There are 3 Top 10 RT's on an Ice Cold Market Right Now

[Cbus cardsfan]

There's question marks with all 3 of those guys.

Smith has played well but he could come to camp weighing 400+.

There has to be some reason that Winston will be on his 3rd team in 3 years.

Clabo is on the down side of his career.

Massie will continue to improve. When you see the improvement from the 1st half of the year to 2nd half, it's more likley that he'll continue that upward ascent than stagnate. It shows he's willing to work, learn, and put the time in to be a better player.

 

[Mitch]

There's question marks with all 3 of those guys.

Smith has played well but he could come to camp weighing 400+.

There has to be some reason that Winston will be on his 3rd team in 3 years.

Clabo is on the down side of his career.

Massie will continue to improve. When you see the improvement from the 1st half of the year to 2nd half, it's more likley that he'll continue that upward ascent than stagnate. It shows he's willing to work, learn, and put the time in to be a better player.

I think throwing Clabo into the mix would be an excellent move---a combination of him and Bobby Massie on the right side, with either Clabo at RG and Massie at RT or vice versa, would be very effective.

Clabo is a Steve Keim kind of player, from Keim's old scouting turf (I bet that Keim still has his scouting notes on Clabo)---therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if Keim has already called his agent.

The other excellent fit who is still available is RG Brandon Moore. He could be the kind of veteran player who solidifies and galvanizes the whole line. Meanwhile it would give the Cardinals time to continue to develop Senio Kelemete.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

My only comment is that Winston is all hype. Dare I say, no better then Bobby Massie.

That is all.

 

[JeffGollin]

Bunk! Massie is a freaking player and was lights out the last 8 weeks of the season. throwing money at any of those three would be a complete and utter waste!

Massie improved to a point where he could handle RT responsibilities fairly well and is on his way to fulfilling a terrific upside, but to say he was freakin' lights out might be a bit of a reach.

 

[PDXChris]

As Jureki has pointed out, we will address the OL in the draft first and then hit the free agent market. These players will not be signed between now and then since most teams are in the same boat. The plan has worked well so far, lets see how the rest of the month works out. Knee jerk reactions do nothing but set you back in the long run.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Eaxactly banky.

Play the market. Someones gonna get Clabo and Smith or Winston on a 1 year prove it deal. Andre Smith on a 1 year deal would be Ammmmmmmazing IMO. But let the draft play out. Nothing but leverage.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

Depending on the price for these Tackles, I am all for signing one and letting them compete in camp. Between Brown, Massie and whoever you sign, let them battle it out and create depth if you have injuries down the road.

I'm sure these tackles will be looking to start but in a cold market and hot OT draft they will need to fight to stay relevant.

^----

I don't understand the logic "If Massie is good, then lets not worry about it". Did anybody see our line last year? If Massie is as good as some think he is, he should have no problem beating one of these guys out at camp if he is signed. The guy who's not starting becomes not only depth, but RELIABLE depth. That's something we have never had.

 

[Goldfield]

Andre, no probably not. I was leaning more towards Winston or Clabo. Each a little older, but still both have a good 4-5 years left. Both would be lockdown RTs from day 1 and youd never have to worry about em.


And didnt I already make my point about Massie? I even put **'s to signify LOOK AT THIS.

Massie - We hope he will grow and improve, but WHAT IF he starts off the year like he did last year, Palmer is knocked out week 3. Seasons pretty much over. Do you really want another Last Season, again?


Theres a maybe in Massie

Theres a sure thing in Clabo or Winston


Im sick of "next year". Lets improve THIS year with a sure thing NOW.





Keep your snobby jerk comments to yourself.

Apparently you dont know as much as you think you do because Massies run blocking graded out higher than his pass blocking did.

I agree about the stupid comments. What's wrong with some of you? You would never talk to someone like that to their face, because you would get your teeth kicked in.

I would love to sign a guy who could upgrade the line. We need depth also. Let's see what the draft brings.

 

[Chopper0080]

You're not going to lock up Andre Smith at a discount for four years. If you could sign him for 4 years, $8M, he would have signed by now.

You can get one of those guys at a discount for ONE year. Maybe.

You already have Bobbie Massie for three more seasons for essentially nothing. He's not going to learn sitting on the bench.

Agree with a couple points in this.

First, what is the point of stunting the growth of a young, cheap RT for a 1 year deal with a vet RT. Having too many LTs is a good problem. Having a bunch of expensive RTs is a waste of financial resources. We have Levi Brown and Bobby Massie who are both decent RTs. How does it benefit your team to spend another 4 mil on a vet RT for one year?

Secondly, players do not really learn on the bench. Once the season starts, almost all of the reps go to the starting players. Because of that, replacing Massie with a marginally better RT for one season only stunts his growth and puts the team in a worse position in 2015.

My hope is that while we are upgrading the offensive line through the draft, we keep Massie at RT. He has the athletic ability and has shown improvement with every game he has played in. This is the main reason I am more for drafting Chance Warmack rather than Lane Johnson. With Warmack and Massie, I believe we have two positions set with cheap, talented players. Levi Brown can be servicable over the next 2 or 3 years at LT and we should be able to develop a better C and LG over that time as well.

 

[Goldfield]

Agree with a couple points in this.

First, what is the point of stunting the growth of a young, cheap RT for a 1 year deal with a vet RT. Having too many LTs is a good problem. Having a bunch of expensive RTs is a waste of financial resources. We have Levi Brown and Bobby Massie who are both decent RTs. How does it benefit your team to spend another 4 mil on a vet RT for one year?

Secondly, players do not really learn on the bench. Once the season starts, almost all of the reps go to the starting players. Because of that, replacing Massie with a marginally better RT for one season only stunts his growth and puts the team in a worse position in 2015.

My hope is that while we are upgrading the offensive line through the draft, we keep Massie at RT. He has the athletic ability and has shown improvement with every game he has played in. This is the main reason I am more for drafting Chance Warmack rather than Lane Johnson. With Warmack and Massie, I believe we have two positions set with cheap, talented players. Levi Brown can be servicable over the next 2 or 3 years at LT and we should be able to develop a better C and LG over that time as well.

That's a good point. If Massie gets injured we could always swing Brown over to RT.

 

[Chopper0080]

That's a good point. If Massie gets injured we could always swing Brown over to RT.

Which is why I believe we will sign Max Starks if we don't draft a LT high. I would be very happy seeing us draft Warmack/Cooper and Barrett Jones, and then signing Max Starks to backup at LT.

My lock of the draft. The Cardinals will not draft a RT only player.

 

[Stronso]

I understand everyones point but from a 30,000 foot view it just seems stupid not to pickup a top tackle at a discounted price for the team that had the worst OL in football..

If you can pick up a top, experienced T on the cheap it is borderline irresponsible to not do it.

Our OL was decimated by injuries and a lack of experience. Also if we can do a shuffle on the line and maybe get rid of Snyder or Colledge's contracts for something more advantageous to the Big Red it would be worth looking into

 

[Stronso]

Agree with a couple points in this.

First, what is the point of stunting the growth of a young, cheap RT for a 1 year deal with a vet RT. Having too many LTs is a good problem. Having a bunch of expensive RTs is a waste of financial resources. We have Levi Brown and Bobby Massie who are both decent RTs. How does it benefit your team to spend another 4 mil on a vet RT for one year?

Secondly, players do not really learn on the bench. Once the season starts, almost all of the reps go to the starting players. Because of that, replacing Massie with a marginally better RT for one season only stunts his growth and puts the team in a worse position in 2015.

My hope is that while we are upgrading the offensive line through the draft, we keep Massie at RT. He has the athletic ability and has shown improvement with every game he has played in. This is the main reason I am more for drafting Chance Warmack rather than Lane Johnson. With Warmack and Massie, I believe we have two positions set with cheap, talented players. Levi Brown can be servicable over the next 2 or 3 years at LT and we should be able to develop a better C and LG over that time as well.

We all hope that Massie continues to develop as he had been. My hope is that he develops at an even more rapid pace with the focused teaching of the new OL coaches. But it is still good to have depth and flexibility on the cheap

I want to draft Warmack for all the reasons you mentioned above but still retain more flexibility if at all possible

 

[kerouac9]

It sounds like Bodha really wants Winston on a $3M-type one year deal. The thing with that is Eric Winston is clearly a very solid zone-blocking tackle. The reason why he was cut by the Chiefs is because they're going to be a primarily man-blocking scheme, and he doesn't have value in that system.

I don't know what we're going to run, but it seems to me like if we're going to keep Levi Brown at LT and we're happy enough with the guards that we have that we're not making a move, we're going to keep the concepts that we used under Whis in place (keep in mind that Arians didn't change the Whis playbook when he was OC in Pittsburgh, he just simplified it to what the players were comfortable with).

I don't think that Winston is a scheme fit for what we're going to be doing.

 

[red desert]

Andre Smith is a top 3.
Tyson Clabo is a top 10.
Eric Winston was a top 5 2 years ago. Hes probably still top 10.


The market is Ice Cold, so worrying about affording these guys isnt an issue. We could pickup a premier RT for a huge discount.

*Massie* - We could either hope and wait to see if Massie turns into our RT OTF, or sign a proven, plug and forget-about-him, lockdown Rt, right now. What if Massie doesnt improve? Do you think Palmer can survive the littany of sacks?

Id rather get a sure thing.

Besides, you can put him at guard, and hed thrive because hes a great run blocker. Thatd open up the draft so much. We could go get Warmack and have 2 lockdown G's and 2 solid T's.OR we could go after the best pass rusher available.


I say going after one of these RT's would be such a win for us. Youll never see an opportunity like this again.

Remember last year when we needed a LT after Levi went down? Demetress Bell was getting wined and dined by at least 10 teams, and that dudes a bum. These 3 RT's are some of the best in the game.


and ask Kolb if RT is less important than a LT. A sacks a sack.

I've contemplating this for a while now. Absolutely the way we should go.

 

[PDXChris]

It sounds like Bodha really wants Winston on a $3M-type one year deal. The thing with that is Eric Winston is clearly a very solid zone-blocking tackle. The reason why he was cut by the Chiefs is because they're going to be a primarily man-blocking scheme, and he doesn't have value in that system.

I don't know what we're going to run, but it seems to me like if we're going to keep Levi Brown at LT and we're happy enough with the guards that we have that we're not making a move, we're going to keep the concepts that we used under Whis in place (keep in mind that Arians didn't change the Whis playbook when he was OC in Pittsburgh, he just simplified it to what the players were comfortable with).

I don't think that Winston is a scheme fit for what we're going to be doing.

I agree with everythign except for the G play. I think the only reason one has not been released one of them is due to the draft. I we go with Warmack, then Snyder is gone IMO. Releasing him does nothing for the cap this year as the dead money equals his salary, but then he is off the books next year. I also think Colledge is slighly better than Snyder, which is not saying much.

 

[JeffGollin]

We all hope that Massie continues to develop as he had been. My hope is that he develops at an even more rapid pace with the focused teaching of the new OL coaches. But it is still good to have depth and flexibility on the cheap

I want to draft Warmack for all the reasons you mentioned above but still retain more flexibility if at all possible

Dat!

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with everythign except for the G play. I think the only reason one has not been released one of them is due to the draft. I we go with Warmack, then Snyder is gone IMO. Releasing him does nothing for the cap this year as the dead money equals his salary, but then he is off the books next year. I also think Colledge is slighly better than Snyder, which is not saying much.

I think that guard play improves because D'Anthony Batiste won't be starting LT and Bobbie Massie won't be making the leap from Ol' Miss. I also think that if we really thought we had nothing at the guard position, then we would have signed a depth player by now to at least compete.

I would guess that the FO (Keim) likes Colledge as an adequate starter, but not as the prospective best player on your line. I bet the coaching staff likes Snyder at least as a swing lineman who could probably play all 5 line positions as a backup.

Because of his versatility, I think we'd keep Snyder over Colledge if we're going to draft Cooper, Warmack, or Johnson, but I'm not sure that we'd release either until at least after the draft and the staff can see how Kelemete's developed, and even if Kelemente's going to be able to start, both are upgrades at the backup positions across the line.

 

[Redheart]

lights out? no one on that line was lights out last season, at any point IMO.

Maybe he meant "lights out for the QB"...

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I agree about the stupid comments. What's wrong with some of you? You would never talk to someone like that to their face, because you would get your teeth kicked in.

Wow, that escalated quickly. A couple of things about this first:

1. I do talk to people "like that" to their face, and no, I don't get my teeth kicked in.

2. This is 2013, not 2003. We should all have developed think enough internet-skin to handle something like I said to Bodha.

If that was a personal threat, let me know. I'm off today so I have time to meet up so you can put me in my place.

Now, the reason I came after Bodha in such a manner is that I'm a bit of a "gunny sacker" when it comes to posting. I don't post 99.9% of the responses I start to type because I ask myself "what am I bringing to the conversation that hasn't been said already?"

First I read something like this: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2820644&postcount=120 which is a pretty ignorant statement to make, essentially condoning driving while impaired, then I read his comment saying that "Massie is a mauler"...which he isn't. He already got called out for saying that driving stoned is 100% safe it in that thread, so I didn't feel the need to pile on. I decided to do it here.

Apparently you dont know as much as you think you do because Massies run blocking graded out higher than his pass blocking did.

I base my opinion of this from actually watching him play coupled with my experience of playing the game for 12 years of my life, not from interpreting something I read on a website somewhere, or their respective Madden ratings.

Want to change my mind? Cite a reference or post a link.

With that said, let Bodha come back and tell me to shut up or report me. So be it. I'll have forgotten about this thread by noon today anyway. I've said what I've felt I needed to say.

I typically shy away from discussing individual players since I have no film to point to in order to make my point. But I made an exception in this case for the above stated reasons.

I would love to sign a guy who could upgrade the line. We need depth also. Let's see what the draft brings.

Me too, as I'm sure most of us would. We have some extra cap space at the moment, so if it fits "the plan", why not?

Clabo may be available for a 1 year ( relatively inexpensive) contract, but he's not that much better than the Massie we saw in weeks 14-17. Winston would be a definite upgrade, but he'll probably demand bigger money with more years. Going that route would require more of a commitment than I believe the Cardinals are willing to make, if they're truly committed to continuing to develop Massie.

 

[PDXChris]

OK, so who is @MikeBiggiz on twitter? Either it is someone in here or they are trying to steal Bohda's thunder.

 

[Shane]

Wow, that escalated quickly. A couple of things about this first:

1. I do talk to people "like that" to their face, and no, I don't get my teeth kicked in.

2. This is 2013, not 2003. We should all have developed think enough internet-skin to handle something like I said to Bodha.

If that was a personal threat, let me know. I'm off today so I have time to meet up so you can put me in my place.

Now, the reason I came after Bodha in such a manner is that I'm a bit of a "gunny sacker" when it comes to posting. I don't post 99.9% of the responses I start to type because I ask myself "what am I bringing to the conversation that hasn't been said already?"

First I read something like this: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2820644&postcount=120 which is a pretty ignorant statement to make, essentially condoning driving while impaired, then I read his comment saying that "Massie is a mauler"...which he isn't. He already got called out for saying that driving stoned is 100% safe it in that thread, so I didn't feel the need to pile on. I decided to do it here.



I base my opinion of this from actually watching him play coupled with my experience of playing the game for 12 years of my life, not from interpreting something I read on a website somewhere, or their respective Madden ratings.

Want to change my mind? Cite a reference or post a link.

With that said, let Bodha come back and tell me to shut up or report me. So be it. I'll have forgotten about this thread by noon today anyway. I've said what I've felt I needed to say.

I typically shy away from discussing individual players since I have no film to point to in order to make my point. But I made an exception in this case for the above stated reasons.



Me too, as I'm sure most of us would. We have some extra cap space at the moment, so if it fits "the plan", why not?

Clabo may be available for a 1 year ( relatively inexpensive) contract, but he's not that much better than the Massie we saw in weeks 14-17. Winston would be a definite upgrade, but he'll probably demand bigger money with more years. Going that route would require more of a commitment than I believe the Cardinals are willing to make, if they're truly committed to continuing to develop Massie.

 

[PDXChris]

1. I do talk to people "like that" to their face, and no, I don't get my teeth kicked in.

That is because you have no teeth.

2. This is 2013, not 2003. We should all have developed think enough internet-skin to handle something like I said to Bodha.

YOU ARE A JERK!!

If that was a personal threat, let me know. I'm off today so I have time to meet up so you can put me in my place.

Now that is not fair, you were glasses. You can't hit someone with glasses.

Now, the reason I came after Bodha in such a manner is that I'm a bit of a "gunny sacker" when it comes to posting. I don't post 99.9% of the responses I start to type because I ask myself "what am I bringing to the conversation that hasn't been said already?"

Then why do you post at all?

First I read something like this: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2820644&postcount=120 which is a pretty ignorant statement to make, essentially condoning driving while impaired, then I read his comment saying that "Massie is a mauler"...which he isn't. He already got called out for saying that driving stoned is 100% safe it in that thread, so I didn't feel the need to pile on. I decided to do it here.

I got nothin'

I base my opinion of this from actually watching him play coupled with my experience of playing the game for 12 years of my life, not from interpreting something I read on a website somewhere, or their respective Madden ratings.

Show off

Want to change my mind? Cite a reference or post a link.

http://www.amazon.com/Internet-Dummies-John-R-Levine/dp/1118096142

I typically shy away from discussing individual players since I have no film to point to in order to make my point. But I made an exception in this case for the above stated reasons.

So you

You must be registered for see images

Massie?

Love you Ken!!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wow, that escalated quickly. A couple of things about this first:

1. I do talk to people "like that" to their face, and no, I don't get my teeth kicked in.

2. This is 2013, not 2003. We should all have developed think enough internet-skin to handle something like I said to Bodha.

If that was a personal threat, let me know. I'm off today so I have time to meet up so you can put me in my place.

Now, the reason I came after Bodha in such a manner is that I'm a bit of a "gunny sacker" when it comes to posting. I don't post 99.9% of the responses I start to type because I ask myself "what am I bringing to the conversation that hasn't been said already?"

First I read something like this: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2820644&postcount=120 which is a pretty ignorant statement to make, essentially condoning driving while impaired, then I read his comment saying that "Massie is a mauler"...which he isn't. He already got called out for saying that driving stoned is 100% safe it in that thread, so I didn't feel the need to pile on. I decided to do it here.



I base my opinion of this from actually watching him play coupled with my experience of playing the game for 12 years of my life, not from interpreting something I read on a website somewhere, or their respective Madden ratings.

Want to change my mind? Cite a reference or post a link.

With that said, let Bodha come back and tell me to shut up or report me. So be it. I'll have forgotten about this thread by noon today anyway. I've said what I've felt I needed to say.

I typically shy away from discussing individual players since I have no film to point to in order to make my point. But I made an exception in this case for the above stated reasons.



Me too, as I'm sure most of us would. We have some extra cap space at the moment, so if it fits "the plan", why not?

Clabo may be available for a 1 year ( relatively inexpensive) contract, but he's not that much better than the Massie we saw in weeks 14-17. Winston would be a definite upgrade, but he'll probably demand bigger money with more years. Going that route would require more of a commitment than I believe the Cardinals are willing to make, if they're truly committed to continuing to develop Massie.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

LOL. Even I never threatened to meet K9 outside

Its all good. Lets not take ourselves too seriously. Message boards are for opinions and when you have strong ones, there is going to be dissent.

As long as it doesnt go too far over the line (and I imagine Ihave treaded that line from time to time) then like Ken said, its the internet. Trying being somone famous on Twitter. Its ten times worse.