the 2nd rd pick we got for him.

Teams will trade multiple first and second and third round picks to get the QB they want so giving up an extra first for Murray was not a big deal.

 

[Solar7]

Leinart was a frat party boy who was also a mama's boy who stayed in college forever because he loved to be the "king" and didn't really love FB. He wasn't very athletic and his arm was only average. Yet we all over looked this because of the lame reasons you listed and because his height fit the "proper" requirement.

Rosen sucked and even though it wasn't all or even mostly his fault he couldn't rise even a little bit above the chaos. I do expect him to have a good to very good career if he gets on the right team but Murray has more skills and ability then Josh. So if you can upgrade the most important position on the team then you don't snivel and whine about sunk costs in draft picks. Also the 3rd and 5th given up for him were basically recouped with the 2nd rd pick we got for him.

Teams will trade multiple first and second and third round picks to get the QB they want so giving up an extra first for Murray was not a big deal.

Sorry you have a grudge against frat dudes or something, and honestly, would you have bailed on USC as one of LA's only football celebrities to jump into the grind?

Leinart's reputation, play, and draft status were all completely sensible decisions from the start, thus why no one complained. History proves it was a poor decision, but it was right at the time.

Rosen vs. Murray? I mean my argument all along is that neither guy matters. We have absolutely no idea if Murray is a clear upgrade yet, as he hasn't taken a snap. Honestly, I think we were looking at Andy Dalton vs. Marcus Mariota. Neither matter in the grand scheme of things. And like @Stout said, we've wasted opportunities to surround a young QB with talent, which is what our division rivals did with Wilson and Goff.

"Also the 3rd and 5th given up for him were basically recouped with the 2nd rd pick we got for him."
Oh, yeah? But how about that top ten draft pick that we didn't recoup? It shakes out to this. We gave up a top ten pick, a 3rd, a 5th, $10 million, and an $8 million cap hit this year for a 5'9 receiver from UMass.

Give me a break. There's no positive spin on what we "recouped."

 

[Sandan]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND MY SANITY, CAN WE PLEASE CHILL OUT.

We know nothing, zero nada, Murray may be the second coming of Joe Montana or Scud, we just don't so can we chill a little.

Please.

 

[Cardiac]

Sorry you have a grudge against frat dudes or something, and honestly, would you have bailed on USC as one of LA's only football celebrities to jump into the grind?

Leinart's reputation, play, and draft status were all completely sensible decisions from the start, thus why no one complained. History proves it was a poor decision, but it was right at the time.

Rosen vs. Murray? I mean my argument all along is that neither guy matters. We have absolutely no idea if Murray is a clear upgrade yet, as he hasn't taken a snap. Honestly, I think we were looking at Andy Dalton vs. Marcus Mariota. Neither matter in the grand scheme of things. And like @Stout said, we've wasted opportunities to surround a young QB with talent, which is what our division rivals did with Wilson and Goff.

"Also the 3rd and 5th given up for him were basically recouped with the 2nd rd pick we got for him."
Oh, yeah? But how about that top ten draft pick that we didn't recoup? It shakes out to this. We gave up a top ten pick, a 3rd, a 5th, $10 million, and an $8 million cap hit this year for a 5'9 receiver from UMass.

Give me a break. There's no positive spin on what we "recouped."

You attack Murray's attitude and desire so I illustrate that Leinart had concerns as well. Those were over looked because Leinart had the "required" height.

Of course Murray hasn't proven what he can do in the NFL because the season hasn't started yet, like for every other player drafted this year. The draft is all about looking at game film and combine and etc. and projecting how they will do in the NFL. Murray has shown more athletic ability and produced far greater numbers then Leinart (and Rosen) so he projects to be better at the QB position.

Teams have given up a ton of draft capital to get their QB of the future. The Cards basically gave up two first rd picks for Murray so not that out of line. More than I would want to spend but more than worth it if Murray turns out to be what many think he can be. We didn't have a Wilson or Goff to build around so Keim went and got one,

 

[Solar7]

You attack Murray's attitude and desire so I illustrate that Leinart had concerns as well. Those were over looked because Leinart had the "required" height.

Of course Murray hasn't proven what he can do in the NFL because the season hasn't started yet, like for every other player drafted this year. The draft is all about looking at game film and combine and etc. and projecting how they will do in the NFL. Murray has shown more athletic ability and produced far greater numbers then Leinart (and Rosen) so he projects to be better at the QB position.

Teams have given up a ton of draft capital to get their QB of the future. The Cards basically gave up two first rd picks for Murray so not that out of line. More than I would want to spend but more than worth it if Murray turns out to be what many think he can be. We didn't have a Wilson or Goff to build around so Keim went and got one,

Leinart's concerns really came post-draft, not before. Not to mention, the questions about Kyler's desire are more about his love of, and offer with another sport, not because I'm concerned he's an cornholio or something.

You'll be hard pressed to find a place where Leinart wasn't considered an elite prospect for multiple years up to the draft, and an early Heisman favorite. One year earlier, he would have been the consensus #1 overall pick. Pretending Murray had any of that kind of clear path to being the #1 overall pick or Leinart's college resume is outright silliness.

We didn't give up draft capital for Kyler. We gave up draft capital for Andy Isabella. We could have drafted Calvin Ridley, Orlando Brown, another player, and still Kyler.

 

[Cardiac]

Leinart's concerns really came post-draft, not before. Not to mention, the questions about Kyler's desire are more about his love of, and offer with another sport, not because I'm concerned he's an ******* or something.

You'll be hard pressed to find a place where Leinart wasn't considered an elite prospect for multiple years up to the draft, and an early Heisman favorite. One year earlier, he would have been the consensus #1 overall pick. Pretending Murray had any of that kind of clear path to being the #1 overall pick or Leinart's college resume is outright silliness.

We didn't give up draft capital for Kyler. We gave up draft capital for Andy Isabella. We could have drafted Calvin Ridley, Orlando Brown, another player, and still Kyler.

If Leinart had such a great rep then why did he slide to us at the #10 pick IIRC.

I give up on trying to make my draft capital point, you take it far to literally.

 

[Solar7]

If Leinart had such a great rep then why did he slide to us at the #10 pick IIRC.

I give up on trying to make my draft capital point, you take it far to literally.

Well, sliding to #10 isn't exactly chopped liver, for one... the hype that year following Vince Young's heroic defeat of USC catapulted him to the #3 spot that likely would have been Leinart's if it weren't for Bud Adams' interference over Jeff Fisher (holy crap, I can't believe I still remember this garbage so clearly).

Other teams in that range had already drafted an early QB, with the exception of the Lions and Raiders, who were under some of the most fiercely inept management of the era - but at least the Raiders had spent a draft pick on ASU's Andrew Walter a year before.

Regarding draft capital, yeah, I do... there's not a lot of NFL QBs with proven records that you'd give up #1 overall, #10 overall, a 3rd, and a 5th for. It's a challenging mistake, one that Kyler's really going to have to be transcendent to make up for.

Now, he's who we have now, and I'm beginning to move on a bit from my disgust over the cost for this guy, but his success is going to be predicated on who we can put around him, and we already lost some opportunities and money.

I'm actually coming around to this weird thing where I feel bad for Kyler, because that spotlight is sure gonna burn.

 

[cardsfanmd]

And how did the Andrea Gail end up in the Perfect Storm...……..Could be the good ship Murray ends up sinking also....and the Cards are years behind the rest of the NFL...…..again.

FWIW, PA said the team was the perfect storm, not the boat. The storm kicked ass.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Would posters be upset if it was Andrew Luck that we drafted and the board was mostly if not entirely thrilled?

IIRC most here were thrilled when we drafted Leinart and I don't recall all this "civil war" hysteria.

I went off when we drafted ML and was lambasted on here lol. He was a b&tch and it was plain as day lol.

 

[Solar7]

I went off when we drafted ML and was lambasted on here lol. He was a b&tch and it was plain as day lol.

Big words. Kid played at a high level program and did it damn well. Whiz totally mismanaged him.

Lots of strong talk for someone who never did a thing but get caught in a bad hot tub photo.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Big words. Kid played at a high level program and did it damn well. Whiz totally mismanaged him.

Lots of strong talk for someone who never did a thing but get caught in a bad hot tub photo.

Funny.

 

[Solar7]

Funny.

I'm assuming that has to do with Kyler, but I've never called him a bitch or anything near the sort. That's pretty much calling someone's manliness into question and has no place, IMO.

 

[NJCardFan]

Big words. Kid played at a high level program and did it damn well. Whiz totally mismanaged him.

Lots of strong talk for someone who never did a thing but get caught in a bad hot tub photo.

Leinart was soft and fragile. He ended up getting starting opportunities in both Houston and Oakland, not to mention here, and he couldn't stay healthy.

 

[JeffGollin]

Sometimes I wish I knew what it felt like to root for a dynasty but if you're not a fan of those teams, winning a title is more appreciated. Like, I can't imagine what it's like to be a Nationals fan or a fan of most teams in the NBA.

Actually, I think what too frequently happens when you root for a dynasty is that the football media embarrasses you with praise borne out of only a casual knowledge of the team:

i.e. "Cardinals? How about that Larry Fitzgerald?"

 

[cardsfanmd]

I'm assuming that has to do with Kyler, but I've never called him a bitch or anything near the sort. That's pretty much calling someone's manliness into question and has no place, IMO.

It has zero to do with Murray. Seeing Leinart sell his buddies out on punked predraft said exactly who he was at his core. His talent was def there. Unfortunately, his heart wasn’t.

 

[Solar7]

Leinart was soft and fragile. He ended up getting starting opportunities in both Houston and Oakland, not to mention here, and he couldn't stay healthy.

It has zero to do with Murray. Seeing Leinart sell his buddies out on punked predraft said exactly who he was at his core. His talent was def there. Unfortunately, his heart wasn’t.

Apparently my old post didn't actually go through, so let me rewrite. I think Leinart got to nail it with the celebrity of being USC's QB, but was a good guy overall, just embracing what it was like to be that age around that time. He didn't do anything particularly bad, and I think if he had a "rah rah" coach in the NFL like Pete Carroll (or even Denny Green), he would have been amazing. His confidence got shattered by Whisenhunt, who wanted a hard-nosed, more quiet guy, not a Hollywood QB with confidence.

I don't think Leinart was bad/soft/fragile, I think he was mismanaged, and consistently challenged instead of supported. I think if Whiz had worked with him instead of looking for a new personality to develop, he'd have succeeded.

But the honest truth of it all is that I'm probably Matt Leinart's biggest supporter that isn't him or Nick Lachey. He's a good dude from personal experience.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Apparently my old post didn't actually go through, so let me rewrite. I think Leinart got to nail it with the celebrity of being USC's QB, but was a good guy overall, just embracing what it was like to be that age around that time. He didn't do anything particularly bad, and I think if he had a "rah rah" coach in the NFL like Pete Carroll (or even Denny Green), he would have been amazing. His confidence got shattered by Whisenhunt, who wanted a hard-nosed, more quiet guy, not a Hollywood QB with confidence.

I don't think Leinart was bad/soft/fragile, I think he was mismanaged, and consistently challenged instead of supported. I think if Whiz had worked with him instead of looking for a new personality to develop, he'd have succeeded.

But the honest truth of it all is that I'm probably Matt Leinart's biggest supporter that isn't him or Nick Lachey. He's a good dude from personal experience.

He’s a great dude from personal experience. My boys play in flag football league. One of them caught a TD from Leinart during summer camp when he was 6. He was also an incredibly fragile ego as a QB. And in the end not dedicated enough to his craft. Ironically he ended up being everything that you’re worried kyler will be but taller.

1. Played with a supremely talented team. 2. Didn’t lose much and didn’t know how he’s deal with adversity.
3. Not champing at the bit to get to the NFL.
4. Not dedicated to his craft.

And yet you still support Leinart more than Murray.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He’s a great dude from personal experience. My boys play in flag football league. One of them caught a TD from Leinart during summer camp when he was 6. He was also an incredibly fragile ego as a QB. And in the end not dedicated enough to his craft. Ironically he ended up being everything that you’re worried kyler will be but taller.

1. Played with a supremely talented team. 2. Didn’t lose much and didn’t know how he’s deal with adversity.
3. Not champing at the bit to get to the NFL.
4. Not dedicated to his craft.

And yet you still support Leinart more than Murray.

I'm pretty sure I know Solar's response:

Leinart wasn't a one year wonder like Murray and was a beast for 3 straight seasons in college, won two national titles which Murray didn't, overall giving him a better body of work to get excited about when he was drafted.