The Truth About Leinart and Warner

[joeshmo]

As far as the Whis. knows best, & if he has selected Lienart as the starter, he must know better argument........Remember, Whis. selected Lienart as the starter last year as well. Does anyone really believe in their heart of hearts that Lienart was doing a better job before the injury. We'll never know for sure whether he would have improved as the season went on, but the odds are significant that he wouldn't have done better than Warner or probably even close.

He picked Matt because by all accounts Matt played just as good as Warner did in camp and preseason. Also if you remember coach didnt make Matt the full time starter, Wiz used a two headed monster and still gave playing time to Warner. So I am not sure if your arguement holds any water in trying to say that Wiz didnt know what was best for the team or had some sort of alterior motives considering he was playing both QB's.

He knew Matt didnt have a grasp of the whole playbook and couldnt do the same things as Warner, so he gave Warner playing time as well. Wiz knew that Matt was a better run game magager and the run game stats from when Matt was playing to when he was injured proved that out. Wiz knew that Matt was right for the job against Pitt and left him in for the game winning drive. Tells me Wiz will do what he feels best will make the team win and his only alterior motive is winning. If he feels Matt has put in the work, time, effort, and has made improvments enough to be called the starter right now then I am inclined to believe him considering he is not affriad to not only play Kurt but has also shown in the past he is not affraid to say what Matt is doing wrong and air that dirty laundry to the press.

I am still trying to figure out what alterior motives you think he has?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Ulterior:

being beyond what is seen or avowed; intentionally kept concealed: ulterior motives.

 

[jefftheshark]

I might be in the minority but I think Leinart with a year to sit on the bench and the beating he has taken publicly is going to outplay Warner from traning camp on - especially when you consider the offense Wiz brings was made for a QB like Leinart rather then a statue with a cannon arm in Warner.

You might be in the minority, but you are not alone. I see this situation the very same way.

Anyone who has been around this board awhile knows to take Mitch's opinions with a mountain of salt. How can anyone forget the good old days of Walter Mitchell's front page stories, half of which were dedicated to fawning over scrubs like Steve Bush and Jason McAddley?

I don't mean this to be disrespectful to Walter, but until I see both Boldin and Dockett traded away, I am taking a very skeptical eye to what he claims is "truth".

JTS

 

[RugbyMuffin]

That is fine.

Start Warner this year and have Leinart sit on the bench. When Warner goes down due to injury (he hasn't started 16 games in seven year BTW) Leinart can come in and we can see what he can do.

It makes perfect sense. This IS a open competition and it is completely wrong to just hand your a QB the starting postion. That being said lets now hand the starting position to Warner cause in the last seven years he has played at an All-Pro level 7% of the time. (That would be a 1/2 of a season out of seven for you scoring at home). For Pete's sake he was an MVP in 2001, on a horrible team. I mean when you got Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, and Isaac Bruce as your weapons it is surprising you can do anything at all.

Who cares if the coaches on this team think Matt Leinart is beating Warner out for the job right now. Screw them. What do they know ? Warner is cool, he is the guy. I mean who doesn't want to back the 37 year QB who played with a broken arm last year ? Because the guys at ESPN know all about the Phoenix Cardinals.

 

[joeshmo]

Ulterior:

being beyond what is seen or avowed; intentionally kept concealed: ulterior motives.

What ever, book worm!

 

[moklerman]

When Warner goes down due to injury (he hasn't started 16 games in seven year BTW) Leinart can come in and we can see what he can do.

It seems to me that you're implying Warner isn't physically capable of playing 16 games. If so, your 7 years mantra is a bit misleading.

2002-broke his hand a couple of times
2003-not hurt
2004-not hurt
2005-pulled a groin, strained a knee
2006-not hurt
2007-hurt his elbow but played through it

I don't understand the rationale that a guy who hasn't played 16 full games in his career and had a season ending injury both times he's had an opportunity to play is somehow the more obvious choice. If anything, Leinart has shown that he is fragile thus far. Warner is by no means an iron man but between the two he's stayed on the field longer and produced more. Career-wise and most recently.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It seems to me that you're implying Warner isn't physically capable of playing 16 games. If so, your 7 years mantra is a bit misleading.

2002-broke his hand a couple of times
2003-not hurt
2004-not hurt
2005-pulled a groin, strained a knee
2006-not hurt
2007-hurt his elbow but played through it

I don't understand the rationale that a guy who hasn't played 16 full games in his career and had a season ending injury both times he's had an opportunity to play is somehow the more obvious choice. If anything, Leinart has shown that he is fragile thus far. Warner is by no means an iron man but between the two he's stayed on the field longer and produced more. Career-wise and most recently.

True that. But still makes my point that Warner is not a "sure thing" like he is being presented.

Mitch's assumption (which he likes to call a truth) that the Cardinals are trying to low ball him and not pay him a starters salary carries no wieght. The information above shows more time than not he has not been NFL starting talent. Thus the Cardinals signing him to a backup/non-starter salary is more than justified.

It is fair to say that both are risk injury wise, and what we really should be happy about having both on the team for next season. I would hate for the whole thing to pan out like this, but injuries may be the thing that decides who the starter will be for the most of the season.

Cardsfanmd has a good post that we are pretty good depth wise except for the positions he noted....something to be happy about.

 

[black]

You must be getting smarter in your old age.

Huh? I forget already, whats up?

 

[Mitch]

True that. But still makes my point that Warner is not a "sure thing" like he is being presented.

Mitch's assumption (which he likes to call a truth) that the Cardinals are trying to low ball him and not pay him a starters salary carries no wieght. The information above shows more time than not he has not been NFL starting talent. Thus the Cardinals signing him to a backup/non-starter salary is more than justified.

It is fair to say that both are risk injury wise, and what we really should be happy about having both on the team for next season. I would hate for the whole thing to pan out like this, but injuries may be the thing that decides who the starter will be for the most of the season.

Cardsfanmd has a good post that we are pretty good depth wise except for the positions he noted....something to be happy about.

The truth:

(1) Warner started 11 games last year--he threw for 3324 yards, 27 TDs, 17 INTs, 62.3%, and a QB rating of 89.9 (6th best in NFC). Plus, Warner's red zone efficiency was near the top in the NFL. And..get this...Warner led the Cardinals to the #5 team passing rank in the NFL.

(2) Warner was not making a starter's salary last year.

(3) The Cardinals could have awarded Warner his $1M incentive bonus for a 90.0 QB rating, which he fell 1/10 of a point short of...the Cards did not.

(4) The Cardinals have said that they would like to extend Warner's current deal this summer...but there has been no indication that it would be for starter's money.

My perception of the truth:

(1) The Cardinals like having Warner in the mix so much that they want to extend his contract...but they do not want to pay him starter's money.

(2) The Cardinals are tight under the cap and do not believe they can afford to pay Warner starter's money, even though the staff considers Warner a top-flight option as a starter in case Matt Leinart falters or gets hurt again.

(3) Because there was no pressing reason to have to name a starter heading into TC, the fact that Leinart was named, rather than thrown into a head to head competition for the job, makes me believe that the Cardinals wanted to stifle any chance that Warner would ask for starter's money.

Like I've been saying...ideally...Leinart shines, leads the team to wins and secures his role as the starter. I believe everyone in the Cardinal organization hopes for this. Then the Warner discussion is a moot point.

However, in my opinion, if you slapped a lie detector on Whiz and Haley right now and asked them who the best QB is for their system--RIGHT NOW--there would be a whole lot of movement on the charts if they were to say Leinart.

I believe this to be the truth. Sorry some of you are offended by this.

 

[moklerman]

The information above shows more time than not he has not been NFL starting talent.

I understand where you're coming from and essentially agree that from 2002-2006, Warner's apparent denial about his hand/fingers and resulting chronic fumbling made him a liability on the field. However, the gloves have changed that particular discussion in my opinion. I don't consider where he is now directly related to where he was those five years.

His age is obviously an issue and he could pull a Dan Marino and pop his Achilles tendon on the first day of training camp but I also believe the o-line will be better this year(2nd year in system as well as the cohesion and familiarity that comes with time) and will provide enough of a running game that the timing of the passing offense won't be so predictable. Add in the health of everyone on offense and I relish seeing them hit the ground running. Picking up where they left off last year is a scenario I envision to be a lot more attainable than dealing with whatever growing pains Leinart would likely bring to the table.

To me, what Leinart has shown may be enough to say that he might make it in the NFL. Not greatness or anything lofty like that...so far. This isn't a case like Palmer or Rivers where Leinart isn't getting any playing time or experience so grooming him as the #2 until Warner retires, fails or gets injured seems like the most sane approach to the situation.

Playing Kreskin, I feel that Whis is playing things the way that he has as a way to motivate and push Leinart. At the end of preseason though, I would bet money that Warner will have outperformed him and get the starting nod. Strategically speaking, this will force Warner to buy into Whis/Haley's plans for the offense and be a good boy to keep his job. Leinart won't be responsible for the salvation and playoff hopes of the franchise and he will be waiting in the wings when his chance arises. The team will see that the situation was handled the right way and it won't turn into a Flutie/Johnson fiasco.

Of course, I still have a crappy job that I have to go to every day because the Lottery keeps getting the numbers wrong. So what do I know?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

(3) The Cardinals could have awarded Warner his $1M incentive bonus for a 90.0 QB rating, which he fell 1/10 of a point short of...the Cards did not.

Myth. The Players Union ruled that this would have been a violation of the contract.

 

[joeshmo]

(2) Warner was not making a starter's salary last year.

(3) The Cardinals could have awarded Warner his $1M incentive bonus for a 90.0 QB rating, which he fell 1/10 of a point short of...the Cards did not.

(4) The Cardinals have said that they would like to extend Warner's current deal this summer...but there has been no indication that it would be for starter's money.

More of your truths that are just misconceptions or opinions.

2 - He was the 16th highest paid QB in the league last year. Starting QB salary he was making.

3 - He didnt make his incentive because he was injured and had to be taken out of the red zone because he couldnt hand the ball off which tipped the offenses hand if he was in there, plus he threw the INT's. Those are Warner issues not Cardinal issues. Warner didnt reach his incentive thats Warners fault and not in any way shape or form the Cards responsibility.

4 - There has also been no indication that it wont be for starters money. If they are offering anything around 4 Mill a year he would be making top 20 QB starting money. For a QB that will be 39 by the time that contract ends, Top 20 QB money is more then fair.

My perception of the truth:

(1) The Cardinals like having Warner in the mix so much that they want to extend his contract...but they do not want to pay him starter's money.

(2) The Cardinals are tight under the cap and do not believe they can afford to pay Warner starter's money, even though the staff considers Warner a top-flight option as a starter in case Matt Leinart falters or gets hurt again.

(3) Because there was no pressing reason to have to name a starter heading into TC, the fact that Leinart was named, rather than thrown into a head to head competition for the job, makes me believe that the Cardinals wanted to stifle any chance that Warner would ask for starter's money.

1 - How do you know what they are offering him? Or do you know the truth in those negotiations.

2 - They are not tight under the cap. They will have money to extend players this season. In fact extending Warner two more years will actually save us cap space since his bonus will be spread out over 3 years. Your point is completely wrong.

3 - Why not name a starter? Why not show confidence in your QB of the future? All the while coach has stated the whole time that Warner is in the mix and Matt will still have to prove him self. It isnt like Wiz named him the unquestioned starter. He named him the starter going into the offseason. Very big difference. Not to mention coach has made very critical comments about Matt this whole offseason. He hasnt hid a thing.

However, in my opinion, if you slapped a lie detector on Whiz and Haley right now and asked them who the best QB is for their system--RIGHT NOW--there would be a whole lot of movement on the charts if they were to say Leinart.

OK now I know you are just making things up just for the sake of getting a conversation going. Graves is about the straightest shooter there is in all of football front offices. Graves is not and has never played games like this before. I dont like a lot of things about Graves but there is one thing that is undeniably awesome about the guy. He is truthfull and honest. Since Graves is the one that makes the decisions on cap and contracts Wiz and Haley are an extension of Graves in this area.

I believe this to be the truth. Sorry some of you are offended by this.

Saying something is the truth and then saying you believe something to be the truth is very much so different things.

 

[Mitch]

Myth. The Players Union ruled that this would have been a violation of the contract.

Thanks for clarifying that, dreamcastrocks. At the end of the season, there was speculation that the Cards could award Warner the bonus.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Thanks for clarifying that, dreamcastrocks. At the end of the season, there was speculation that the Cards could award Warner the bonus.

Yeah, np. Warner asked for it, the FO considered, until they said it would be a violation.

 

[joeshmo]

Yeah, np. Warner asked for it, the FO considered, until they said it would be a violation.

Forgot all about that.

 

[Mitch]

More of your truths that are just misconceptions or opinions.

2 - He was the 16th highest paid QB in the league last year. Starting QB salary he was making.

3 - He didnt make his incentive because he was injured and had to be taken out of the red zone because he couldnt hand the ball off which tipped the offenses hand if he was in there, plus he threw the INT's. Those are Warner issues not Cardinal issues. Warner didnt reach his incentive thats Warners fault and not in any way shape or form the Cards responsibility.

4 - There has also been no indication that it wont be for starters money. If they are offering anything around 4 Mill a year he would be making top 20 QB starting money. For a QB that will be 39 by the time that contract ends, Top 20 QB money is more then fair.

My perception of the truth:

(1) The Cardinals like having Warner in the mix so much that they want to extend his contract...but they do not want to pay him starter's money.

(2) The Cardinals are tight under the cap and do not believe they can afford to pay Warner starter's money, even though the staff considers Warner a top-flight option as a starter in case Matt Leinart falters or gets hurt again.

(3) Because there was no pressing reason to have to name a starter heading into TC, the fact that Leinart was named, rather than thrown into a head to head competition for the job, makes me believe that the Cardinals wanted to stifle any chance that Warner would ask for starter's money.[\quote]

1 - How do you know what they are offering him? Or do you know the truth in those negotiations.

2 - They are not tight under the cap. They will have money to extend players this season. In fact extending Warner two more years will actually save us cap space since his bonus will be spread out over 3 years. Your point is completely wrong.

3 - Why not name a starter? Why not show confidence in your QB of the future? All the while coach has stated the whole time that Warner is in the mix and Matt will still have to prove him self. It isnt like Wiz named him the unquestioned starter. He named him the starter going into the offseason. Very big difference. Not to mention coach has made very critical comments about Matt this whole offseason. He hasnt hid a thing.



OK now I know you are just making things up just for the sake of getting a conversation going. Graves is about the straightest shooter there is in all of football front offices. Graves is not and has never played games like this before. I dont like a lot of things about Graves but there is one thing that is undeniably awesome about the guy. He is truthfull and honest. Since Graves is the one that makes the decisions on cap and contracts Wiz and Haley are an extension of Graves in this area.



Saying something is the truth and then saying you believe something to be the truth is very much so different things.

______________________________________________________________

Matt Leinart made a starter's salary last year...a cool $10M (9th highest QB salary in the NFL).

Warner made $4M.

Warner led the team to the #5 team passing ranking in the NFL...and by today's standards a QB that does that, warrants far more than $4M.

Why name a starter? Especially after Warner put up such good numbers? You are so whipped by Whiz, you think he can do no wrong.

I like Whiz a lot...but on this one, he's lost some credibility, IMO....he invoked the old, "you can't lose the job by injury" claim. That's bogus.

Warner played his heart out...with one arm in a sling...it's bogus that he wasn't at least afforded a 50/50 chance to win the job.

While it's easy to drink the Cards' Kool Aid these days...all is not completely well in Glendale...the Cards are not dealing in perfectly good faith (as you suggest by lionizing Graves for his so-called honesty)...they think they can string Warner along because of his age and his loyalty and good nature. He deserves much more repsect than he's getting.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Forgot all about that.

A 1-up on joe. Doesn't happen to often. Go me.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

So how long will it take for the board to switch to Leinart if Warner is taking the snaps in week 1? I'd say about a quarter and that my friends is the real truth.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

More of your truths that are just misconceptions or opinions.

2 - He was the 16th highest paid QB in the league last year. Starting QB salary he was making.

3 - He didnt make his incentive because he was injured and had to be taken out of the red zone because he couldnt hand the ball off which tipped the offenses hand if he was in there, plus he threw the INT's. Those are Warner issues not Cardinal issues. Warner didnt reach his incentive thats Warners fault and not in any way shape or form the Cards responsibility.

4 - There has also been no indication that it wont be for starters money. If they are offering anything around 4 Mill a year he would be making top 20 QB starting money. For a QB that will be 39 by the time that contract ends, Top 20 QB money is more then fair.


______________________________________________________________

Matt Leinart made a starter's salary last year...a cool $10M (9th highest QB salary in the NFL).

Warner made $4M.

Warner led the team to the #5 team passing ranking in the NFL...and by today's standards a QB that does that, warrants far more than $4M.

Why name a starter? Especially after Warner put up such good numbers? You are so whipped by Whiz, you think he can do no wrong.

I like Whiz a lot...but on this one, he's lost some credibility, IMO....he invoked the old, "you can't lose the job by injury" claim. That's bogus.

Warner played his heart out...with one arm in a sling...it's bogus that he wasn't at least afforded a 50/50 chance to win the job.

While it's easy to drink the Cards' Kool Aid these days...all is not completely well in Glendale...the Cards are not dealing in perfectly good faith (as you suggest by lionizing Graves for his so-called honesty)...they think they can string Warner along because of his age and his loyalty and good nature. He deserves much more repsect than he's getting.

Simple, if Warner was 25, 28, hell even 32, I would agree with you 100%. But Warner isn't young, so he played his heart out, big deal. Sorry I know that isn't common fan speak, but I don't care. Warner is a cigarette, yeah looks sexy in your hand and feels good going down but in a few years you're going to get screwed.

The real issue that you fans need to come to grips with is the past is the past and you don't need to win now at all costs. There is no desperation, no rush, if you are old sucks for you, should have picked a better team or swtiched at like 50, you are not NY or Boston and even they were willing to sit or dump the old skilled veteran to devlop and take lumps with their young QB's. Will ML ever be Manning or Brady? Can't say, but I do know Warner knows how to play the fans and media like no other and he is 38 and I think that that Whiz knows deep down the training wheels need to come off and Warner will get screwed.

So my prediction is ML starts and will have a very long leash for this season.

 

[Cards232]

Simple, if Warner was 25, 28, hell even 32, I would agree with you 100%. But Warner isn't young, so he played his heart out, big deal. Sorry I know that isn't common fan speak, but I don't care. Warner is a cigarette, yeah looks sexy in your hand and feels good going down but in a few years you're going to get screwed.

The real issue that you fans need to come to grips with is the past is the past and you don't need to win now at all costs. There is no desperation, no rush, if you are old sucks for you, should have picked a better team or swtiched at like 50, you are not NY or Boston and even they were willing to sit or dump the old skilled veteran to devlop and take lumps with their young QB's. Will ML ever be Manning or Brady? Can't say, but I do know Warner knows how to play the fans and media like no other and he is 38 and I think that that Whiz knows deep down the training wheels need to come off and Warner will get screwed.

So my prediction is ML starts and will have a very long leash for this season.

I believe Rich Gannon was 37 years old when he won the league MVP & lead the raiders to the SB. Had it not been for a freak injury, many believe he could have played at that level for another few years. Gannon had a lot more miles on him than Kurt & quite frankly was no where near the qb Kurt is. There are those that transcend age. Normally w/ age, the wheels start coming off long before the eventual crash. If you feel the wheels were coming off for Kurt last year, then you were watching different games than I was. If he had been given the chance to play 16 games, he probably goes to the Pro Bowl. Hardly an old washed up qb.

It's not desperation most of us are talking about, rather pragmatism. I respect your opinion, but to throw Kurt under the bus solely for his age, belies a lack of keen understanding of the game. The position of qb is as much about the mental part of the game as the physical. That's why the NFL history is littered w/ unbelievably talented qb's who never made it, & why guys like Marino & Warner who are about as statuesque as they come are record holders & winners. I'll take a guy like Warner, who understands the game, over a guy that can throw 80 yds on the fly & run a 4.5 any day of the week.

Warner is no less mobile nor w/ appreciably less arm strength than when he won the SB & MVP's. He is however, probably smarter than he was back then. That combination could take us a long way this year. But perhaps we should just build for the future. Isn't that what Cards fans have been forced to listen to for decades. Isn't it about time we start thinking differently? How about trying to win this year w/ something we already know, rather than bet on the come w/ someone we're not entirely sure about.

Part of football is playing the numbers. As a coach, I can tell you the numbers are on Warner's side in a fairly big way for taking this team further. Fantasy experts would take Warner over Lienart in a big way. Why? Warner is a known. Lienart is the big unknown, good upside potential, but not enough to warrant the risk of going against the known, especially when the known is soooooo good.

Again, just food for thought.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I believe this to be the truth. Sorry some of you are offended by this.

Not offended at all Mitch. I don't get offended by anyone but CB. For some reason he pushes my button, and I do the same to him.

You keep on selling your points cause this is a great debate, and it will get even better once the preseason games start. You want to call you points truths that is fine, but I personally think they are your opinions. Some of, not all, I disagree with.

I think giving Warner a starters salary when he has played like a starter for a 1/2 of a season out of the last seven would be stupid. The Cardinals would be very stupid for doing that.

It just seems like there is a A LOT that you are hanging your hat on for 11 good games in the last seven seasons.

As for the whole incentive for 90.0 rating....NO F'N way. 1. He did make the number, and 2. that would open a can of worms league wide. Furthermore, as we all read it was a voilation, and even futher still I believe the Cardinals hinted later on they were going to re-negotiate his contract and make up for it then.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

they think they can string Warner along because of his age and his loyalty and good nature. He deserves much more repsect than he's getting.

You think Warner is getting dis-respected ?

Sorry that is insane.

Right now we have a QB controversy (sp?) like it or not.

We are currently redoing Warner's contract who is our SECOND (or the first and Leinart is the second whatever) quarterback. He was already the highest paid backup in the league. And now we are re-doing the deal at age 37 ? In front of Boldin, Dockett, and Dansby ?

That is disrespect ? There is NO other team that is or would do this. I think Warner gets a load of respect by this organization, and coaching staff.

Pick another front to fight cause that holds no merit what so ever.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If you feel the wheels were coming off for Kurt last year, then you were watching different games than I was. If he had been given the chance to play 16 games, he probably goes to the Pro Bowl. Hardly an old washed up qb.

I agree on all points. The guy was an absolute warrior.

It's not desperation most of us are talking about, rather pragmatism. I respect your opinion, but to throw Kurt under the bus solely for his age, belies a lack of keen understanding of the game.

Sorry I guess my lack of understanding is what is not allowing me to block out that last the majority of the last 7 seasons of Warner's career where he was not playing anywhere near a Pro-Bowl level....or the level of a starting QB for that matter.

And I guess I should forget this iron man torn his groin on a boot leg two years ago without getting touched.

How about trying to win this year w/ something we already know, rather than bet on the come w/ someone we're not entirely sure about.
Warner is a known. Lienart is the big unknown, good upside potential, but not enough to warrant the risk of going against the known, especially when the known is soooooo good.

You make good points. But we will have to agree to disagree that Warner is a sure thing. As my previous posts state he has played well 7% of the time in the last seven seasons.

That is far from a sure thing. But to be fair it is a risk on both sides. Warner could come out and be the turnover machine (and not the MVP kind, the lose us games kind that he was and got him pulled in the first place). Leinart could come out, and still play below average.

Either or, thank goodness we got two guys.

 

[slanidrac16]

Matt Leinart was deemed, by the coaching staff, as the team's starter heading into TC for one simple reason: the Cardinals do not want to have to pay Kurt Warner a starter's salary.

Sure...the Cards would love to get maximum value on Leinart, the team's 1st round pick in 2006, #10 overall. No question.

But...if they appointed Warner the starter heading into TC, and applauded Warner for throwing 27 TDs and a top three in the league red zone proficiency with torn ligs--no less--in his left elbow...Warner would be in a logical position to command a starter's salary.

Now...the team wants to reup Warner on a short-term extension, and some say the deal will get done before TC...not so fast...Warner may likely take his chances, seize the starter's job, as some, including myself, expect him to do, and then parlay this year's performance into a lucrative two-year extension (with the Cards) or on the free agent market come next March.

Warner, as loyal and gracious as he is, may accept a hometown discount with the Cards...and may even sign an extension before TC...as he and his family are probably tired of changing residences.

All this said, expect for Warner to be the team's starting QB come game one. Kent Somers said that Leinart will be not be given a quick hook? How quick will it seem when Warner trots out with the offense versus the 49ers?

IMO, Warner deserves to be the starter...he performed more than well enough last year to merit the job. Yes, the coaches want to see him protect the ball better...but they have already been stressing this with him.

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...he gives the team the best chance to win, because he can make the throws that Whiz and Haley want, more than just a tad better than Leinart.

It's really this simple.

Do you want to know what is simple? Warner played as big of a role in our losses as he did in our wins. That adds up to about .500 season. Do you remember the last game of the season against the Rams? He had 2 interceptions in that game that even a rookie should never throw.

Instead of debating this we should embrace the fact that we have 2 capable guys that can go out and , with the help of their surrounding cast, lead this team to a victory on any given Sunday.

Instead of coming to the conclusion that Leinart just ain't good enough we should actually consider what he is capable of. Why should we assume he has regressed since his injury. He's gotten stronger. He's dedicated himself to the organization. He has studied the playbook. He has always been a winner. His head coach has told you and everybody else how good the kid has looked this spring. What else do you want to hear?

Yeah right. Leinart is starting cause the Cards don't want to pay Warner. Absurd.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Huh? I forget already, whats up?

Here, I am glad to refresh your memory.

cardsfanmd is just so knowledgeable. He must be the greatest poster of all time.