Thomas NOT returning

[Cheesebeef]

and honestly, when I see people start blaming the player/agent in MULTIPLE YEARS it starts to remind me of one thing... the Cardinal board three years ago.

This team isn not in the position of getting a "discount" - hopefully - AGAIN - they realize this and get a couple solid guys in here, even though I don't know what the hell they can get splitting the MLE. It's already an interesting offseason, I'm sure it'll get mor einertesting when Boris isn't signed and people start coming out AGAIN and saying his agent wanted too much or he isn't worth it. You know it's coming.

 

[Evil Ash]

OMG. Useless? He is far from useless in the regular season. He might turn it up a gear in the playoffs. However, TT was also rumoured to be unhappy there. That has alot to do with it. Doesn't make it right.

This isn't just from the Bulls this a reputation that has followed him his entire CAREER.

However, TT was still a big body coming off the bench. Yes we need defense and rebounding. However, if you can't find that in free agency then at the very least you need to keep the players that can make an impact.

Ideally I would've loved to have TT back even with his poor work ethic but at a slight discount so that we could sign another backup G. However TT wanted to get paid and therefore it wasn't going to happen

We don't really need impact players. We need players to let our starters get some rest and do a decent job while in there.

We don't need anyone to score like TT off our bench

 

[Evil Ash]

and honestly, when I see people start blaming the player/agent in MULTIPLE YEARS it starts to remind me of one thing... the Cardinal board three years ago.

This team isn not in the position of getting a "discount" - hopefully - AGAIN - they realize this and get a couple solid guys in here, even though I don't know what the hell they can get splitting the MLE. It's already an interesting offseason, I'm sure it'll get mor einertesting when Boris isn't signed and people start coming out AGAIN and saying his agent wanted too much or he isn't worth it. You know it's coming.

If Diaw isn't signed (unless he is asking for the Max), I will drag Sarver through the mud myself

 

[Covert Rain]

We don't really need impact players. We need players to let our starters get some rest and do a decent job while in there.

We don't need anyone to score like TT off our bench

A player who does a decent job off the bench IS AN IMPACT PLAYER. The Suns for years have signed players or bodies to come off the bench and they never do.

This is a fact. D'Antoni shortens his bench as the season goes on. If a player can't score or slows down the offense, he doesn't play. At least with TT you know he could run with the team or never get off the bench. D'Antoni would have seen to that.

So now we get bodies with little chance of impact play or every getting off the bench. This team needs IMPACT players who can actually earn playing time based on their play.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

We need to sign Cassel away from the Clips! It's a moral imperative!

 

[Covert Rain]

We need to sign Cassel away from the Clips! It's a moral imperative!

That would be funny.

 

[Joe Mama]

I still have no problem with the draft. I think they made the right decision with #21 (assuming they would not have taken Marcus Williams even if they had kept the pick), and I honestly could care less about #27. I would have taken the $3 million also.

What if they use the ballclub to the mid-level exception to go after a guard like Speedy Claxton?? I'm not saying that's what they will do, but there are still a lot of options.

Cheese, did anybody really expect JJ to stay here because he wanted to play for the Phoenix Suns? I know that's how a lot of us felt about Tim Thomas, but not JJ. I didn't expect any sort of hometown discount for his contract. I also said repeatedly that I thought he would go to Cleveland to be the second fiddle to LeBron James instead of stay here and be third or fourth best on the Phoenix Suns.

I think the Clippers made a mistake giving Tim Thomas that much money. They must think they are really close to a championship, and I think they are a bit fooled because they played an injured Phoenix Suns team to 7 games in the conference semi finals.

Joe

 

[Goldfield]

and honestly, when I see people start blaming the player/agent in MULTIPLE YEARS it starts to remind me of one thing... the Cardinal board three years ago.

This team isn not in the position of getting a "discount" - hopefully - AGAIN - they realize this and get a couple solid guys in here, even though I don't know what the hell they can get splitting the MLE. It's already an interesting offseason, I'm sure it'll get mor einertesting when Boris isn't signed and people start coming out AGAIN and saying his agent wanted too much or he isn't worth it. You know it's coming.

You keep mentioning DISCOUNT but there are no discounts in pro sports. TT is 6'10 and ISNT a stiff. That alone made it obvious he was gunna get more elseware.

The Suns have 4 good players to fill 3 positions. TT wasnt gunna help as much as he did last year.

The Suns will be better off splitting that money up and filling needs(PG/C)

 

[Covert Rain]

What if they use the ballclub to the mid-level exception to go after a guard like Speedy Claxton?? I'm not saying that's what they will do, but there are still a lot of options.

I think the Clippers made a mistake giving Tim Thomas that much money. They must think they are really close to a championship, and I think they are a bit fooled because they played an injured Phoenix Suns team to 7 games in the conference semi finals.

Joe

God I hope not. Speedy Claxton? That guys is not worth the MLE. That's what I am afraid of. The Suns can't OVERSPEND for players they thought were not worth the MLE before TT signed with the Clips. That's a bigger mistake.

Will TT get the Clips a title? I don't think so but I think they are still better with him then without him.

 

[Goldfield]

If Diaw isn't signed (unless he is asking for the Max), I will drag Sarver through the mud myself

Yup Diaw MUST get signed.

 

[Evil Ash]

A player who does a decent job off the bench IS AN IMPACT PLAYER. The Suns for years have signed players or bodies to come off the bench and they never do.

This is a fact. D'Antoni shortens his bench as the season goes on. If a player can't score or slows down the offense, he doesn't play. At least with TT you know he could run with the team or never get off the bench. D'Antoni would have seen to that.

So now we get bodies with little chance of impact play or every getting off the bench. This team needs IMPACT players who can actually earn playing time based on their play.

Ok so if we signed TT, we wouldn't have a backup to Nash. What do you do then?

There are ways to make an impact without scoring points. Heck letting Nash get his rest would have a major impact. We can live without that rest during the playoff run if we let him rest during the regular season.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yup Diaw MUST get signed.

Agree.

Agree.

Agree.

Alot of people are going to judge the Suns with what they do with that cap space over the next few weeks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Diaw isn't signed (unless he is asking for the Max), I will drag Sarver through the mud myself

agreed - with one caveat. If Diaw isn't signed (unless he is asking for the MAX), SOMEONE on this baord will literally go crazy and try and kill him.

You just can't turn the Suns into the pre-DG Cardinals. Sarver has HUGE shoes to fill. JC is almost god-like in Phoenix.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ok so if we signed TT, we wouldn't have a backup to Nash. What do you do then?

There are ways to make an impact without scoring points. Heck letting Nash get his rest would have a major impact. We can live without that rest during the playoff run if we let him rest during the regular season.

Why wouldn't we have a backup. Even if TT signed for the contract offer we gave him, there was still money to get a back up PG.

Also, the playoffs are long man. If the Suns had deep rounds then Nash could easily get tired during the playoffs. No matter what the Suns need to sign a couple players now. They can depend on free agents falling to them or signing for less.

 

[Goldfield]

Ok so if we signed TT, we wouldn't have a backup to Nash. What do you do then?

There are ways to make an impact without scoring points. Heck letting Nash get his rest would have a major impact. We can live without that rest during the playoff run if we let him rest during the regular season.

Yup I think a healthy Bobby Jackson would make a bigger impact that a TT who is sharing min's with Amare/KT/Diaw/Marion/JJ

 

[Cheesebeef]

You keep mentioning DISCOUNT but there are no discounts in pro sports.

I only keep mentioning "discount" because THAT is what management has been touting ever since the playoffs ended. Your problem is with them, not me.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

OK, so what we have as of right now is:

Nash-Bell-Marion-Stoudemire-Thomas

Diaw-Barbosa-Jones-Burke

I highly doubt we trade Jones now, so he needs to step the f*ck up. I sure as hell hope he's working on his game right now. I also think that we only sign one player of any significance because we have 8 legit deep right now. I wish we were in the position to sign Nazr Mohammed or trade for Sam Dalembert, but that ain't going to happen without a major disruption of our top 8. Pryzbilla is out of the question. He will get the full MLE from someone and if we had that, we'd have given it to Tim Thomas. If we sign Sato, he'll be the 10th man unless he can work himself higher into the rotation.

With all that said, I think I'd like the Suns to offer their next year's #1/TE to MIL for Gadzuric and sign Bobby Jackson to the cheapest deal we can get him on for 2 years with a team option for 3. Then we have this:

Nash-Bell-Marion-Stoudemire-Thomas

Diaw-Barbosa-Jackson-Gadzuric-Jones-Sato-Burke

That's it. I'd feel a lot more confident in that team and it gives us really good depth everywhere.

Alternately, I'd look into trading Burke/TE/#1 for PJ Brown, who NOK is looking to ship out, but I don't know if they'd do that deal even though it's theoretically a good pick, even late....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yup I think a healthy Bobby Jackson would make a bigger impact that a TT who is sharing min's with Amare/KT/Diaw/Marion/JJ

JJ!? You're kidding with that one, right? The guy who was completely useless on the floor in the little minutes he actually got in the postseason?

Basically EVERYTHING now comes down to Amare - a guy who's coming off surgery that routinely ends guy's career, not to mention ANOTHER knee surgery on the other knee.

If anything, for me, TT was a backup plan or a GREAT piece of what could be a dominating puzzle. If Amare couldn't return, but KT and TT were healthy and everyone else was healthy, we'd still have a shot at the title. Now - if Amare's crap (which contrary to all the well-wising and hope could be a distinct possibility) we're looking at a long-uphill climb, with one of our division rivals getting better at the same time.

 

[Covert Rain]

JJ!? You're kidding with that one, right? The guy who was completely useless on the floor in the little minutes he actually got in the postseason?

Basically EVERYTHING now comes down to Amare - a guy who's coming off surgery that routinely ends guy's career, not to mention ANOTHER knee surgery on the other knee.

If anything, for me, TT was a backup plan or a GREAT piece of what could be a dominating puzzle. If Amare couldn't return, but KT and TT were healthy and everyone else was healthy, we'd still have a shot at the title. Now - if Amare's crap (which contrary to all the well-wising and hope could be a distinct possibility) we're looking at a long-uphill climb, with one of our division rivals getting better at the same time.

 

[Evil Ash]

Why wouldn't we have a backup. Even if TT signed for the contract offer we gave him, there was still money to get a back up PG.

No there wasn't unless you want to count the vet min and with that I'd doubt you'd get an even decent backup.

Also, the playoffs are long man. If the Suns had deep rounds then Nash could easily get tired during the playoffs. No matter what the Suns need to sign a couple players now. They can depend on free agents falling to them or signing for less.

The playoffs are long but not that as long as this past season with a healthy Amare and KT. If we had those two both LA teams wouldn't have been much of a challenge. I'm not saying we wouldn't need a backup at all during that time but he wouldn't need to play as much (like 8 minutes a game as compared to the 15 for the regular season)

Agree on signing a couple of players

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also worry a lot about losing what is one of the biggest weapons we have - a 3 point shooter who can space the floor. As of now - we have 3 guys who can stroke the 3. JR pretty much showed he CAN NOT be counted on in the playoffs, and we have no Eddie House. Last year, during the regular season, we were bombing 3s with 5 guys who could stroke it and then were successful in the playoffs with 4 guys who could stroke it. What happened though when we lost one of those three guys? Offense went into the crapper. So, now, again, we have 3 3-point shooters - gotta get another one. I say good luck finding one who actually can make them in the playoffs under duress.

 

[Goldfield]

I only keep mentioning "discount" because THAT is what management has been touting ever since the playoffs ended. Your problem is with them, not me.

But ALL teams say whay they have to in order to please the "majority" of the fans.

We both knew TT was gunna jump on the best offer. It doesnt make sence for the Suns to spend all they have on TT when they have 2 more glaring needs.

A solid backup PG will be more impactfull than TT on next years team with Amare & KT returning, Diaw's & James Jones offseason improvment, along with Marion.

That is 5 guys to fill 3 positions. Adding TT with just about the Full MLE doesnt make sence to me... Now if he was a good rebounder & Shotblocker I would change my mind. But do we really need another scorer while Nash plays WAY too many min's?

 

[Covert Rain]

No there wasn't unless you want to count the vet min and with that I'd doubt you'd get an even decent backup.



The playoffs are long but not that as long as this past season with a healthy Amare and KT. If we had those two both LA teams wouldn't have been much of a challenge. I'm not saying we wouldn't need a backup at all during that time but he wouldn't need to play as much (like 8 minutes a game as compared to the 15 for the regular season)

Agree on signing a couple of players

In there lies the problem. The Suns are not going to bring in anybody that they were not going to before. They already decided on the free agent values. I don't see any backup point guard on the free agent list, that is all of the sudden worth more money then we were going to throw at them before. So to me, if the Suns do, they overspend. That's worse.

Even if they go after someone on that list, we would be lucky if they turn out to be a decent backup.

 

[slinslin]

So cheese what about those draft day deals to free up money?

 

[Goldfield]

JJ!? You're kidding with that one, right? The guy who was completely useless on the floor in the little minutes he actually got in the postseason?

Basically EVERYTHING now comes down to Amare - a guy who's coming off surgery that routinely ends guy's career, not to mention ANOTHER knee surgery on the other knee.

If anything, for me, TT was a backup plan or a GREAT piece of what could be a dominating puzzle. If Amare couldn't return, but KT and TT were healthy and everyone else was healthy, we'd still have a shot at the title. Now - if Amare's crap (which contrary to all the well-wising and hope could be a distinct possibility) we're looking at a long-uphill climb, with one of our division rivals getting better at the same time.

I agree TT would help IF Amare cant play anymore. But you cant sign a guy on that alone.

Jones lost his shot in the playoffs, but he does ALOT or other things on the floor. JJ bring rebounding, shotblocking & defence not to mention when he gets his shot back he is a pretty complete player.n

JJ is 6'8 who plays bigger, TT is 6'10 and plays smaller.