The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

GatorAZ

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McD talking today about the nonsense idea some put out there you must go doncic because bigs don't work today:

“People look at Golden State and say that but if you look at Anthony Davis and the impact he had with New Orleans, Joel Embiid and what he’s done for the Philadelphia 76ers, Clint Capela and the role he’s playing for Houston ... the special ones are valuable. The unique freaks, which Ayton and Bamba and Bagley and some of these guys are, there aren’t too many guys in the world 6-10 to 7-1 with that kind of skill, athleticism and coordination.

“I get generally that’s the trend but I think there are a few exceptions and I think some of the guys in the draft are going to be those freak players.”

That's basically the exact same case I made responding to someone yesterday. and if first names he thinks of are anthony davis and joel embiid, that's a good sign as to how strong his feelings are towards ayton


If gambo starts getting less sure in the upcoming weeks, then I'll get nervous. I'm guessing gambo's source is pretty high in the suns, pretty good chance it is sarver himself.

Also this is where sarver's penny pinching is a plus, he's going to see ayton as bigger box office and drawing more season tickets.

Gambo used to be Sarver’s mouthpiece but I’m not sure how connected he is anymore. It did seem interesting that he went in 100% on Ayton and starting slamming Doncic’s character right after the lottery. Not that he has to go overboard in convincing everyone Ayton is the right guy.
 

Cheesebeef

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I took "year" as a "season". Either way, same minutes, same team/ lack of scorers, Doncic could absolutely put up the same numbers, and he is much younger. I get it, dude, you don't like Doncic, and that's fine, but the kid is a consensus number two pick in a loaded draft for a reason.

Jesus... actually, you don't get it because if I say ANYTHING counter to your praise of Doncic, you automatically project a stupid argument on to me, like you just did above.

I've said MULTIPLE TIMES if we got the 2nd pick, I'd lean Doncic also. But I also don't see how he's already better than Josh when Josh has put up really good numbers in the NBA that Doncic hasn't proven the ability to do so.

And remember, JJ was a consensus top 4 pick in another VERY GOOD draft... AND he has PROVEN his ability to play in the league. Doncic hasn't. It's that simple. No matter what caveat you want to put on Josh and no matter what argument you WISH I was making.

He can play. Hell, Bogdanovic put up 12, 3, and 3 in Sacramento in 28-ish minutes per game with fewer shot attempts. I like JJ, but his season was not some equivalent of Booker.

You'd have a really good point here... if I EVER compared him to Booker. All I did was provide numbers for Josh in the second half. Numbers I think Doncic (and MOST rookies) would be hard pressed to put up, no matter the circumstance.

Please, just stick to the facts or arguments I made and respond to those instead of making up ones that suit your defiance of anything or anyone that doesn't worship at the feet of Doncic.

As for Igor, of course he is going to talk about Doncic, because he is the one he is familiar with. He even remarked on how he is not a scout and can't speak to the others. His answer was completely reasonable. He knows Doncic. He does not know Ayton because it's not his job to know Ayton.

It's not his job to know Ayton? You're kidding right. He's the coach of the team that has one of the highest picks in the draft. It's ABSOLUTELY his job to know one of the guys that's going to be one of the top picks in a draft we have a great shot of winning. And he's been off from the Jazz for over a week, which is PLENTY of time to start watching tape and at least start to form an opinion. Now, if he wasn't asked that question, fine, but the idea that he can't speak to anyone else but Doncic at this point really doesn't make sense.
 

JCSunsfan

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Jesus... actually, you don't get it because if I say ANYTHING counter to your praise of Doncic, you automatically project a stupid argument on to me, like you just did above.

I've said MULTIPLE TIMES if we got the 2nd pick, I'd lean Doncic also. But I also don't see how he's already better than Josh when Josh has put up really good numbers in the NBA that Doncic hasn't proven the ability to do so.

And remember, JJ was a consensus top 4 pick in another VERY GOOD draft... AND he has PROVEN his ability to play in the league. Doncic hasn't. It's that simple. No matter what caveat you want to put on Josh and no matter what argument you WISH I was making.



You'd have a really good point here... if I EVER compared him to Booker. All I did was provide numbers for Josh in the second half. Numbers I think Doncic (and MOST rookies) would be hard pressed to put up, no matter the circumstance.

Please, just stick to the facts or arguments I made and respond to those instead of making up ones that suit your defiance of anything or anyone that doesn't worship at the feet of Doncic.



It's not his job to know Ayton? You're kidding right. He's the coach of the team that has one of the highest picks in the draft. It's ABSOLUTELY his job to know one of the guys that's going to be one of the top picks in a draft we have a great shot of winning. And he's been off from the Jazz for over a week, which is PLENTY of time to start watching tape and at least start to form an opinion. Now, if he wasn't asked that question, fine, but the idea that he can't speak to anyone else but Doncic at this point really doesn't make sense.

Just one difference here. Igor probably has not had time to work on the draft much. His season ended only a week ago. He deserves a rest. The draft is a month a way and he will have plenty of time to get acquainted with the options. What is probably taking his time right now is getting a staff together and meeting with existing players.
 
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If Doncic decides to stay in Europe for another year, which is questionable right now, could he wait to enter the draft? If he stayed another year in Europe he would become to the favorite for the 2019 draft, so long as he continues to play at the same level he is now. Since he's a European player I'm not sure if there are any rules for him to enter the draft at a certain age or time, being so far removed from turning 18 or something.

I know the odds of the Suns getting him then would be slim but it could work in our favor if he waits to enter the draft for another year because he could slip compared to the other prospects and be available when the Suns pick, which will probably be between 9 & 14. It could be easier to move up next year also without the high number of potential superstars like this draft has.
 

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If Doncic decides to stay in Europe for another year, which is questionable right now, could he wait to enter the draft? If he stayed another year in Europe he would become to the favorite for the 2019 draft, so long as he continues to play at the same level he is now. Since he's a European player I'm not sure if there are any rules for him to enter the draft at a certain age or time, being so far removed from turning 18 or something.

I know the odds of the Suns getting him then would be slim but it could work in our favor if he waits to enter the draft for another year because he could slip compared to the other prospects and be available when the Suns pick, which will probably be between 9 & 14. It could be easier to move up next year also without the high number of potential superstars like this draft has.

Poop you need to stop this Doncic fantasy...it's not healthy. Can't get him bro...can't happen ...won't happen. :oops:
 

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Doncic isn't waiting, he was all in... until Sacramento got the 2nd pick. This is "I don't want to be in Sacramento" saber rattling. It sucks for the Kings, their fans at least, and thank god we have Booker, because I think he gives us a TON of legitimacy among younger guys. And I don't think Doncic is as self destructive and stupid as the Ball family, it seems he does not want to be with the Kings, but I doubt he'd refuse the next few teams in line.

Doncic will be in the NBA next year, we don't have the ammo to trade up for him, at least for the cost any of us are willing to consider. The sooner this particular conversation dies the better.
 

pokerface

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Doncic isn't waiting, he was all in... until Sacramento got the 2nd pick. This is "I don't want to be in Sacramento" saber rattling. It sucks for the Kings, their fans at least, and thank god we have Booker, because I think he gives us a TON of legitimacy among younger guys. And I don't think Doncic is as self destructive and stupid as the Ball family, it seems he does not want to be with the Kings, but I doubt he'd refuse the next few teams in line.

Doncic will be in the NBA next year, we don't have the ammo to trade up for him, at least for the cost any of us are willing to consider. The sooner this particular conversation dies the better.


Doncic=done
 

TJ

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Ayton is an absolute lock for number one. There is no way we will pass on him. We can debate until we are blue in the face but the fact is, Ayton is bigger, more exciting to watch, has a home town connection, fills a position of need and will sell more tickets. Doncic would have to be a clearly superior player to be picked ahead of Ayton and he is not.

I'm not a huge Doncic fan like some on the board but there are some curious events developing. The coach connection, Gambo thrashing his mental state that seemed to come from nowhere, his agent and now some doubt whether he will come over. It all seems a bit curious.

Out of curiosity, if Doncic refuses to come to the NBA next season could he be picked at 16 and left in Europe for a year?

Yes, you could draft-and-stash Doncic.

The only reason Ayton isn’t the consensus #1 overall is because of Igor’s relationship with Doncic. Had we’ve hired Fizdale, the only debate is about what number he’d wear in Phoenix. Logic says it should be Ayton. For me, the kicker is the dude really wants to be here and has been talking about it all offseason. That’s refreshing to hear because the last 8 years or so have been hell.
 

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It's not his job to know Ayton? You're kidding right. He's the coach of the team that has one of the highest picks in the draft. It's ABSOLUTELY his job to know one of the guys that's going to be one of the top picks in a draft we have a great shot of winning. And he's been off from the Jazz for over a week, which is PLENTY of time to start watching tape and at least start to form an opinion. Now, if he wasn't asked that question, fine, but the idea that he can't speak to anyone else but Doncic at this point really doesn't make sense.

You’re wrong here. As an assistant coach for the jazz it was not his job to know about prospects. He just happens to know about Doncic because he coached him internationally. That’s the reason he and Doncic keep coming up together. That’s the reason interviewers are honed in on it. He’s been head coach for what, 2-3 weeks? And we’ve had the #1 pick for what, a couple days? I’m sure Igor will get more up to speed on all prospects but to expect him to be immediately so is dumb, and to fail to recognize why all press is swirling around he and Doncic is just being purposefully obtuse.
 

Covert Rain

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Embiid is the only center in the top 25 in scoring in the NBA. There are only 3 PF in the top 25. I think the league has shifted because there are no Ewing, Shaq, Olajuwon and Robinson types in the league playing at the same time.

So you either adjust your game to get after it or wait around.

To suggest those players wouldn’t be the same players today is ludicrous. I guarantee that Pop for example would trade a three for an Admiral high percentage shot all day long.

If you think Ayton is the next coming!? No way you can pass on him. I have no clue if that is what he will become but that’s what the Suns need to decide.
 
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Cheesebeef

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You’re wrong here. As an assistant coach for the jazz it was not his job to know about prospects. He just happens to know about Doncic because he coached him internationally. That’s the reason he and Doncic keep coming up together. That’s the reason interviewers are honed in on it. He’s been head coach for what, 2-3 weeks? And we’ve had the #1 pick for what, a couple days? I’m sure Igor will get more up to speed on all prospects but to expect him to be immediately so is dumb, and to fail to recognize why all press is swirling around he and Doncic is just being purposefully obtuse.

Sorry... it’s really not a stretch that Igor literally has no opinion on Ayton at this point. He doesn’t have to know him as well as Doncic but the idea he’s not up to speed at all on the possible first pick in the draft that the team has the best chance of getting? Yeah, I think that’s a joke.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Sorry... it’s really not a stretch that Igor literally has no opinion on Ayton at this point. He doesn’t have to know him as well as Doncic but the idea he’s not up to speed at all on the possible first pick in the draft that the team has the best chance of getting? Yeah, I think that’s a joke.
And I think that makes you likely completely out of touch with the realities of being a nba assistant coach. His team was just bounced from the playoffs and he has to set up a staff, get acquainted with the front office, do media stuff, and all even with all that he never said he doesn’t know anything about Ayton, but it’s safe to assume he might not know much and a smart person doesn’t speak in a topic on which they don’t feel prepared . . . PARTICULARLY to the press, and PARTICULARLY if he’s not being asked about him.

I’m not saying Igor doesn’t have an affinity for Doncic. But you’re seeing ghosts...
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Sorry... it’s really not a stretch that Igor literally has no opinion on Ayton at this point. He doesn’t have to know him as well as Doncic but the idea he’s not up to speed at all on the possible first pick in the draft that the team has the best chance of getting? Yeah, I think that’s a joke.
...and you’re a dumb idiot.










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SirStefan32

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Yeah, I think the only difference between us and Igor is that he knows what he doesn't know, while we tend to think we know a lot more than we do. An assistant coach for a non-lottery team will have no more clue about potential top-3 picks than we do. The difference is that he knows it, and we don't.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yeah, I think the only difference between us and Igor is that he knows what he doesn't know, while we tend to think we know a lot more than we do. An assistant coach for a non-lottery team will have no more clue about potential top-3 picks than we do. The difference is that he knows it, and we don't.

Lol... now Igor and US have the same knowledge of Ayton?

This is becoming more laughable by the moment.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Lol... now Igor and US have the same knowledge of Ayton?

This is becoming more laughable by the moment.
Seriously? I think it’s not only reasonable, but likely, that a bunch of fans, who watch a ton of hoops, and who know they are gunning for a top pick, have watched MANY more college games of prospects than an assistant coach for a playoff team in the middle of a nba season.

By draft day Igor will know more than us, but at present I think we actually likely have a leg up. You think Igor was watching every Oklahoma, Duke, Arizona, MSU, Real Madrid, Texas, Alabama game during the season? You think he’s watched all the highlight YouTube’s of all these players during the season? Of players he would likely have no idea he might someday coach while he was coaching a PLAYOFF team (aka, a team that wouldn’t be drafting high enough to likely target these kids) during the season? You think he scouted these players already? Why? Because he’s a scout? Uh no, that’s why team hire SCOUTS and have a GM. He was an assistant coach. He was working with players, likely breaking down opposing teams, and working on game plans with Snyder. He wasn’t scouting. That’s not his job. And remember it’s widely accepted that pro coaches eat, sleep, and drink coaching. You think in all his extra hours he’s watching college hoops with an eye towards likely becoming the head coach of a team likely to draft one of those players? You’re digging yourself a hole with a sign that reads “Here lies Stupid” at the top.
 

Cheesebeef

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Seriously? I think it’s not only reasonable, but likely, that a bunch of fans, who watch a ton of hoops, and who know they are gunning for a top pick, have watched MANY more college games of prospects than an assistant coach for a playoff team in the middle of a nba season.

By draft day Igor will know more than us, but at present I think we actually likely have a leg up. You think Igor was watching every Oklahoma, Duke, Arizona, MSU, Real Madrid, Texas, Alabama game during the season? You think he’s watched all the highlight YouTube’s of all these players during the season? Of players he would likely have no idea he might someday coach while he was coaching a PLAYOFF team (aka, a team that wouldn’t be drafting high enough to likely target these kids) during the season? You think he scouted these players already? Why? Because he’s a scout? Uh no, that’s why team hire SCOUTS and have a GM. He was an assistant coach. He was working with players, likely breaking down opposing teams, and working on game plans with Snyder. He wasn’t scouting. That’s not his job. And remember it’s widely accepted that pro coaches eat, sleep, and drink coaching. You think in all his extra hours he’s watching college hoops with an eye towards likely becoming the head coach of a team likely to draft one of those players? You’re digging yourself a hole with a sign that reads “Here lies Stupid” at the top.

Okay... let me this real simple. Let's say you've always wanted to be THE top dog at an Employee Benefits Company. It's been your dream job for decades. Everything you've done to this point in your career has been to get that dream job and then you get a call from 1 of only 30 companies in the world that you'd want to work for... and they're looking at YOU to right the ship, but they are facing a MASSIVE decision... a decision that has a couple different options as far as ways to be successful. Are you telling me that you'd walk into that interview (mind you... it's the ONLY interview you've EVER gotten for that position) and when they asked you which way you'd go, you'd say:

"You know what? That's a good question. I haven't really thought about it all that much."

NO FREAKING WAY. Going into the biggest interview of your life, for one of the most prestigious jobs in the world and getting only ONE shot at it, I KNOW you would have prepped for not only what the company has done in the past but you would be able to talk the positives and negatives of every option on the table for the company moving forward.

Our lotto pick is A FRANCHISE DEFINING move. We stunk all year just to get it. To think a HC candidate would come in and wouldn't be versed on every scenario in the top 4, the strengths and weakness of the top tier players in the draft had and how they'd fit into his coaching philosophy makes zero sense.

So, yes... the moment his agent called him and said you have a shot at your dream job and the biggest decision facing that franchise was going to be the lottery, you'd HAVE to start looking into how to solve that problem because there's no WAY it doesn't come up in the interview.

Think of this another way... take The Batman Franchise with Chris Nolan. The franchise was in complete tatters after Batman And Robyn. WB hadn't made a Batman movie in 8 years after that disaster but it was time get it back up and running. So the studio executives reach out to young up and coming directors to get their pitches and ideas about who they could possibly see playing The Dark Knight. Chris Nolan's agent gets the call... WB wants to interview him!.

Now, up to Batman Begins, he had made Memento and Insomnia, right? Warner's loves his pitch for the world, how it'll function. Then they get to the most important question for any franchise. They've got a couple young actors who they really like... say Christian Bale, Jake Gyllenhaal and Josh Hartnett (all of whom were in the running). Who would be your number one pick for Batman? Do you think when asked that, Chris Nolan said... well, gee... I like Guy Pearce and worked with him but haven't given much thought to the others and haven't seen them in anything.

The draft is the biggest question the Suns franchise has faced since FA back in 2004. To think that a head coaching candidate wouldn't be prepared to talk all angles of it seems wildly unrealistic.

And AFTER he got the job, HIS DREAM, that he wouldn't spend every waking minute of his free time preparing for that dream seems even more unrealistic. Remember, coaches, head coaches or asst. eat, sleep and drink basketball. When finally faced with the ability to be captain of his ship, to think he wouldn't be prepping for that while simultaneously riding out his own job feels incredibly myopic.

There's no way you'd ever walk into an interview for your dream job and be unprepared to answer the biggest question facing the company you were interviewing for. You're smarter than that and I would hope our new coach was too.
 
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Chaplin

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I think Cheese has a good point. Igor has to have SOME familiarity with Ayton by now. It's not like he has to know about 20 different kids at this point because we have the #1 and there really are 5 players AT MOST that he needs to be familiar with, and one of those he most definitely is.

On the other hand, does he really need to volunteer information at this point? He doesn't even have assistant coaches yet and it has been stated ad nauseum for a week now that Igor will have input but won't be making draft decisions. This all seems to be a big nothing burger at this point.
 

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i'm on board with considering Jackson a vital core of our rebuild
almost off the table.
we like him here for a number of reasons
but i'd bet just about every other nba fan in this country would vote to trade him for the Doncic pick without hesitation

to consider if it's a valid choice for us, ask yourself if you'd do it if you were Sacramento?
i don't think they would
so i won't bring it up again
 

Raindog

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Maybe we can all agree the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Igor probably didn't spend his past year diligently following the progress of all the top college prospects. But after it became likely he was getting the Suns job - and especially after he did - I am sure he got up to speed as quickly as possible on Ayton and everyone else we might have a chance of getting. I would have to believe he wouldn't be so foolish as to automatically assume we were taking Doncic no matter what, and then just get caught flat-footed when that became extremely unlikely.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Okay... let me this real simple. Let's say you've always wanted to be THE top dog at an Employee Benefits Company. It's been your dream job for decades. Everything you've done to this point in your career has been to get that dream job and then you get a call from 1 of only 30 companies in the world that you'd want to work for... and they're looking at YOU to right the ship, but they are facing a MASSIVE decision... a decision that has a couple different options as far as ways to be successful. Are you telling me that you'd walk into that interview (mind you... it's the ONLY interview you've EVER gotten for that position) and when they asked you which way you'd go, you'd say:

"You know what? That's a good question. I haven't really thought about it all that much."

NO FREAKING WAY. Going into the biggest interview of your life, for one of the most prestigious jobs in the world and getting only ONE shot at it, I KNOW you would have prepped for not only what the company has done in the past but you would be able to talk the positives and negatives of every option on the table for the company moving forward.

Our lotto pick is A FRANCHISE DEFINING move. We stunk all year just to get it. To think a HC candidate would come in and wouldn't be versed on every scenario in the top 4, the strengths and weakness of the top tier players in the draft had and how they'd fit into his coaching philosophy makes zero sense.

So, yes... the moment his agent called him and said you have a shot at your dream job and the biggest decision facing that franchise was going to be the lottery, you'd HAVE to start looking into how to solve that problem because there's no WAY it doesn't come up in the interview.

Think of this another way... take The Batman Franchise with Chris Nolan. The franchise was in complete tatters after Batman And Robyn. WB hadn't made a Batman movie in 8 years after that disaster but it was time get it back up and running. So the studio executives reach out to young up and coming directors to get their pitches and ideas about who they could possibly see playing The Dark Knight. Chris Nolan's agent gets the call... WB wants to interview him!.

Now, up to Batman Begins, he had made Memento and Insomnia, right? Warner's loves his pitch for the world, how it'll function. Then they get to the most important question for any franchise. They've got a couple young actors who they really like... say Christian Bale, Jake Gyllenhaal and Josh Hartnett (all of whom were in the running). Who would be your number one pick for Batman? Do you think when asked that, Chris Nolan said... well, gee... I like Guy Pearce and worked with him but haven't given much thought to the others and haven't seen them in anything.

The draft is the biggest question the Suns franchise has faced since FA back in 2004. To think that a head coaching candidate wouldn't be prepared to talk all angles of it seems wildly unrealistic.

And AFTER he got the job, HIS DREAM, that he wouldn't spend every waking minute of his free time preparing for that dream seems even more unrealistic. Remember, coaches, head coaches or asst. eat, sleep and drink basketball. When finally faced with the ability to be captain of his ship, to think he wouldn't be prepping for that while simultaneously riding out his own job feels incredibly myopic.

There's no way you'd ever walk into an interview for your dream job and be unprepared to answer the biggest question facing the company you were interviewing for. You're smarter than that and I would hope our new coach was too.
You want simple, here’s simple:

HE INTERVIEWED FOR HEAD COACH. HE WAS HIRED AS COACH. HE WAS NOT INTERVIEWED AS GM OR PLAYER PERSONNEL. HE IS NOT GM OR PLAYER PERSONNEL.

If I were hiring a COACH literally ALL of my questions would center around COACHING and CULTURE and PHILOSOPHY. I HAVE a GM (or I AM the GM). If I even asked about the pending draft (a) I wouldn’t expect an assistant fresh out of the playoff to possess much information and (b) I would expect an answer of “I am looking forward to digging into the prospects alongside your front office and identifying the optimal candidate.” This isn’t Pop they hired. This isn’t Phil they hired. This is a first time head coach with very little power or persuasion. So there’s NO WAY the biggest question Sarver/McD asked was about the draft. That’s an idiotic statement. If anything the draft was a secondary question asked because Sarver and McD know THEY are making that decision.

And analogizing to a movie is plain stupid. You know full well that your industry doesn’t operate even slightly similarly to ANY other industry. And you think WB expects Nolan to be well-versed on every potential candidate?!? That’s absurd. Once they hire him they likely engage in that conversation and if he needs to learn about the candidates he does so, but not in the front end.

And your analogy for MY industry is literally the dumbest argument you made, even moreso for its fumbling lack of specificity. (A) if I don’t know what my actual options are beforehand I can’t appropriately prepare, (B) if I know someone else at that company is tasked with that specific responsibility no way do I step on their toes, and (C) the best answer in an interview is NEVER an off-the-cuff answer but rather “that’s a good question. I want to provide you a thorough answer, let me dive into with a little time and get back to - but if you want a limited answer . . . “. And we have no idea if that’s what Igor did. We aren’t saying he knows NOTHING about Ayton (which seems to be your now current position - arguing that we believe he knows nothing about Ayton, which was never our position). We are saying his knowledge is likely much more limited regarding ALL prospects than it is Doncic and thus he’s reticent to discuss (or more likely hasn’t even been directly asked) any of the others in greater detail until he’s more proficient. I know that blurting out whatever's in your head without thinking has always been YOUR MO, but other professionals typical take a more measured thinking approach.

Oh, and you didn’t address any of the points I made. Good job doing exactly what you lambast others for doing.
 

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