The Reality of Josh McCown - and other musings . . .

[This_Guy]

Once again you continue to talk out your backside.

Last year was Pennington's 4th year in the league.

In his 3rd year, 2002, the Jets stared out 1-5 (also 2-6) before they started to win a little more consistantly. !!!!!!!!!

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should just keep your mouth shut before you have to put your foot in it.

The Jets started off 1-4 with Vinny before he got hurt, and the Jets went 8-3 with Pennington the rest of the way. And that was in his 3rd season.

 

[clif]

That must be the biggest stretch I've seen yet.

So the Jags running back had a good year last year, and that means that they have a running threat this year? Jeez, the Cards have the all-time rushing leader...he just isn't doing it this year.

so your take is that since it was last year... he is no longer a threat?

your bias is ridiculous... you refuse to ignore what has been proven time and time again..... you need the threat of a running game to take the pressure off the QB... that is my argument.

who knows if josh is the man or not, but you can't make a jugdement based on what we got now.

 

[CaptTurbo]

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should just keep your mouth shut before you have to put your foot in it.

The Jets started off 1-4 with Vinny before he got hurt, and the Jets went 8-3 with Pennington the rest of the way. And that was in his 3rd season.

oh damn tango. You just got dissed.

Well anyone that tries to compare Pennington and McClown deserves it LOL

 

[CaptTurbo]

who knows if josh is the man or not, but you can't make a jugdement based on what we got now.

And we are sure you wont have enough to make a judgement after 16 games either. youll come up with some excuse. Youll say well he had no running game all year so lets blow a whole new season and waste it on continuing to try to prove he is good.

Ill ask ask. WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH? What week will the noobie syndrome be done or overused?

 

[clif]

The jags have been fairly abysmal in the run game this year--that's the only thing that's been consistent for them.

and so has leftwich... he isnt tearing it up either....

 

[SECTION 11]

you need the threat of a running game to take the pressure off the QB... that is my argument.

Unless you're San Francisco, then all you need is a quarterback.

 

[Russ Smith]

Try this for size: try comparing Josh's development to Pennington's. It basically took him 3 years + to start really living up to his "potential", even Leftwich, your golden boy, although progressing, isn't exactly leading the Jags to an undefeated season.

And I do indeed think its still a little premature to start pimping Roth as an instant success in the NFL. My bet is, you'll still seem some more growing pains out of him too.

Because there are obvious reasons why I think Leftwich and ben are going to be better than JOsh, and so does EVERY team in the NFL(or they wouldn't have passed on Josh 2 and 3 times in the same draft).

Pennington sat behind a veteran, and when he played, he played well IMMEDIATELY. 22 td's 6 picks 104 QB rating in his first full year of playing, year 3 in the NFL. Pennington had a 100+ passer rating in the first four starts of his NFL career 5of the first 6 and a 99 rating in his 7th, this was a guy that was brought along slowly and when he was ready, he was ready. Josh was brought along just as slowly, got some PT last year, and still isn't close to ready to hit the ground running.

Leftwich started slowly, it's his 2nd year and he's already accomplished more than Josh, as badly as he's played with the game on the line he's been able to give his WR's a chance to make plays to win games. he has a rocket arm himself, he's accurate, he sees the field, he's going to be extremely good.

Ben will struggle the next 3 games, Dallas, NE and Philly, 3 of the better defenses around. Nobody is saying he's a Pro Bowl QB yet but again, he hit the ground running. for every mistake he makes, and there have been many, he's making big plays.

Let's put it this way, after this year Josh is either going to get a new contract here, or elsewhere, does anybody on this board really think he'll get anywhere near as much money as Ben or Leftwich? Why not?

 

[clif]

And we are sure you wont have enough to make a judgement after 16 games either. youll come up with some excuse. Youll say well he had no running game all year so lets blow a whole new season and waste it on continuing to try to prove he is good.

Ill ask ask. WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH? What week will the noobie syndrome be done or overused?

check my previous posts before you claim I will come up with excuses.... I have said from day one that he needs to be given a full year.... and when that time comes (after game 16 this year ) and he is not the difference maker, then I have no problem with the team going in a different direction.

 

[clif]

Unless you're San Francisco, then all you need is a quarterback.

exception to the rule and you know that

 

[Tangodnzr]

Boy you two are so desperate that you will grasp at any little straw you can.

My point still remains that Josh is just starting his 3rd year. He was considered an athletic "project" from the day he was drafted.

On normal NFL time scale, he's progressing as he would be expected to, especially given the circumstances he's been exposed to.

A whacko, a Shaun King groupie, and a few other biased board junkies posting to the contrary, Josh hasn't played nearly as bad as that little group of misfits keep insinuating.

 

[Russ Smith]

You are correct in that.

The point being it took Chad, who was considered as much NFL ready as any young QB coming out of college, 3yrs + to start showing the consistancy needed.

Josh is just starting his 3rd year, and not only rode the pine but literally never saw the playing field until those last 4 games of last year.

Josh is progressing. Some of those who have their own agenda consistantly overlook that in their rush to prove their genius in predicting his failure.


Edited to add: Plus Josh had Geep Chryst as QB coach, and Jerry Sullivan as OC to "mentor" him last year.

Tango, Pennington threw 25 passes in his first 2 NFL seasons, Josh 184, so you can't seriously be saying that Josh in his 3rd year was less ready to start than Chad solely on playing time, he had almost 8 times as much PT his first 2 years as Chad did.

Pennington took over in year 3 too.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Unless you're San Francisco, then all you need is a quarterback.

LOL

oh btw looked up Penningtons stats. He went 8-3 as his first year as a starter and ignited an offense that wasnt really scoring much and put up huge numbers.

hmmm almost a polar opposite of McCown. In fact McCown has the same, a little less of the scoring as the guy who was benched for pennington lol

 

[clif]

does anybody on this board really think he'll get anywhere near as much money as Ben or Leftwich? Why not?

no... because he was not a first round pick, and the cards wont pay 3 players top level money which they would have to do with josh, quan, and fitz.

 

[This_Guy]

and so has leftwich... he isnt tearing it up either....

I'm almost dumbfounded on this one.

1) Leftwich has led TWO game winning drives this season. McCown = 0
2) Leftwich has 2 300 yard passing games this season- McCown's "breakout" game against the worst defense in the league netted him 231 yards.
3) Leftwich has more VICTORIES this season than McCown does in his 7 starts spread across 2 seasons.
4) Your claim that the Jaguars have a running game is FACTUALLY INCORRECT, since the Cardinals have more rushing yards.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Boy you two are so desperate that you will grasp at any little straw you can.

My point still remains that Josh is just starting his 3rd year. He was considered an athletic "project" from the day he was drafted.

On normal NFL time scale, he's progressing as he would be expected to, especially given the circumstances he's been exposed to.

A whacko, a Shaun King groupie, and a few other biased board junkies posting to the contrary, Josh hasn't played nearly as bad as that little group of misfits keep insinuating.

But oh wow your proven worng time and time again about Pennington....so i guess you better run from that comparison.... straw grasper!!!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Because there are obvious reasons why I think Leftwich and ben are going to be better than JOsh, and so does EVERY team in the NFL(or they wouldn't have passed on Josh 2 and 3 times in the same draft).

Pennington sat behind a veteran, and when he played, he played well IMMEDIATELY. 22 td's 6 picks 104 QB rating in his first full year of playing, year 3 in the NFL. Pennington had a 100+ passer rating in the first four starts of his NFL career 5of the first 6 and a 99 rating in his 7th, this was a guy that was brought along slowly and when he was ready, he was ready. Josh was brought along just as slowly, got some PT last year, and still isn't close to ready to hit the ground running.

Leftwich started slowly, it's his 2nd year and he's already accomplished more than Josh, as badly as he's played with the game on the line he's been able to give his WR's a chance to make plays to win games. he has a rocket arm himself, he's accurate, he sees the field, he's going to be extremely good.

Ben will struggle the next 3 games, Dallas, NE and Philly, 3 of the better defenses around. Nobody is saying he's a Pro Bowl QB yet but again, he hit the ground running. for every mistake he makes, and there have been many, he's making big plays.

Let's put it this way, after this year Josh is either going to get a new contract here, or elsewhere, does anybody on this board really think he'll get anywhere near as much money as Ben or Leftwich? Why not?

Russ, you seem to contrdict your own "take" here.

You cite how great Pennington's 3rd year was...by the time it was in the books.

Yet you and a few others seem unwilling to give Josh that same leeway.

I agree totally, if Josh has not proven to be the long term answer by the end of this year....THEN it will be time to figure out an alternative route to go with the QB.

But not until then. All the rest of this diss Josh crap is just that, and highly premature.

 

[Russ Smith]

Once again you continue to talk out your backside.

Last year was Pennington's 4th year in the league.

In his 3rd year, 2002, the Jets stared out 1-5 (also 2-6) before they started to win a little more consistantly. !!!!!!!!!

2-4 actually and Testaverde started the first 4 games not Chad. Chad won 5 of his first 7 starts and again he had a rating over 100 in most of those games, even the ones they lost. He was an immediate and clear improvement over Vinnie, they scored only 13 points total in the 3 losses prior to his first start, and then averaged nearly 30 in Chad's first 7 starts.

 

[Pariah]

Do you think that josh would not benefit from a better run game?

Of course he would, but that wasn't the point you were trying to make, is it? You were trying to point out that all the other young QBs are getting it done with something that josh doesn't have. That's not true--Leftwich is getting it done with a worse run game.

 

[CaptTurbo]

no... because he was not a first round pick, and the cards wont pay 3 players top level money which they would have to do with josh, quan, and fitz.

omg if he played at that level of course they would. omg Im speechless. lol

Would the cards sign Joe Montana in his prime righ tnow. "no we have too much invested in Fitz and Q." LOL a JOKE of an answer. Of course they would. He wont get paid because he isnt performing on the level to get paid like that.

Brady got his due, perform and you get yours. Look at Q. Perform and you get yours.

Ill buy my next life insurance policy from McCown. Bank on it.

 

[This_Guy]

But oh wow your proven worng time and time again about Pennington....so i guess you better run from that comparison.... straw grasper!!!

No kidding.

Drop the Pennington comparisons, because it makes McCown look bad.

For that matter, so does comparisons to most young QBs in the league.

 

[ajcardfan]

no... because he was not a first round pick, and the cards wont pay 3 players top level money which they would have to do with josh, quan, and fitz.

He will be a restricted free agent which means other teams will be able to make big offers to him if they want to.

 

[Russ Smith]

and so has leftwich... he isnt tearing it up either....

But he's won 2 games late with a big play when they needed it. Not all on him that catch by Wilford was sick, but when they needed ONE PLAY, he made it, when we need one play, Josh takes a sack.

That's the difference.

 

[Rats]

I didn't want Eli, I understand why he cut Blake, IMHO he felt Blake would be a bad backup because BLake wouldn't do what King is doing and say hey this is a tough business you're going to have bad days I understand what Josh is going through blah blah. Blake would say what he said about Jake "if I played that badly for that long I'd be out of the league." Blake is too outspoken, Green doesn't like players who speak their minds like that, he felt Blake was a bad fit, I'm fine with it. I feel if given an open competition, Blake would have beaten him out, but Blake is even less of a long term solution than King because of his age.

You only get so many chances to take a franchise QB, we've passed on one 2 years in a row, I don't know how many more chances we'll get and frankly I don't WANT a bunch more chances because that means a lot more losing years.

Russ, now this I can agree with. An honest opinion without playing the blame game or spinning how Josh lost us the game on Sunday or at the very least didn't "Win" it with 59 secs to go. You are correct you only get so many chances at a Franchise guy. DG modis operindi is that he doesn't need these guys and there contracts to be a successful team in the NFL. Josh is not one of these guys but has the potential to be very a good QB in this system. He is progressing and for those to say that they believed DG would coach up the KId...but now are saying they aren't seeing it after 5 games ....well they just don't understand the QB position in this system or as I contend they are biased because there choice isn't under center on Sunday so they pile on.

 

[Russ Smith]

no... because he was not a first round pick, and the cards wont pay 3 players top level money which they would have to do with josh, quan, and fitz.

And why were they first round picks and Josh wasn't? Because they had scouts convinced they would be ready to start and win games MUCH quicker than Josh, and that has been proven true so far in their careers.

Nobody is saying if you give Josh 4 years with Green he might not become another Delhomme type player, I'm saying we don't have that much time to make a decision on him, not if we want to win in the interim. He needed to play so we could see what he had, based on what I've seen he's not ready to play.

 

[clif]

I'm almost dumbfounded on this one.

1) Leftwich has led TWO game winning drives this season. McCown = 0
2) Leftwich has 2 300 yard passing games this season- McCown's "breakout" game against the worst defense in the league netted him 231 yards.
3) Leftwich has more VICTORIES this season than McCown does in his 7 starts spread across 2 seasons.
4) Your claim that the Jaguars have a running game is FACTUALLY INCORRECT, since the Cardinals have more rushing yards.

and the 2 games that he threw for over 300 yards..... the jags lost.