Thinking Cardinals 8/16/11

Crazy Canuck

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If Fitz does leave it will suck sure. But will hardly be the end of the world or set the franchise in the dark ages like many hear claim.

Plain and simply put he is just a WR. If and it's a big if Kolb becomes who we all hope he will be. The face of the franchise will not be Fitz and that is a good
thing. The fact that a WR is our current face is nit a good thing no matter how good a guy Fitz is.

There are wide receivers... and then there are WIDE RECEIVERS!

(And I can't see why this franchise can't have two faces, so to speak)

San Franciso arguably had two. Montana / Rice and then Young / Rice)
 

az jam

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If Fitz does leave it will suck sure. But will hardly be the end of the world or set the franchise in the dark ages like many hear claim.

Plain and simply put he is just a WR. If and it's a big if Kolb becomes who we all hope he will be. The face of the franchise will not be Fitz and that is a good
thing. The fact that a WR is our current face is nit a good thing no matter how good a guy Fitz is.

I couldn't agree with you more. Kolb is the future of the franchise and a franchise qb is worth a lot more than an all-pro WR. I certainly want to keep Fitz and sure hope he signs. However IMO, what Kolb does will have the biggest impact on our team this year.
 

Cheesebeef

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Are we still on topic, or is Chris_Sanders going to trash posts?

we're still talking football... see no reason why chris should trash anything we're saying.

and here's the bigger point... look at the type of FA we got... we got guys who GOOD teams let go of... guys in their PRIME that good teams let go of. that usually means their damaged goods. those are the type of guys we brought in and almost NONE of them had an impact we wanted, except for Warner, who pretty much the miracle of all miracles... TWICE in his career.

it's why signing guys who have been discarded from GOOD programs doesn't excite me all that much. The Packer/Eagles have shown a pretty keen ability on when to fish and when to cut bait, thus Colledge and Bradley make me antsy. Teams you should be poaching from aren't cast-offs from good teams because they're cast-offs for a reason. You get good talent from teams who make BAD decisions... like us... or the Bengals who had a very good CB get out of their house. You steal players away... not pick them up off the scrap heap. But THAT requires you to SPEND. Something I don't think this team is ultimately willing to do, at least not to the depths needed to take us out of the mess they created for themselves last year.
 

Cheesebeef

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There are wide receivers... and then there are WIDE RECEIVERS!

(And I can't see why this franchise can't have two faces, so to speak)

San Franciso arguably had two. Montana / Rice and then Young / Rice)

agree with this.
 

Cheesebeef

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and Shane, if Fitz leaves, it's most likely because Kolb either isn't good... or he's dead because the O-line got him killed (or because the d is atrocious... fixed that for ya Mulli). either way, they're screwed.
 
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Mulli

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and Shane, if Fitz leaves, it's most likely because Kolb either isn't good... or he's dead because the O-line got him killed. either way, they're screwed.
I thought Fitz was leaving because we didn't sign a backup NT or an OLB who has 21 sacks in 7 years.
 

Cheesebeef

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I thought Fitz was leaving because we didn't sign a backup NT or an OLB who has 21 sacks in 7 years.

he'll be leaving for a lot of reasons Mulli.

why do people keep bringing up the backup NT? who ever complained about that? or this OLB you bring up? you quoted me in your response so I assume your projecting those players on to me, but i've been pretty consistent that this team whiffed at WR, T and CB. and i do think there were OLB that were better than Porter's rotting corpse.

oh, and Edge signed with us 11 days after FA started. and after looking for a while (got some time on my hands with my script awaiting approval) I can't find a single report showing him even visiting ONE team other than us during that time period.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...-edgerrin-jame-visit-will-continue-69530.html
 

Mulli

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he'll be leaving for a lot of reasons Mulli.

why do people keep bringing up the backup NT? who ever complained about that? or this OLB you bring up? you quoted me in your response so I assume your projecting those players on to me, but i've been pretty consistent that this team whiffed at WR, T and CB. and i do think there were OLB that were better than Porter's rotting corpse.

oh, and Edge signed with us 11 days after FA started. and after looking for a while (got some time on my hands with my script awaiting approval) I can't find a single report showing him even visiting ONE team other than us during that time period.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...-edgerrin-jame-visit-will-continue-69530.html
Question: Cards are supposed to sing core players right? Is there something to be said for them trying to develop the youngsters at OLB and WR so there is young core for them to keep? T I have nothing positive to say about the T's.

Backup NT and Matt Roth has been brought up by several, but I am not allowed to say by whom.
 

JeffGollin

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You know all about the old adage: Don't get too high or too low?

I think the same things apply to our FO, our coaches etc. We give them too much credit when things go good and blame when they go bad.

Sometimes luck plays a part in the way things unfold. And of course, sometimes mistakes are made.

On that note, a question we should ask is: "Do our coaches and the FO learn from their mistakes? Or do they perpetuate a pattern of impulsiveness, timidity, pettiness, stubbornness or other pathological stuff that gets in the way of their being effective?

I think Michael B makes better decisions than his Old Man, Rod G is making better decisions than he was making back in the Coach Mac days and Wiz is bright and open minded enough to recognize his own strengths and weaknesses.

I don't think we can ask for much more.
 
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Mulli

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You know all about the old adage: Don't get too high or too low?

I think the same things apply to our FO, urge coaches etc. We give them too much credit when things go good and blame when they goi bad.

Sometimes luck plays a part in the way things unfold. And of course, sometimes mistakes are made.

On that note, a question we should ask is: "Do our coaches and the FO learn from their mistakes? Or do they perpetuate a pattern of impulsiveness, timidity, pettiness, stubbornness or other pathological stuff that gets in the way of their being effectiveness.

I'll say this: I believe Michael B. Has avoided many of the mistakes of his Old Man and that Rod G is operating better now than he did back in the Coach Mac days. (And Wiz seems to be pretty open minded about understanding his own strengths and weaknesses as well).

I don't think we can expect much more. We just have to hope that the good moves outweigh the bad ones.
Wisdom.
 

DoTheDew

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The Cardinals could have added:

WR Lee Evans
OLB Matt Roth
T Jared Gaither

And still be $5M under the cap. Money they could use on adding a SS and a backup NT.

Maybe they could have or maybe they couldn't. There's more to acquiring a player then simply being interested and making an offer. We don't know that Roth and Gaither would have wanted to come here. We also don't know what the inner workings of the Evans trade were. Just because we had the assets to get it done doesn't mean the logistics were there. In spite of what many believe, players actually consider more then just the dollar figure when picking a team.

They look at the system. They ask themselves if they like the staff. They ask themselves and their families if they'd like to live in that area. I'm sick of this mentality some have that every player on the market is ours for the taking and if we don't get him the blame falls solely on us. None of us really know the inner workings of each transaction and it is dishonest to claim otherwise.


Now, as for Beanie, I think I agree that he is on his way out if not this year, then next and I am going to be very upset when it happens. He is talented but once again Whiz wants to force players to play the game his way instead of letting players play to their strengths. Like Thomas Jones, I see Beanie going elsewhere and having 1000+ yard seasons on a regular basis.
 

Mulli

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Maybe they could have or maybe they couldn't. There's more to acquiring a player then simply being interested and making an offer. We don't know that Roth and Gaither would have wanted to come here. We also don't know what the inner workings of the Evans trade were. Just because we had the assets to get it done doesn't mean the logistics were there. In spite of what many believe, players actually consider more then just the dollar figure when picking a team.

They look at the system. They ask themselves if they like the staff. They ask themselves and their families if they'd like to live in that area. I'm sick of this mentality some have that every player on the market is ours for the taking and if we don't get him the blame falls solely on us. None of us really know the inner workings of each transaction and it is dishonest to claim otherwise.


Now, as for Beanie, I think I agree that he is on his way out if not this year, then next and I am going to be very upset when it happens. He is talented but once again Whiz wants to force players to play the game his way instead of letting players play to their strengths. Like Thomas Jones, I see Beanie going elsewhere and having 1000+ yard seasons on a regular basis.
What are Wells' strengths besides the stiffarm?
 

az jam

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Question: Cards are supposed to sing core players right? Is there something to be said for them trying to develop the youngsters at OLB and WR so there is young core for them to keep? T I have nothing positive to say about the T's.

Backup NT and Matt Roth has been brought up by several, but I am not allowed to say by whom.

He who must not be named - from Harry Potter :D
 

Red Dawn

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oh, and Edge signed with us 11 days after FA started. and after looking for a while (got some time on my hands with my script awaiting approval) I can't find a single report showing him even visiting ONE team other than us during that time period.

I found this:

With plenty of cap room, the Cardinals aggressively pursued James from the Saturday outset of the free agent signing period. They flew him, along with several other free agent targets, into Phoenix on Saturday and negotiated hard into Sunday afternoon before closing the deal. It is not known how many other suitors James attracted, but it's unlikely any of them would have topped the Cardinals' offer.

Tentative stops had been scheduled with other teams Rosenhaus wouldn't identify.

"But this was a no-brainer," the agent said. "It was the first stop and the last stop because it was the best stop."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2365467
 

az jam

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I'll say this: I believe Michael B. Has avoided many of the mistakes of his Old Man and that Rod G is operating better now than he did back in the Coach Mac days. (And Wiz seems to be pretty open minded about understanding his own strengths and weaknesses as well).

I don't think we can expect much more. We just have to hope that the good moves outweigh the bad ones.

Jeff,

It sure helps to have cash flow from a new stadium that has been sold out for every game.
 

Cheesebeef

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Question: Cards are supposed to sing core players right? Is there something to be said for them trying to develop the youngsters at OLB and WR so there is young core for them to keep?

sure... but the two aren't mutually exclusive ideas, especially when core players that the team has lost are still in their prime... or just hitting it.

T I have nothing positive to say about the T's.

Backup NT and Matt Roth has been brought up by several, but I am not allowed to say by whom.

okay. well, then when you're having a conversation with me and throwing those in my face as if I'm saying it, it kinda muddies the discussion, no?
 

Mulli

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sure... but the two aren't mutually exclusive ideas, especially when core players that the team has lost are still in their prime... or just hitting it.



okay. well, then when you're having a conversation with me and throwing those in my face as if I'm saying it, it kinda muddies the discussion, no?
I am sorry if you couldn't keep up with my sarcasm. :)
 

Duckjake

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If Kolb fails and Fitz leaves its no big deal.

Phoenix and Cardinal fans around the world are just fine with 5-11 seasons.

We've proved it for years.
 

Mulli

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try harder. :)
I am declaring myself the winner and throwing down the mike.


iwin.gif
 

Longcolts

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After reading 14 pages of this thread, I have come to one conclusion. If Fitzgerald stays or if Fitzgerald goes I will still be a Cardinals fan. One player does not a team make.
 

Red Dawn

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and yet, in 11 days of FA, he never went anywhere else.

Far be it from me to get too involved in this banter, but from the quote:

With plenty of cap room, the Cardinals aggressively pursued James from the Saturday outset of the free agent signing period.

So if FA started on a Saturday and he flew in on the following Saturday wouldn't that be 7 days?
 

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