The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

[Hoop Head]

What if your "threat" tips the scales and they draft Ayton KNOWING that there was a better player?

I feel strongly about Ayton being the better choice for us (over Doncic). But if I had the power, I'd fire everyone in the front office for taking my advice over that of the professionals that have analyzed these guys inside and out.

I highly doubt my "threat" would tip the scales but if it did, I'd purchase a ticket package like many others would. If they took someone other than Ayton, they'd call me and tell me why they did that.

How would we know that there is someone much better than Ayton available they passed on? It wouldn't come out until the season had started and I'd already bought tickets. I don't think there is a better prospect or fit than Ayton in this draft but if they felt there was they'd probably make that pick and try to make it right with people like me who made my intentions known. I've talked about the state of the franchise with sales reps a few times in the past, they've discussed tanking and how struggling now will be worth it for the financial flexibility and draft position in the future. Their sales team is quite knowledgable, I've learned speaking with them over the years, so I'm not too concerned either way but I, like others, don't want to see them try to outsmart themselves in this draft. They need to take the best option and it's virtually unanimous that the best pick at #1 is Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I highly doubt my "threat" would tip the scales but if it did, I'd purchase a ticket package like many others would. If they took someone other than Ayton, they'd call me and tell me why they did that.

How would we know that there is someone much better than Ayton available they passed on? It wouldn't come out until the season had started and I'd already bought tickets. I don't think there is a better prospect or fit than Ayton in this draft but if they felt there was they'd probably make that pick and try to make it right with people like me who made my intentions known. I've talked about the state of the franchise with sales reps a few times in the past, they've discussed tanking and how struggling now will be worth it for the financial flexibility and draft position in the future. Their sales team is quite knowledgable, I've learned speaking with them over the years, so I'm not too concerned either way but I, like others, don't want to see them try to outsmart themselves in this draft. They need to take the best option and it's virtually unanimous that the best pick at #1 is Ayton.

I was (playfully) teasing you on that part.

 

[Hoop Head]

I was (playfully) teasing you on that part.

If it did, I'd be pissed off I didn't try doing something similar sooner, I know that for sure.

Seriously, the Suns sales team are really knowledgable. I've been impressed with their knowledge of the game and also how willing they are to discuss the downtime the Suns are in. They're really good at finding silver linings to every complaint I've mentioned to them. I can only imagine what season ticket holders could get away with while speaking with them. I bought 2 10 game packs 4 years ago, so 20 tickets, and that got me in their good graces. Since then I've gotten some great deals and even have gotten free tickets from them at the beginning of the season when they're trying to talk me into buying another similar package like that. They'll get me at the arena to try harder to sell me, which hasn't worked, but I'll buy other tickets so I'm not wasting their time entirely, which I think they appreciate. I'm sure some fans have taken them up on freebies before with no intention on making other purchases at all, single games, multi game, or season tickets and that's got to be frustrating for them.

 

[taz02]

Ayton is an absolute lock for number one. There is no way we will pass on him. We can debate until we are blue in the face but the fact is, Ayton is bigger, more exciting to watch, has a home town connection, fills a position of need and will sell more tickets. Doncic would have to be a clearly superior player to be picked ahead of Ayton and he is not.

I'm not a huge Doncic fan like some on the board but there are some curious events developing. The coach connection, Gambo thrashing his mental state that seemed to come from nowhere, his agent and now some doubt whether he will come over. It all seems a bit curious.

Out of curiosity, if Doncic refuses to come to the NBA next season could he be picked at 16 and left in Europe for a year?

 

[SirStefan32]

Ayton is an absolute lock for number one. There is no way we will pass on him. We can debate until we are blue in the face but the fact is, Ayton is bigger, more exciting to watch, has a home town connection, fills a position of need and will sell more tickets. Doncic would have to be a clearly superior player to be picked ahead of Ayton and he is not.

I'm not a huge Doncic fan like some on the board but there are some curious events developing. The coach connection, Gambo thrashing his mental state that seemed to come from nowhere, his agent and now some doubt whether he will come over. It all seems a bit curious.

Out of curiosity, if Doncic refuses to come to the NBA next season could he be picked at 16 and left in Europe for a year?

Someone is going to call his bluff and draft him long before #16.

 

[SirStefan32]

You see Luka on film or see the highlights, you see the skill, the high-level passing, the incredible feel and court vision but then you see him up close and say, ‘God, this is a big, strong guy who has produced at a high level.'”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...opens-up-deandre-ayton-luka-doncic/620409002/

I am glad that someone finally mentioned that. Doncic is very strong. The first thing I noticed when I watched his first game was how strong he is. He doesn't look like it, but he is.

 

[1tinsoldier]

imo, there's no reason to get nervous. Ayton is the man
but speculating is what forums are for...

if Sac is nervous about a Doncic rebuff, they'd be more open to deal

is there anything Sac could offer that would entice you to switch our #1 pick for their #2?

 

[SirStefan32]

JJ averaged 17/5/2/2 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3 since the turn of the year. That's who he is RIGHT NOW.

You're telling me right now, that Doncic can put up those numbers in the NBA? Total speculation and he won't be near the defender JJ is.

And that's whats REALLY bothering me about the talk coming from the Suns right now. They talk about Ayton and his strengths, while saying he needs to get better on D. And yet they are slobbering ALL OVER Doncic while not even MENTIONING D.

And they've already said as great as his passing is, he's not a PG.

I don't like reading a lot of what I'm reading right now. This just isn't that hard of a decision.

First off, yes, absolutely. Doncic, right now is a better player than JJ was last year. And this is coming from someone who really likes Josh. Your JJ numbers are wrong, by the way. You may be looking at a month or two when JJ played without Booker and Warren for the most part, so without a single scorer on the roster.
If you read some of my other posts, I acknowledge that JJ is likely a better fit, and if you read the last year of my posts, you'll see that I am a huge JJ fan. JJ is good. Doncic is a better player right now.

As to the rest of your post, stop worrying. You are seeing things. The are slobbering over both of them, as they should. At the end of the day, they are picking Ayton. Even if they consider them to be identically good, Ayton fills a huge need. There is no way that McD passes on Ayton. If they had #2, Doncic would be the guy. At #1, it's Ayton. If they had Anthony Davis instead of Booker, it would be a different story.

 

[SirStefan32]

is there anything Sac could offer that would entice you to switch our #1 pick for their #2?

Nope. I like Fox, I like Bogdanovic, I like Heild. one of that comes close to enough to pass on Ayton. Suns got their number one pick. Just draft who you want to draft. No getting cute with trades and crap like that. They just need to take their guy and be done with it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

First off, yes, absolutely. Doncic, right now is a better player than JJ was last year. And this is coming from someone who really likes Josh. Your JJ numbers are wrong, by the way. You may be looking at a month or two when JJ played without Booker and Warren for the most part, so without a single scorer on the roster.
If you read some of my other posts, I acknowledge that JJ is likely a better fit, and if you read the last year of my posts, you'll see that I am a huge JJ fan. JJ is good. Doncic is a better player right now.

My numbers aren't wrong. I said JJ since the turn of this year, has been 17/5/2/2 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. That's not some random month, or a couple of games without scorers. It's who he was CONSISTENTLY from Jan-April.

Here's his breakdown since 2018:
Jan: 14.5 ppg/4.5 rebounds/1.5 asst/.5steals on 43.6% shooting and 31% from 3.
Feb: 17.7 ppg/6.5 rebounds/1.7 asst/ .8 steals on 45.5% shooting and 26.5% from 3.
March: 17.5 ppg/5.3 rebounds/2.5 asst/1.7 steals on 45.5% shooting and 22% from 3
April: 24.5 ppg/6.3 rebounds/2.7 asst/2 steals on 37% shooting and 33% from 3.

Those are his stats FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. They average out to almost EXACTLY what I said: 17 ppg/5 rebounds/2 asst/1 steal... on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. instead of 2 steals per game, it was one.

And he put those numbers up no matter who was in the game, consistently.

It's hard to even have a discussion here when you can't even acknowledge facts. And that's what the above are... stone cold facts.

So, unless you think Doncic can come in RIGHT AWAY and put up 17/5/2/1 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3 while ALSO playing solid D, I don't know how you can possibly say he's already better than JJ. These aren't numbers JJ put up in college. It's numbers he put up IN THE NBA, (consistently for the entire last half of the season) which is a MUCH tougher league than where Doncic is playing.

As to the rest of your post, stop worrying. You are seeing things. The are slobbering over both of them, as they should. At the end of the day, they are picking Ayton. Even if they consider them to be identically good, Ayton fills a huge need. There is no way that McD passes on Ayton. If they had #2, Doncic would be the guy. At #1, it's Ayton. If they had Anthony Davis instead of Booker, it would be a different story.

Look... I believe McD to be an idiot. So, when I see both him AND Igor praising the hell out of Doncic without any qualifications, while Igor hasn't said a peep about Ayton and McD has praised Ayton but definitely talked his negatives, my antennae is up because I think McD a) likes to be the smartest man in the room and b) has done an atrocious job for five years where he's repeatedly shown me that he has no idea how to put an actual TEAM together.

And my antennae go up even more especially when I read this article where Igor was asked point blank about the first pick, and he gushed about Doncic, but didn't mention Ayton.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1530420/igor-kokoskov-phoenix-suns-nba-draft-1-pick-luka-doncic/

I get it... you have faith in McD for some reason. I don't share that belief, so I think we could be in for the biggest mistake yet. There's no such thing as a "sure thing" for a GM when they suck. Terrell Suggs was literally as SURE A THING EVER for the Cardinals to draft back in 2003. They were DESPERATE for a pass rusher... there was A GREAT ONE (that's going to be a HOFer!) on the board when they pick and he was even a LOCAL COLLEGE KID and they freaking traded the pick away to take Calvin Pace and Bryant Skillet-Hands Johnson! Why? Because You may not think that's possible here, but I do and until I hear that name called, I'll be worried and justifiably, IMO.

 

[SweetD]

O NO someone opened a can of cheesy!

 

[GatorAZ]

My numbers aren't wrong. I said JJ since the turn of this year, has been 17/5/2/2 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. That's not some random month, or a couple of games without scorers. It's who he was CONSISTENTLY from Jan-April.

Here's his breakdown since 2018:
Jan: 14.5 ppg/4.5 rebounds/1.5 asst/.5steals on 43.6% shooting and 31% from 3.
Feb: 17.7 ppg/6.5 rebounds/1.7 asst/ .8 steals on 45.5% shooting and 26.5% from 3.
March: 17.5 ppg/5.3 rebounds/2.5 asst/1.7 steals on 45.5% shooting and 22% from 3
April: 24.5 ppg/6.3 rebounds/2.7 asst/2 steals on 37% shooting and 33% from 3.

Those are his stats FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. They average out to almost EXACTLY what I said: 17 ppg/5 rebounds/2 asst/1 steal... on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. instead of 2 steals per game, it was one.

And he put those numbers up no matter who was in the game, consistently.

It's hard to even have a discussion here when you can't even acknowledge facts. And that's what the above are... stone cold facts.

So, unless you think Doncic can come in RIGHT AWAY and put up 17/5/2/1 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3 while ALSO playing solid D, I don't know how you can possibly say he's already better than JJ. These aren't numbers JJ put up in college. It's numbers he put up IN THE NBA, (consistently for the entire last half of the season) which is a MUCH tougher league than where Doncic is playing.



Look... I believe McD to be an idiot. So, when I see both him AND Igor praising the hell out of Doncic without any qualifications, while Igor hasn't said a peep about Ayton and McD has praised Ayton but definitely talked his negatives, my antennae is up because I think McD a) likes to be the smartest man in the room and b) has done an atrocious job for five years where he's repeatedly shown me that he has no idea how to put an actual TEAM together.

And my antennae go up even more especially when I read this article where Igor was asked point blank about the first pick, and he gushed about Doncic, but didn't mention Ayton.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1530420/igor-kokoskov-phoenix-suns-nba-draft-1-pick-luka-doncic/

I get it... you have faith in McD for some reason. I don't share that belief, so I think we could be in for the biggest mistake yet. There's no such thing as a "sure thing" for a GM when they suck. Terrell Suggs was literally as SURE A THING EVER for the Cardinals to draft back in 2003. They were DESPERATE for a pass rusher... there was A GREAT ONE (that's going to be a HOFer!) on the board when they pick and he was even a LOCAL COLLEGE KID and they freaking traded the pick away to take Calvin Pace and Bryant Skillet-Hands Johnson! Why? Because You may not think that's possible here, but I do and until I hear that name called, I'll be worried and justifiably, IMO.

Great. Now I’m nervous that we not only don’t take Ayton but might have a coach with resentment if we do take Ayton!

 

[SweetD]

Great. Now I’m nervous that we not only don’t take Ayton but might have a coach with resentment if we do take Ayton!

Why he already said it is not his job to draft player, it is his job to work with what the GM and scouts feel is the best players for the team. I see zero issues

 

[SirStefan32]

I took "year" as a "season". Either way, same minutes, same team/ lack of scorers, Doncic could absolutely put up the same numbers, and he is much younger. I get it, dude, you don't like Doncic, and that's fine, but the kid is a consensus number two pick in a loaded draft for a reason. He can play. Hell, Bogdanovic put up 12, 3, and 3 in Sacramento in 28-ish minutes per game with fewer shot attempts. I like JJ, but his season was not some equivalent of Booker.

As for Igor, of course he is going to talk about Doncic, because he is the one he is familiar with. He even remarked on how he is not a scout and can't speak to the others. His answer was completely reasonable. He knows Doncic. He does not know Ayton because it's not his job to know Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My numbers aren't wrong. I said JJ since the turn of this year, has been 17/5/2/2 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. That's not some random month, or a couple of games without scorers. It's who he was CONSISTENTLY from Jan-April.

Here's his breakdown since 2018:
Jan: 14.5 ppg/4.5 rebounds/1.5 asst/.5steals on 43.6% shooting and 31% from 3.
Feb: 17.7 ppg/6.5 rebounds/1.7 asst/ .8 steals on 45.5% shooting and 26.5% from 3.
March: 17.5 ppg/5.3 rebounds/2.5 asst/1.7 steals on 45.5% shooting and 22% from 3
April: 24.5 ppg/6.3 rebounds/2.7 asst/2 steals on 37% shooting and 33% from 3.

Those are his stats FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. They average out to almost EXACTLY what I said: 17 ppg/5 rebounds/2 asst/1 steal... on 44% shooting and 28% from 3. instead of 2 steals per game, it was one.

And he put those numbers up no matter who was in the game, consistently.

It's hard to even have a discussion here when you can't even acknowledge facts. And that's what the above are... stone cold facts.

So, unless you think Doncic can come in RIGHT AWAY and put up 17/5/2/1 on 44% shooting and 28% from 3 while ALSO playing solid D, I don't know how you can possibly say he's already better than JJ. These aren't numbers JJ put up in college. It's numbers he put up IN THE NBA, (consistently for the entire last half of the season) which is a MUCH tougher league than where Doncic is playing.



Look... I believe McD to be an idiot. So, when I see both him AND Igor praising the hell out of Doncic without any qualifications, while Igor hasn't said a peep about Ayton and McD has praised Ayton but definitely talked his negatives, my antennae is up because I think McD a) likes to be the smartest man in the room and b) has done an atrocious job for five years where he's repeatedly shown me that he has no idea how to put an actual TEAM together.

And my antennae go up even more especially when I read this article where Igor was asked point blank about the first pick, and he gushed about Doncic, but didn't mention Ayton.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1530420/igor-kokoskov-phoenix-suns-nba-draft-1-pick-luka-doncic/

I get it... you have faith in McD for some reason. I don't share that belief, so I think we could be in for the biggest mistake yet. There's no such thing as a "sure thing" for a GM when they suck. Terrell Suggs was literally as SURE A THING EVER for the Cardinals to draft back in 2003. They were DESPERATE for a pass rusher... there was A GREAT ONE (that's going to be a HOFer!) on the board when they pick and he was even a LOCAL COLLEGE KID and they freaking traded the pick away to take Calvin Pace and Bryant Skillet-Hands Johnson! Why? Because You may not think that's possible here, but I do and until I hear that name called, I'll be worried and justifiably, IMO.

Eh you have to remember the article is drafted by someone NOT Kokoskov. So (a) we don’t even know if any questions were asked about Ayton; (b) the author could want the article to be about Luka and draft it accordingly; and (c) Igor has admitted he doesn’t know about other prospects so it makes sense that he might not comment on Ayton or others specifically (he does do so generally).

 

[Hoop Head]

Great. Now I’m nervous that we not only don’t take Ayton but might have a coach with resentment if we do take Ayton!

I could see that as an issue if we were picking at the end of the 1st round and didn't take who he wanted but not #1 overall. He's a first time head coach, if he does that to the consensus #1 prospect then he'll never get another head coach job in the NBA. At least he won't for a long time.

 

[GatorAZ]

Why he already said it is not his job to draft player, it is his job to work with what the GM and scouts feel is the best players for the team. I see zero issues

No I do think he’ll be fine. I think he probably already knows they’re taking Ayton. Look at the difference in reaction after each announcement. He even did a Holy Spirit Cross at :40 seconds. He knows who they’re taking.

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[JCSunsfan]

Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Bender. That's a great core to build around. Chriss might turn out too.

Now we have a boatload of picks and Chriss, Warren, and free agency money to find a competent pg. Good grief, we might even find a pg among the players we already have. Knight, Payton, Ulis, Shaq.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Bender. That's a great core to build around. Chriss might turn out too.

Now we have a boatload of picks and Chriss, Warren, and free agency money to find a competent pg. Good grief, we might even find a pg among the players we already have. Knight, Payton, Ulis, Shaq.

Add Canaan into that PG search also. I saw he spoke like he was part of the team still on Twitter after the lottery drawing. It was said he will be with the Suns for training camp, health permitting, and the Suns also made their facilities available to him to rehab after they waived him to free up a roster spot. His contract was guaranteed so he was getting paid by us regardless after he got hurt and the team was trying to make things right even though they "waived" him.

I have more hope for Canaan being a servicable PG next season than Ulis. Shaq could be a combo guard, same with Knight, and Canaan has played SG also. Payton and Ulis are the only true PG's the Suns have at the moment but I suspect we'll replace Payton this summer and Knight will have a shot at winning the starting job. Canaan and Shaq as our 5th and 6th guards isn't too bad, behind Booker, Knight, new PG, and Daniels.

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[hsandhu]

I listened to the kokoskov interview live when it aired yesterday. He was not asked one question about ayton. Everything was about doncic, "Why is he so good", "why will he fit here", etc..

He was simply responding to questions, he wasn't proactively going out of his way to make a case for doncic. I listened to it live and wasnt worried about anything.

Also the author of that article, kellan olson, is someone who would drink doncic's bathwater. The comments are roasting him

 

[hsandhu]

I took "year" as a "season". Either way, same minutes, same team/ lack of scorers, Doncic could absolutely put up the same numbers, and he is much younger. I get it, dude, you don't like Doncic, and that's fine, but the kid is a consensus number two pick in a loaded draft for a reason. He can play. Hell, Bogdanovic put up 12, 3, and 3 in Sacramento in 28-ish minutes per game with fewer shot attempts. I like JJ, but his season was not some equivalent of Booker.

As for Igor, of course he is going to talk about Doncic, because he is the one he is familiar with. He even remarked on how he is not a scout and can't speak to the others. His answer was completely reasonable. He knows Doncic. He does not know Ayton because it's not his job to know Ayton.

Cheese was making a simple case, we have actually seen jackson do it for months at the highest level, so not as clear cut that doncic is better than him as you would want people to believe.

What is it about doncic that you'll spin facts to prove his greatness.

You try and use Bogdanovic to discount jackson... but bogdanovic is going to be 26 soon, almost 4 years older than jackson. But 2 years younger than jackson, you say doncic is "much younger"?

You say Doncic could "absolutely" put up those numbers. Maybe he would, but to be so absolutely certain, leaving no possiblity you could be wrong?

 

[JCSunsfan]

No I do think he’ll be fine. I think he probably already knows they’re taking Ayton. Look at the difference in reaction after each announcement. He even did a Holy Spirit Cross at :40 seconds. He knows who they’re taking.

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There was a huge difference in his reaction between #2 and #1. I cannot imagine he was getting that excited about Doncic over Ayton. That video tells me they would have been very happy to get Doncic, and they are absolutely thrilled to get Ayton. Cheese. You are skeptical of McD. I get it. But I cannot imagine we will be taking Doncic over Ayton. If that were true, why in the world would Doncic be now talking about maybe not coming over? The Suns is where Doncic wants to land. Everything points to Ayton.

And I totally agree. I would not trade Jackson for Doncic. The only way Doncic is really effective is if Jackson is here. His skill set is essential on this team.

 

[hsandhu]

There was a huge difference in his reaction between #2 and #1. I cannot imagine he was getting that excited about Doncic over Ayton. Cheese. You are skeptical of McD. I get it. But I cannot imagine we will be taking Doncic over Ayton. If that were true, why in the world would Doncic be now talking about maybe not coming over? The Suns is where Doncic wants to land. Everything points to Ayton.

And I totally agree. I would not trade Jackson for Doncic. The only way Doncic is really effective is if Jackson is here. His skill set is essential on this team.

McD talking today about the nonsense idea some put out there you must go doncic because bigs don't work today:

“People look at Golden State and say that but if you look at Anthony Davis and the impact he had with New Orleans, Joel Embiid and what he’s done for the Philadelphia 76ers, Clint Capela and the role he’s playing for Houston ... the special ones are valuable. The unique freaks, which Ayton and Bamba and Bagley and some of these guys are, there aren’t too many guys in the world 6-10 to 7-1 with that kind of skill, athleticism and coordination.

“I get generally that’s the trend but I think there are a few exceptions and I think some of the guys in the draft are going to be those freak players.”

That's basically the exact same case I made responding to someone yesterday. and if first names he thinks of are anthony davis and joel embiid, that's a good sign as to how strong his feelings are towards ayton


If gambo starts getting less sure in the upcoming weeks, then I'll get nervous. I'm guessing gambo's source is pretty high in the suns, pretty good chance it is sarver himself.

Also this is where sarver's penny pinching is a plus, he's going to see ayton as bigger box office and drawing more season tickets.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I listened to the kokoskov interview live when it aired yesterday. He was not asked one question about ayton. Everything was about doncic, "Why is he so good", "why will he fit here", etc..

He was simply responding to questions, he wasn't proactively going out of his way to make a case for doncic. I listened to it live and wasnt worried about anything.

Also the author of that article, kellan olson, is someone who would drink doncic's bathwater. The comments are roasting him

this makes me feel a little better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There was a huge difference in his reaction between #2 and #1. I cannot imagine he was getting that excited about Doncic over Ayton. That video tells me they would have been very happy to get Doncic, and they are absolutely thrilled to get Ayton. Cheese. You are skeptical of McD. I get it. But I cannot imagine we will be taking Doncic over Ayton. If that were true, why in the world would Doncic be now talking about maybe not coming over? The Suns is where Doncic wants to land. Everything points to Ayton.

And I totally agree. I would not trade Jackson for Doncic. The only way Doncic is really effective is if Jackson is here. His skill set is essential on this team.

Just saying... EVERYTHING pointed to Suggs too. When you have people in the FO who you believe to be generally incompetent, you come to expect the worst, even when handed the best case scenario.