The Reality of Josh McCown - and other musings . . .

[Russ Smith]

I still dont think you can fully jugde Josh without a running game.... I dont recall people banging on josh after the saints win..why? cuz the team rushed for 211 yards.


my point is I will reserve judgement until we can get some consistent run production and more targets for josh to hit.

So next year? The same things were said when Jake was here, there was always a reason why he couldn't succeed that he had no control over. So the answer was always get a better OL, better WR's and better RB's and then he'll play better.

The point is ANY QB will look better if you improve all the talent around him, not just Josh.

The point I think you're missing is you're forgetting who the opponents are. New Orleans has a HORRIBLE run defense, before that game I said we should pound the ball they can't stop the run, after that game Emmitt was reborn, Hambrick was great, we can finally run the ball and there I was reminding people hey if you haven't noticed EVERYONE runs the ball against the Saints(ok until Tampa Bay who can't run on anybody).

now this week we play a team with tons of injuries, during the game they lose Peterson(first quarter) they lost Winborn temporarily so they had one starting LB, Ulbrich, they started a DE that was unemployed a week ago. The big sack of the game was a backup DB who only plays on special teams usually. Josh nearly throws a pick on the next play to a backup DB who isn't even listed on the roster on NFL.com right now(near as I can tell). You put that defense on the field in an NFL game and someone is going throw the ball against them.

You have to consider the opposition when you evaluate players.

 

[clif]

still too early to tell. He make more good plays than bad. he made some nice throws and threw the ball away well... he threw 3 tds so that is an obvious improvement.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Yeah I am wrong about "fellow Seminoles" but I see it as dubious only in that you would use this quote out of context to try and pile on Josh even though Sundays losss is not his fault. Your quote was and I am paraphrasing that you are and others are now seeing what Quan might have meant in his quote. I say you haven't changed your position at all. You always had a bias against the Kid but now is your chance to invent reasons that this loss was Joshs fault and that some how his performence was not good enough therefore we lose and Greeen shouldn't have gone with him and won't stick with him...blah, blah, blah......Russ it is your same old song and dance my friend. You wanted a different QB. DG said Josh is the guy for the forseeable future and now at every opportunity or percieved one you and others invent reasons the Kid shouldn't be under center. And the reason? You didn't get Ben or Eli or Blake got cut....Josh got the starting Job...and hasn't lost it by his play on the field. He is a work in progress and he has made strides. I am sorry that you can't or refuse to see that.

It seems I don't find myself agreeing with you very often, but your last two posts in regard to Russ's bias are right on IMO.

Russ, you do indeed seem to have a tendancy to selectively pick out primarily only points to diss Josh. For years you were on Jake's case, The past two years you blatently pimped first Leftwich and this year Roth.
...and you now just seem to refuse to get off that horse.

Try this for size: try comparing Josh's development to Pennington's. It basically took him 3 years + to start really living up to his "potential", even Leftwich, your golden boy, although progressing, isn't exactly leading the Jags to an undefeated season.

And I do indeed think its still a little premature to start pimping Roth as an instant success in the NFL. My bet is, you'll still seem some more growing pains out of him too.

 

[CaptTurbo]

even Leftwich, your golden boy, although progressing, isn't exactly leading the Jags to an undefeated season.

And I do indeed think its still a little premature to start pimping Roth as an instant success in the NFL. My bet is, you'll still seem some more growing pains out of him too.

LOL well this proves why there is no arguing with Tango. Pimping Plummer and McCown to be just as good as Leftwich and Rith. hmmm Lets compare records shall we?

 

[Pariah]

Try this for size: try comparing Josh's development to Pennington's. It basically took him 3 years + to start really living up to his "potential",

I could be wrong, but I thought Pennington rode pine behind Testeverde for a couple of years, and then as soon as he started (due to injury), he lit it up. So, if you want to comapre McCown to Pennington from a development standpoint, McCown doesn't compare favorably.

 

[Tangodnzr]

LOL well this proves why there is no arguing with Tango. Pimping Plummer and McCown to be just as good as Leftwich and Rith. hmmm Lets compare records shall we?

I'd suggest you refrain a little more from posting your gibberish until you can seem to actually follow the thought train previously expressed by someone else.

 

[clif]

LOL well this proves why there is no arguing with Tango. Pimping Plummer and McCown to be just as good as Leftwich and Rith. hmmm Lets compare records shall we?

and what does plummer, leftwich and Roth all have that McCown doesnt? a running game.

 

[Pariah]

and what does plummer, leftwich and Roth all have that McCown doesnt? a running game.

Clif, stats aren't that hard to look up:

Rushing yards this season:

Cardinals: 528
Jaguars: 463

 

[Tangodnzr]

I could be wrong, but I thought Pennington rode pine behind Testeverde for a couple of years, and then as soon as he started (due to injury), he lit it up. So, if you want to comapre McCown to Pennington from a development standpoint, McCown doesn't compare favorably.

You are correct in that.

The point being it took Chad, who was considered as much NFL ready as any young QB coming out of college, 3yrs + to start showing the consistancy needed.

Josh is just starting his 3rd year, and not only rode the pine but literally never saw the playing field until those last 4 games of last year.

Josh is progressing. Some of those who have their own agenda consistantly overlook that in their rush to prove their genius in predicting his failure.


Edited to add: Plus Josh had Geep Chryst as QB coach, and Jerry Sullivan as OC to "mentor" him last year.

 

[This_Guy]

Tango, Clif, and Rats,

Please put the McCown kool-aid down for a second. You are all reaching and reaching really far.

It is perfectly acceptable to say that you like McCown's potential and want to see him develop.

But to say that he has played well or gotten the job done to date is simply wrong, and to say that he is developing at any speed other than painfully slow is also incorrect.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Clif, stats aren't that hard to look up:

Rushing yards this season:

Cardinals: 528
Jaguars: 463

Guess clif will make up some other excuse to excuse mcclown. Not even worth trying to get some people to look at the situation objectively.

 

[CaptTurbo]

You are correct in that.

The point being it took Chad, who was considered as much NFL ready as any young QB coming out of college, 3yrs + to start showing the consistancy needed.

Josh is just starting his 3rd year, and not only rode the pine but literally never saw the playing field until those last 4 games of last year.
. [/COLOR] [/B]

hmm your flip flopping has me confused

ok so game 1 in the 3rd year of McCown and Penningtons career who had what experience? Sounds to me both had the same and Pennington came out flying while Josh is still in the womb.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Tango, Clif, and Rats,

Please put the McCown kool-aid down for a second. You are all reaching and reaching really far.

It is perfectly acceptable to say that you like McCown's potential and want to see him develop.

But to say that he has played well or gotten the job done to date is simply wrong, and to say that he is developing at any speed other than painfully slow is also incorrect.

yeah, sure uh huh. And of course Shaun King is the savior reincarnate.

 

[clif]

Clif, stats aren't that hard to look up:

Rushing yards this season:

Cardinals: 528
Jaguars: 463

it all about being a consistent threat...pariah.... the run game has been pretty non existent except for one game..

when it would have counted most the cards did not have it, so now people want to proclaim that Josh is not the answer without taking into account the whole picture.

The jags have a RB who rushed for over 1500 yards last year....so he is certainly a threat that has to be accounted for... the cards dont have that.

 

[This_Guy]

yeah, sure uh huh. And of course Shaun King is the savior reincarnate.

Whether he is or isn't is irrelevant to how wrong you are in this thread.

Got credibility?

 

[Pariah]

it all about being a consistent threat...pariah.... the run game has been pretty non existent except for one game..

when it would have counted most the cards did not have it, so now people want to proclaim that Josh is not the answer without taking into account the whole picture.

The jags have a RB who rushed for over 1500 yards last year....so he is certainly a threat that has to be accounted for... the cards dont have that.

The jags have been fairly abysmal in the run game this year--that's the only thing that's been consistent for them.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah I am wrong about "fellow Seminoles" but I see it as dubious only in that you would use this quote out of context to try and pile on Josh even though Sundays losss is not his fault. Your quote was and I am paraphrasing that you are and others are now seeing what Quan might have meant in his quote. I say you haven't changed your position at all. You always had a bias against the Kid but now is your chance to invent reasons that this loss was Joshs fault and that some how his performence was not good enough therefore we lose and Greeen shouldn't have gone with him and won't stick with him...blah, blah, blah......Russ it is your same old song and dance my friend. You wanted a different QB. DG said Josh is the guy for the forseeable future and now at every opportunity or percieved one you and others invent reasons the Kid shouldn't be under center. And the reason? You didn't get Ben or Eli or Blake got cut....Josh got the starting Job...and hasn't lost it by his play on the field. He is a work in progress and he has made strides. I am sorry that you can't or refuse to see that.

I didn't want Eli, I understand why he cut Blake, IMHO he felt Blake would be a bad backup because BLake wouldn't do what King is doing and say hey this is a tough business you're going to have bad days I understand what Josh is going through blah blah. Blake would say what he said about Jake "if I played that badly for that long I'd be out of the league." Blake is too outspoken, Green doesn't like players who speak their minds like that, he felt Blake was a bad fit, I'm fine with it. I feel if given an open competition, Blake would have beaten him out, but Blake is even less of a long term solution than King because of his age.

You only get so many chances to take a franchise QB, we've passed on one 2 years in a row, I don't know how many more chances we'll get and frankly I don't WANT a bunch more chances because that means a lot more losing years.

 

[This_Guy]

it all about being a consistent threat...pariah.... the run game has been pretty non existent except for one game..

when it would have counted most the cards did not have it, so now people want to proclaim that Josh is not the answer without taking into account the whole picture.

The jags have a RB who rushed for over 1500 yards last year....so he is certainly a threat that has to be accounted for... the cards dont have that.

That must be the biggest stretch I've seen yet.

So the Jags running back had a good year last year, and that means that they have a running threat this year? Jeez, the Cards have the all-time rushing leader...he just isn't doing it this year.

 

[Tangodnzr]

hmm your flip flopping has me confused

ok so game 1 in the 3rd year of McCown and Penningtons career who had what experience? Sounds to me both had the same and Pennington came out flying while Josh is still in the womb.

Once again you continue to talk out your backside.

Last year was Pennington's 4th year in the league.

In his 3rd year, 2002, the Jets stared out 1-5 (also 2-6) before they started to win a little more consistantly. !!!!!!!!!

 

[clif]

Guess clif will make up some other excuse to excuse mcclown. Not even worth trying to get some people to look at the situation objectively.

Do you think that josh would not benefit from a better run game?

 

[CaptTurbo]

Once again you continue to talk out your backside.

Last year was Pennington's 4th year in the league.

In his 3rd year, 2002, the Jets stared out 1-5 (also 2-6) before they started to win a little more consistantly. !!!!!!!!!

How am I talking out my backside. I said I was confused on the situation and asked for clarification.

ok so then we can expect playoffs. since Pennington is good and McClown is good I shoudl expect McClown to take off like Pennington then?

 

[This_Guy]

I didn't want Eli, I understand why he cut Blake, IMHO he felt Blake would be a bad backup because BLake wouldn't do what King is doing and say hey this is a tough business you're going to have bad days I understand what Josh is going through blah blah. Blake would say what he said about Jake "if I played that badly for that long I'd be out of the league." Blake is too outspoken, Green doesn't like players who speak their minds like that, he felt Blake was a bad fit, I'm fine with it. I feel if given an open competition, Blake would have beaten him out, but Blake is even less of a long term solution than King because of his age.

You only get so many chances to take a franchise QB, we've passed on one 2 years in a row, I don't know how many more chances we'll get and frankly I don't WANT a bunch more chances because that means a lot more losing years.

Russ,

The Blake/King comparison is sort of on point, but not entirely. Blake certainly wouldn't have sat through this without saying he wanted to be the starter. King came to Arizona specifically because he thinks he's better than McCown, but came with the understanding that McCown would have the uncontested first shot. King is a classy guy.

Green does view King as a potential answer and if you think that's not the case you are mistaken. I guess I just thought by now the McCown experiment would be over, and I know King did too.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Do you think that josh would not benefit from a better run game?

Would our QB benefit froma better run game? Yes. Will mccown? No. You cant coach up stupidity. I dont mean to be callous to him. He may be a great guy but he does not have a football mind.

He will not be starting in 2 years. Probably 1.

Ill bet anyone on that ANY amount of money.

 

[Tangodnzr]

How am I talking out my backside. I said I was confused on the situation and asked for clarification.

ok so then we can expect playoffs. since Pennington is good and McClown is good I shoudl expect McClown to take off like Pennington then?

Yeah you actually might try it, just to try something different for a change.

...and you accuse ME of "flip flopping".

Amazing, simply amazing !!!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Yeah you actually might try it, just to try something different for a change.

ok tango, ill be back once you find out Josh cant carry Chad's jockstrap. Which will be proven what shall we say? 2-8 will be beyond anything the jets did in Chads 3rd year? ok we will go with week 10 and compare records. 2002 jets and 2004 cards.