The Walking Dead (AMC)

[BigRedRage]

Hey cheesebeef, I know you don't like the entire Glenn thing but how are you going to react if it's not him after all the misdirection? LOL.

Honestly, I think that's where it's going. Abraham said his goodbye's in the finale. Not to mention his "death" from the comics was stolen to keep him alive for another purpose. I think this was it.

For some reason I am getting the feeling that they want to keep the Maggie/Glenn thing going to give the audience something else to cheer for.

I am ok if we keep Glenn, I do like Glenn a lot and the show is supposed to be different from the comic in its own ways otherwise why would comic fans even watch it if they knew everything? I mean, Carols daughter is supposed to be alive still and she died in season 2.

The whole putting all your eggs in one winnebago was probably the toughest pill to swallow. Having zero contingency plan wasn't their style either.

Regardless, they've done enough to keep me in until next season.

Wasn't much of their style but I could also see doing it anyway to protect Maggie while getting her to a doctor. This miscarriage or whatever is happening could kill her and it was important to get her there and they are knowingly leaving with the concern of possible battles on the road and needed people to keep her alive. Again that leaves Alexandria vulnerable but I think they also had no idea still at the time that the saviors were who they are and probably thought a few guards could easily handle them if they come.

letting your only doctor go out to look for stuff was beyond idiotic as well.

I hated bringing her but if shes demanding to go and ays she will go alone, its not a bad idea to just go with her. Now if they would have just not used the tracks...

 

[oaken1]

Negan recognized that Carl is a nutcase,.. thus the "future serial killer" comment. He is not an idiot...if he killed Carl or Rick he would have to kill them both right then...because there is no way the other would be controlled or bowing down to him.


it seems the Winnebago crew left Alexandria pretty light when it comes to defense.... didn't they come into a supply of rockets, grenades, things of that nature? Should have just blasted/blew up that first group they ran into...it was a small group...and it once again eats into the numbers of the saviors.

gotta kinda wonder though...how a group that big was able to establish itself so close to Alexandria and nobody knew about it.. Did they migrate into the area or something?

Kinda looking forward to seeing what they do with the nerd brigade....horses, lances, makeshift armor...I am guessing it is a group of nerds living out their medieval fantasy....either that or a poorly outfitted SCA group....

 

[BigRedRage]

Negan recognized that Carl is a nutcase,.. thus the "future serial killer" comment. He is not an idiot...if he killed Carl or Rick he would have to kill them both right then...because there is no way the other would be controlled or bowing down to him.


it seems the Winnebago crew left Alexandria pretty light when it comes to defense.... didn't they come into a supply of rockets, grenades, things of that nature? Should have just blasted/blew up that first group they ran into...it was a small group...and it once again eats into the numbers of the saviors.

gotta kinda wonder though...how a group that big was able to establish itself so close to Alexandria and nobody knew about it.. Did they migrate into the area or something?

Kinda looking forward to seeing what they do with the nerd brigade....horses, lances, makeshift armor...I am guessing it is a group of nerds living out their medieval fantasy....either that or a poorly outfitted SCA group....

I don't remember any explosive cache.

I am assuming negan's group has been around for a while in the area but maybe they are newer, they knew all about Alexandria.

I assume there will be full episodes centered around them just like there were with the governors group

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[Bada0Bing]

I don't remember any explosive cache.

I am assuming negan's group has been around for a while in the area but maybe they are newer, they knew all about Alexandria.

I assume there will be full episodes centered around them just like there were with the governors group

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Exactly. Watch, the entire first half of season 7 will be Negan flashbacks and they won't reveal the death until the second half of the season.

 

[Stout]

I think killing Abraham will be a non-moment for most people watching the show and does nothing to make me fear Negan as a real threat.

and man, the machinations of plot that the writers had to come up with to get ALL of the group (save Morgan and Carol) just seem even more ridiculous in hindsight. It was like they started the season with we need Negan to stand before all our cast members to kill one of them... but we don't want his people to storm Alexandria because they've already done that with the Prison... so it's has to be he captures them out in the open. Then, they worked backward to plot how the characters would get there... which forced them to ignore who the characters are and how they usually operate.

That's what I'm talking about with plot moving story forward rather then characters doing it.

Authorial need, and forcibly smashing plots into place to fulfill it, can absolutely kill a story.

 

[D-Dogg]

Another theory would be that Carl is the victim. (Although it would be hard to accept that Rick would not react in this case)
His previous dialogue in the armory with the girl.
Plus the audience does not like Carl and the series in the past has gotten rid off characters that were not liked even if they are alive the comic and distributing future story lines on other characters instead.

I love Coral. My daughter and her friends all do too. Don't mess with coral.

 

[chickenhead]

If it's Abraham, I think the mistake is not that it's him, but that they didn't show it (not that I'm looking forward to it). I'll concede that he's not tier 1 and therefore doesn't necessarily hold suspense across a break between seasons. But within this particular episode, given what transpired with him--and especially if they showed Rosita, Eugene, and Sasha's reactions--it would have been powerful.

Important to remember that his death would not be nothing to them. Sasha has already gone nihilistic once. Rosita may be heading that way now. Eugene might either make a big leap because of this, or could withdraw again (they're obv setting him up for a leap).

Anyway, it also would surprise me if keeping the victim's identity unrevealed as a cliffhanger was a network note...

 

[BigRedRage]

I love Coral. My daughter and her friends all do too. Don't mess with coral.

CORAL!!!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

If it's Abraham, I think the mistake is not that it's him, but that they didn't show it (not that I'm looking forward to it). I'll concede that he's not tier 1 and therefore doesn't necessarily hold suspense across a break between seasons. But within this particular episode, given what transpired with him--and especially if they showed Rosita, Eugene, and Sasha's reactions--it would have been powerful.

Important to remember that his death would not be nothing to them. Sasha has already gone nihilistic once. Rosita may be heading that way now. Eugene might either make a big leap because of this, or could withdraw again (they're obv setting him up for a leap).

Anyway, it also would surprise me if keeping the victim's identity unrevealed as a cliffhanger was a network note...

I guess my issue with Abraham's death being powerful lies in what you wrote. You spoke about how awful his death would be and what it would to Rosita, Sasha and Eugene... But those are all cpmpletely tertiary characters in the show who I could care less about. Those people being devastated means nothing in the grand scheme of the show. Would anyone bat an eye if any of them died? Rosita and Sasha have absolutely zero character to speak of and Eugene is a liar, turned coward, turned guy who thinks he's a hero but every time he tries to be heroic, ends up kidnapped by the bad guys within five seconds.

Anything that pertains to that trio physically or emotionally doesn't make a dent in the show for me and I'm guessing most others watching.

 

[Covert Rain]

I guess my issue with Abraham's death being powerful lies in what you wrote. You spoke about how awful his death would be and what it would to Rosita, Sasha and Eugene... But those are all cpmpletely tertiary characters in the show who I could care less about. Those people being devastated means nothing in the grand scheme of the show. Would anyone bat an eye if any of them died? Rosita and Sasha have absolutely zero character to speak of and Eugene is a liar, turned coward, turned guy who thinks he's a hero but every time he tries to be heroic, ends up kidnapped by the bad guys within five seconds.

Anything that pertains to that trio physically or emotionally doesn't make a dent in the show for me and I'm guessing most others watching.

I agree with everything you said except Eugene. I think Eugene is one of the most intriguing characters on the show because he represents how probably a vast majority of people would in the same scenario react (lying, running, screwing up etc.). The average person simply wouldn't turn into a Rick.

Sasha and Rosita? I have never been vested in either of their characters so if Negan killed them? Meh. Abraham is s step above them IMO but not by much only because of how the writers treated his character. They could have done so much more IMO.

Too bad Carol wasn't there. Honestly, they have taken a good character and made her so annoying IMO. If she was there, she would be a main character and they could off her and kill two birds with one stone.

 

[BigRedRage]

I agree with everything you said except Eugene. I think Eugene is one of the most intriguing characters on the show because he represents how probably a vast majority of people would in the same scenario react (lying, running, screwing up etc.). The average person simply wouldn't turn into a Rick.

Sasha and Rosita? I have never been vested in either of their characters so if Negan killed them? Meh. Abraham is s step above them IMO but not by much only because of how the writers treated his character. They could have done so much more IMO.

Too bad Carol wasn't there. Honestly, they have taken a good character and made her so annoying IMO. If she was there, she would be a main character and they could off her and kill two birds with one stone.

I am thinking that Morgan killing that guy will 180 Carol back to the Carol we love.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am thinking that Morgan killing that guy will 180 Carol back to the Carol we love.

why couldn't morgan have just shot the guy in the leg or arm? That too felt like plot moving characters forward.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with everything you said except Eugene. I think Eugene is one of the most intriguing characters on the show because he represents how probably a vast majority of people would in the same scenario react (lying, running, screwing up etc.). The average person simply wouldn't turn into a Rick.

Sasha and Rosita? I have never been vested in either of their characters so if Negan killed them? Meh. Abraham is s step above them IMO but not by much only because of how the writers treated his character. They could have done so much more IMO.

Too bad Carol wasn't there. Honestly, they have taken a good character and made her so annoying IMO. If she was there, she would be a main character and they could off her and kill two birds with one stone.

My problem with how they handled Carol was it could have been a good arc... if it didn't come absolutely out of nowhere. Bigger beef with the execution there then the concept.

 

[BigRedRage]

why couldn't morgan have just shot the guy in the leg or arm? That too felt like plot moving characters forward.

Because he is changing too and realizing that he is going to have to kill if he wants to be part of the group?

 

[Covert Rain]

My problem with how they handled Carol was it could have been a good arc... if it didn't come absolutely out of nowhere. Bigger beef with the execution there then the concept.

I think that was my problem too. She went from this unrelenting bad-ass to this mess of a person in 2.2 seconds flat. She was curled up in a freaking ball the last few episodes. I mean come on. The Carol they spent several seasons developing wouldn't come to that IMO.

Honestly, if she died I wouldn't bat an eye. They have ruined her character for me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Because he is changing too and realizing that he is going to have to kill if he wants to be part of the group?

why? I haven't seen any evidence of that throughout the season. Even in the last episode with Rick, he was STILL pedaling the same thing he'd been peddling all season. Characters need to show progression for me to buy metamorphosis. I can't just see something all of a sudden go from 1-10 and not wonder what the hell happened to steps 2-9.

 

[BigRedRage]

I think that was my problem too. She went from this unrelenting bad-ass to this mess of a person in 2.2 seconds flat. She was curled up in a freaking ball the last few episodes. I mean come on. The Carol they spent several seasons developing wouldn't come to that IMO.

Honestly, if she died I wouldn't bat an eye. They have ruined her character for me.

IMO the crying in a ball thing is all an act to ambush potential attackers.

why?

Since their fight you can tell he has been a little less concrete in his ways and then when he left to chase carol down and is seeing the types of people they are running in to, you pretty much have to kill or they will kill you as they are in groups and heavily armed.

Compound all of that with him having a friendship with carol and the guy is shooting her over and over, torturing her and etc, he pulled the trigger and he did it fervently. 5-6 bullets was not necessary but it was a coming out party for him realizing he cannot be 100% peaceful and still protect the people he loves.

JMHO and how I took it.

 

[Covert Rain]

IMO the crying in a ball thing is all an act to ambush potential attackers.

No, she has been emotionally distraught. When she was sitting in the doorway out in the open, walking in a daze, giving up, rambling and trying to avoid walkers. None of that was acting to avoid potential attackers.

They spent all these seasons developing her character to stand up for herself, to stop letting people dictate her life and fight back. Then trashed all of that in matter of episodes.

It's piss poor writing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, she has been emotionally distraught. When she was sitting int he doorway out in the open, walking in a daze, giving up, rambling and trying to avoid walkers. None of that was acting to avoid potential attackers.

They spent all these seasons developing her character to stand up for herself, to stop letting people dictate her life and fight back. Then trashed all of that in matter of episodes.

It's piss poor writing.

yeah, I think there's been interviews with the show-runners even saying Carol's breakdown moments are actually real. I feel like this is just a case of someone loving the show so much, they can convince themselves of things that aren't actually happening when big missteps are being made.

 

[chickenhead]

I guess my issue with Abraham's death being powerful lies in what you wrote. You spoke about how awful his death would be and what it would to Rosita, Sasha and Eugene... But those are all cpmpletely tertiary characters in the show who I could care less about. Those people being devastated means nothing in the grand scheme of the show. Would anyone bat an eye if any of them died? Rosita and Sasha have absolutely zero character to speak of and Eugene is a liar, turned coward, turned guy who thinks he's a hero but every time he tries to be heroic, ends up kidnapped by the bad guys within five seconds.

Anything that pertains to that trio physically or emotionally doesn't make a dent in the show for me and I'm guessing most others watching.

That's fair, and I agree their deaths won't make the same impact. For me, though, they maybe make a little more impact because there are still only so many characters in the group. Any reduction is a step towards the end of civilization (based on our limited view of the new world). Abraham's wife and kids are probably dead, and if he dies, that's the end of that family. Sasha was Bob's sister and Bob is dead, so if she dies, that's the end of that family. Abraham dying ends the possibility of a reconciliation with Rosita or a new relationship with Sasha. I realize that this is me doing a lot of work for the show here, but it's why I view them as a bit more than tertiary.

 

[BigRedRage]

No, she has been emotionally distraught. When she was sitting in the doorway out in the open, walking in a daze, giving up, rambling and trying to avoid walkers. None of that was acting to avoid potential attackers.

They spent all these seasons developing her character to stand up for herself, to stop letting people dictate her life and fight back. Then trashed all of that in matter of episodes.

It's piss poor writing.

I figured her in the doorway was her just being stressed out from leaving everyone behind, still having to battle and in pain from her open wound trying to relax and stay alive. The "Act" I am referring to whenever she has run into saviors and went over the top emotional before slaughtering everyone.

 

[BigRedRage]

yeah, I think there's been interviews with the show-runners even saying Carol's breakdown moments are actually real. I feel like this is just a case of someone loving the show so much, they can convince themselves of things that aren't actually happening when big missteps are being made.

I just assumed the sobby, shaking Carol was BS as every time she does it, she then murders everyone around her ambush style.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just assumed the sobby, shaking Carol was BS as every time she does it, she then murders everyone around her ambush style.

Yeah but go back on re-watch the last few episodes. Some of those scenes take place even when she is not in the presence of the Saviors.

 

[oaken1]

with Carol...it seams to me,...the big switch came when she let herself get a boyfriend. She started to feel again,....then meeting that savior chick,...she recognized what she herself had become,...because she was far worse than the savior chick when it came to body count....... she had to face herself and she did not like what she saw.... at some point she will have to reconcile that her moral standards are based upon a world that is dead....or she will die.

 

[Cheesebeef]

with Carol...it seams to me,...the big switch came when she let herself get a boyfriend.

again... another issue with the writing/plot here. the above certainly could be, but considering we missed how Carol let her guard down, why and how/if the relationship meant anything to her, nothing that came of it seemed motivated in any way shape or form.