Thomas NOT returning

[George O'Brien]

Yes you're right, some people always spin things in the positive light. But don't you see you're doing the exact same thing, except spinning every aspect of this move towards the negative.

There's definitely negatives about this move (especially if they screw up the rest of free agency), but come on arguing that fans/commentators/coaches who've argued that tim thomas will occassionally dog it are all wrong just to paint this as negative as you can, that's just masochistic.

No, he doesn't see that.

In any case, the free agency period is only 24 hours old so I think it might be premarture to draw any conclusions as to what the Suns are going to do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes you're right, some people always spin things in the positive light. But don't you see you're doing the exact same thing, except spinning every aspect of this move towards the negative.

There's definitely negatives about this move (especially if they screw up the rest of free agency), but come on arguing that fans/commentators/coaches who've argued that tim thomas will occassionally dog it are all wrong just to paint this as negative as you can, that's just masochistic.

I'm not saying they're wrong - I'm saying they're EXPECTING TOO MUCH from a guy who is what he is and nothing else. To be an underachiever, to me, it means that the guy must have greateness inside of him, which over the course of his career it's PLAINLY OBVIOUS that he doesn't. So yeah, he's inconsistent. That's why he's not making 10 million dollars, that's why he's not making the MAX, but to call him marginal? That's just freaking ridiculous. This is a guy who at 5 million dollars, can actually WIN you ball games and won't LOSE them for you. That's a pretty good return on your investment if you ask me.

 

[SunsTzu]

that's funny - both my father and best friend - both of which are orhtopedic surgeons have said there is a very high risk of reinjuring stress fractures, especially as atheletes get older. But hey, what do they know? They're just bone specialists.

Well I'm sure they do know quite a bit more than me about it. I'm just going off what I read about his injury and some players I remember having stress fractures. I know Jaric had one in '05 then came back too soon and re-injured it, but I don't think he had any problems this season.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

We are doomed because we have to count on a person who has had a microfracture surgery, we need to go sign a white guy to a three year deal who has had 2 microfractrure surgeries?

 

[Evil Ash]

We are doomed because we have to count on a person who has had a microfracture surgery, we need to go sign a white guy to a three year deal who has had 2 microfractrure surgeries?

1) Why is he being white being brought into this at all?

2) Who says we're relying on him? On this team he'd be a 2nd or 3rd string swingman. You don't rely on people that deep on the bench, you just hope that they're helpful. If not you just go to another player on the bench ... big whoop

 

[Evil Ash]

Republic article up with some new info

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0702suns0702.html

Clippers lure away T. Thomas
Free agent gets $24 million deal

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 2, 2006 12:00 AM

The NBA free-agency gods have struck back hard on the Suns since they snuck Steve Nash out of Dallas on the first day of 2004's negotiations.

A year after a priority on signing Joe Johnson saw talks quickly sour, the Suns had their hopes of retaining Tim Thomas dashed Saturday quicker than you can say "cha-ching."

As the first wave of free-agency talks went from late Friday to early Saturday, Thomas pounced on an offer with the Los Angeles Clippers.

Thomas will sign a four-year, $24.2 million contract with Phoenix's Pacific Division foe. The Clippers used their entire midlevel exception, which starts deals at $5.4 million.

Phoenix was offering a three-year contract worth about $12 million. The Suns had traded two first-round picks Wednesday in part to be able to re-sign Thomas, a Suns playoff star who averaged 11.0 points and 4.9 rebounds in the regular season and 15.1 points and 5.5 rebounds in the postseason.

"If we got too far out there, we were going to jeopardize our nucleus of guys for the future," said Suns coach and General Manager Mike D'Antoni, whose team's payroll will spike sharply for the 2007-08 season if Phoenix signs Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa to contract extensions.

Thomas was the Clippers' second choice. Vladimir Radmanovic agreed to terms with the Los Angeles Lakers for $31 million over five years, the same terms the Clippers bid for him to stay. When Radmanovic chose more playing time down the hall, the Clippers turned their focus to Thomas.

The Suns' offer would have put them $1 million over the luxury tax threshold.

"We had to be cognizant of keeping a championship team together for the future and the overall depth that it takes," said David Griffin, Suns vice president of basketball operations. "We chose depth to one player that ties us up in a negative way long term. . . . For sustaining a championship model, this was the best decision for us and him apparently."

Phoenix's other work went much better. The Suns had promising talks with two 35-year-olds: Lindsey Hunter, a combo guard for Detroit the past three seasons, and Eric Piatkowski, a solid career shooter who played for Chicago the past two years.

Phoenix also has interest in swingmen Matt Harpring and Jumaine Jones. Both just had strong seasons that might keep their prices out of reach.

Nikoloz Tskitishvili was waived and picked up by Portland on Friday. Eddie House opted for free agency Friday, but both he and the Suns say he may return. Without them and Thomas, Phoenix has nine players under contract. That will give the members of Phoenix's Vegas Summer League team, especially Romain Sato, better shots at roster spots. The Suns hold a free-agent camp this week before the summer team, including Amaré Stoudemire, leaves for a Friday opener in Las Vegas.

Stoudemire's return is a major reason why Phoenix was unwilling to pay more for Thomas. The Suns feel they are strong in the frontcourt with Stoudemire, Diaw, Kurt Thomas and part-time power forward Shawn Marion.

Tim Thomas, who has a Los Angeles home, did not return a call for comment Saturday.

"I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm not going to make as much money as I can," Thomas said when he last left US Airways Center four weeks ago. "But at the same time, just knowing what's at stake here and what's here to reach that goal, it would be almost (ridiculous) to try to go somewhere else and get paid and have a setback as far as winning."

 

[playstation]

so how much would you say Tim Thomas made for himself by playing hard for 3 months?

without the suns, if he gets ANYTHING more than 2 years/vet min i'd be SHOCKED. we're talking about 3 months of working pretty hard netting you $22 million. if i was him, i'd at least call and thank steve nash a little.

this is like what MJ did for Luc Longley!

 

[Chaplin]

Tim Thomas was great for us in the playoffs, and we probably would have had a much more difficult time against the Lakers, but so what? We also didn't have Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire. Tim Thomas averaged something like 31 minutes with us, do you honestly believe he'd get that many minutes with both KT and Amare coming back? We're talking around 20 minutes a game, maybe 25. With the Clippers he gets to start, maybe even playing MORE minutes per game with them.

And if Tim Thomas is the guy that puts us over the top for a championship, does that mean that now the Clippers are the favorites for the championship since he signed on with them? I guess he is a good luck charm, seeing as how his Bucks, Bulls and Knicks teams all won championships. Oh, wait.

And this Raja Bell argument is ridiculous as well. It was pretty solid that Raja would start. He may have been a role player, but he is far and away a better defender than Tim Thomas will EVER be. Especially in a league where the best players are guards or small forwards. Do you think Manu or Kobe would be concerned at all about Tim Thomas? Of course not, because they would never have to face them. Raja Bell, however... This season has proven that Bell was well worth the money.

 

[Folster]

so how much would you say Tim Thomas made for himself by playing hard for 3 months?

without the suns, if he gets ANYTHING more than 2 years/vet min i'd be SHOCKED. we're talking about 3 months of working pretty hard netting you $22 million. if i was him, i'd at least call and thank steve nash a little.

this is like what MJ did for Luc Longley!

Exactly. Ungrateful bastard. The fact that we crapped away two picks to sign him adds insult to injury.

I'll be fun rooting for him to suck.

 

[PhxGametime]

"Phoenix's other work went much better. The Suns had promising talks with two 35-year-olds: Lindsey Hunter, a combo guard for Detroit the past three seasons, and Eric Piatkowski, a solid career shooter who played for Chicago the past two years.

Phoenix also has interest in swingmen Matt Harpring and Jumaine Jones."


I've always liked Jumaine Jones but not sure how much I'd give em... I did like Hunter back in day but he's 35? Piatkowski or Harpring, I'll just say I'd rather have athletic defenders that have range... because this Offseason is really starting to piss ME off and I've had enough negative talk, Jones of the three intrigues me though.

 

[PhxGametime]

Reece Gaines is a Free Agent lol not sure how'd he fit but he'd be had for cheap and he's around 6'5-6'6 with a little handle, range, and can play 3 positions on the Suns?

 

[Sir Charles Barfbag]

TT is a total A-hole........took him all of 5 minutes to take the money and run to the Clips after what the Suns did for him.....and the thing is, I doubt the Suns offered much less than the Clips. That dumb A-hole is a lying piece of crap......yeah, he'd be ******** to sign elsewhere and money isn't everything.....I'm so sick of hearing that shiz.

Now watch him turn into the piece of crap he was before coming to the Suns. Great move TT......it'll be fun rooting against your sorry a$$. Go try resurrecting the Clips.....if they have even 1 injury (like Brand) they're back to a 20 win club.......MORON!

 

[Joe Mama]

Exactly. Ungrateful bastard. The fact that we crapped away two picks to sign him adds insult to injury.

I'll be fun rooting for him to suck.

I'm sorry, but if I read this stuff about the draft one more time I'm going to pull my hair out (actually I'll have someone do it for me).

This has been the philosophy of the Phoenix Suns for the last several years. They do not want to use up roster spots and money on first-round draft picks when they do not feel any player available will really be able to contribute much to the team. Of course it's not just the roster spot and salary that have to be considered. There's also the value of the pick.

Aside from just being disappointed after the draft build up I can't understand why people are so upset, especially about the #21 draft pick. I've said repeatedly that I would have taken Marcus Williams, but it's clear that the Phoenix Suns did not want him. Neither did half the other teams in the NBA. I think it will be a mistake. I can understand why they passed on him though.

I believe Shannon Brown was probably the next player on their draft board. I would rather have the salary cap and money from Brian Grant and Cleveland's 2007 first-round draft pick than Shannon Brown.

A lot of people are upset that the Phoenix Suns sold the #27 draft pick. They got $3 million for it. I would have done the same thing, especially when they know they're going to go over the luxury tax limit. Coach Mike did not want Sergio Rodríguez.

Look, even in a good draft a very small number of late draft picks actually significantly contribute in the NBA.

TT is a total A-hole........took him all of 5 minutes to take the money and run to the Clips after what the Suns did for him.....and the thing is, I doubt the Suns offered much less than the Clips. That dumb A-hole is a lying piece of crap......yeah, he'd be ******** to sign elsewhere and money isn't everything.....I'm so sick of hearing that shiz.

Now watch him turn into the piece of crap he was before coming to the Suns. Great move TT......it'll be fun rooting against your sorry a$$. Go try resurrecting the Clips.....if they have even 1 injury (like Brand) they're back to a 20 win club.......MORON!

I believe Tim Thomas originally said that money wasn't the biggest factor because he had made a lot of money over his career early in the playoffs. As time went on he continued to make it pretty clear that even though he wanted to return to the Phoenix Suns he wasn't going to take significantly less money to do it. He started that same statement where he talked about it being ******** to leave by saying, "I'm not saying that I'm not going to make as much money as I can..."

The Clippers offered Tim Thomas significantly more money than the Phoenix Suns. The quotes from David Griffin and Mike D'Antoni regarding Tim Thomas' departure lead me to believe that they could have retained him if they had been willing to give him as much as the clips. They weren't.

There was a big difference in the offers, and I can't blame Tim Thomas for going with the Clippers. Still, I think the Phoenix Suns made the right move.

Joe

 

[Nash 2x MVP]

See yaaa TT... You just lost your chance in getting a RING...
IMO the contract the SUNS offered to him is the best they can do
without sacrificing our future. I dont care much for guys who says
one thing and do the other...

 

[Absolute Zero]

No, he doesn't see that.

In any case, the free agency period is only 24 hours old so I think it might be premarture to draw any conclusions as to what the Suns are going to do.

Well we do know at this point that they aren't going to spend much money. We'll be lucky if they follow through on getting us another 35 year old or 2. Our depth is very bad at this point. With a couple of 30+ year olds in our starting line up already this is bad. Does anybody really think we can make it to the playoffs injury free??

 

[SirStefan32]

I can't blame Thomas for this. If somebody offered me twice as much money, I would leave too.

 

[DeAnna]

We traded the picks because they didn't like anybody there. How many times do I have to repeat this?

That may be only partially true. The 'spin' had already begun. You don't think the Suns had an idea TT2 would sign somewhere else? I'm sure his agent was in their ear way before July 1 - 'hey, Clippers are offering more money'

 

[DeAnna]

I can't blame Thomas for this. If somebody offered me twice as much money, I would leave too.

Heck, so would I - so why go thru all the BS saying (in print and radio) that he was determined to come back and that money was not the main factor?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Tim Thomas was great for us in the playoffs, and we probably would have had a much more difficult time against the Lakers, but so what? We also didn't have Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire. Tim Thomas averaged something like 31 minutes with us, do you honestly believe he'd get that many minutes with both KT and Amare coming back? We're talking around 20 minutes a game, maybe 25. With the Clippers he gets to start, maybe even playing MORE minutes per game with them.

And if Tim Thomas is the guy that puts us over the top for a championship, does that mean that now the Clippers are the favorites for the championship since he signed on with them? I guess he is a good luck charm, seeing as how his Bucks, Bulls and Knicks teams all won championships. Oh, wait.

And this Raja Bell argument is ridiculous as well. It was pretty solid that Raja would start. He may have been a role player, but he is far and away a better defender than Tim Thomas will EVER be. Especially in a league where the best players are guards or small forwards. Do you think Manu or Kobe would be concerned at all about Tim Thomas? Of course not, because they would never have to face them. Raja Bell, however... This season has proven that Bell was well worth the money.

Chap - do you have any ideas what you're talking about in most of the above? TT will get to START for the Clippers? What the hell gives you that idea? He's going to start over Ross or Magette at SF or Brand at PF? No - he'll be a bench player, just like he was going to be for us and pretty damn good one at that.

Next - you say it was "pretty solid" that Raja would start? Again - where the hell are yougetting THAT from, considering that we just traded for KT and our "numer one priority" was re-signing JJ. So where was Bell was going to start with the between Nash/JJ/Marion/Amare/KT?

And why bring Manu and Kobe into this conversation? What do they have antyhign to do with TT?

As far as the Bucks, Bulls, Knicks - pretty silly argument there as well. No one's saying the guys a superstar, but to pretend that he's not GREAT depth, especially when both of our front-court players are coming off injuries and one of them is gonna be 35, is spin and nothing more.

But hey - now we can look forward to signing... Eric Piatkowski? Yeah.

 

[SirStefan32]

Heck, so would I - so why go thru all the BS saying (in print and radio) that he was determined to come back and that money was not the main factor?

Well, if my company offered me a promotion and $70,000, and another company offered me the same position for $75,000, I would likely remain with my current company.

If another company offered me $100,000, I am likely to take that offer.

I mean, I just can't blame TT for leaving. If Clips offered him one or two million more, I'd have a problem with him leaving, but they pretty much doubled the Suns offer.

Suns made a reasonable offer, and Clippers offered more money that TT is worth. I can't blame Tim for this and I can't blame the Suns. I wouldn't give TT anything more than $4M per season.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap - do you have any ideas what you're talking about in most of the above? TT will get to START for the Clippers? What the hell gives you that idea? He's going to start over Ross or Magette at SF or Brand at PF? No - he'll be a bench player, just like he was going to be for us and pretty damn good one at that.

Next - you say it was "pretty solid" that Raja would start? Again - where the hell are yougetting THAT from, considering that we just traded for KT and our "numer one priority" was re-signing JJ. So where was Bell was going to start with the between Nash/JJ/Marion/Amare/KT?

And why bring Manu and Kobe into this conversation? What do they have antyhign to do with TT?

As far as the Bucks, Bulls, Knicks - pretty silly argument there as well. No one's saying the guys a superstar, but to pretend that he's not GREAT depth, especially when both of our front-court players are coming off injuries and one of them is gonna be 35, is spin and nothing more.

But hey - now we can look forward to signing... Eric Piatkowski? Yeah.

The point is, you are overrating him. The sky is always falling in your world, I suppose that's holdover from many disappointing years as a Cardinal fan. You just need to relax and stop crying so much. If you think the Suns lost any chance they had at a championship because Tim Thomas went to the Clippers, well, I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Ryanwb]

Thomas fit with Phoenix's system, the Clippers are in for a suprise if they expect Thomas to mold into their system.

It was pretty telling that during the playoffs the announcers were actually suprised that Thomas was playing defense

 

[seesred]

Tim Thomas will be missed. Period. He brought the big guys out to gaurd against his three point ability. It seams every year for many years we don't get the numbers right and we lose a key piece of depth.

GBR
40

 

[Cheesebeef]

The point is, you are overrating him. The sky is always falling in your world, I suppose that's holdover from many disappointing years as a Cardinal fan. You just need to relax and stop crying so much. If you think the Suns lost any chance they had at a championship because Tim Thomas went to the Clippers, well, I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty ridiculous.

the point is Chap that we lost a good piece ot the puzzle and that's what I'm saying. But, as usual, you need to blow that and every other argument you make (Bell was a solid starter/ TT will be a starter/and whatever the rest of the drivel you usually throw out) out of proprotion because you are a Suns Kool-aid drinker.

Is there ANY WHERE that I said the title just went out the window? Have I not said REPEATEDLY that if Amare is 100% we still have a good shot? No - but, hey, things are black and white in that Kool-aid head of yours and the Suns can do now wrong.

Theonly ridiculous thing is you constantly a) telling people not to be jerks here when you are one of th biggest ones here (along with me) and b) supporting every move we make and in turn blowing other people's reaction out of propotion because you don't really have a good argument against it except THE SUNS ARE GREAT!

 

[Goldfield]

telling people not to be jerks here when you are one of th biggest ones here (along with me)

lmao that was funny.