Trade talks & rumors

[AzStevenCal]

So I was thinking, with all the talk about how CLE needs some help on the interior and how Love hasn't been a good fit there...why not this?

Suns trade: Green, Marcus, Plumlee, Zoran, Randolph, Suns lottery protected 2015 first rd pick, LAL 2015 first rd pick
Suns get: Kevin Love

I think we make playoffs with this trade and I think that would be enough to convince Love to resign here. If he doesn't oh well, still worth the chance to bring in an All Star to PHX.

Unfortunately I think we cannot break up the Morrii. Not that I think they're untouchable, but I'm pretty sure trading Marcus would ruin Markieff. One would hope they're adult and professional enough to deal with being separated but pretty much every quote from them indicates that they are not.

I'd be willing to bet that we agreed to try and keep them together - nothing binding, just promised to make the effort. I think as long as they are trying to give us their best, we'll honor that commitment. And if I'm wrong and we made no such commitment, I think we'd be foolish to trade Marcus. If anything, trade Markieff. I think separating them at this point will greatly impact their performance and it makes no sense to damage the good brother and still keep him. It will damage Marcus too but really, who cares? He's playing fairly well for his role but he's very replaceable.

But on to the deal. No way do I trade for Love. Why throw away assets for a rental that has already made it clear he doesn't want to play here? He can make the playoffs on a lot of rosters. I think it's important to try and make the playoffs but we're not going to win it all this year. Trying and failing has value. Giving away assets for that chance at the playoffs doesn't do much for me. If his agent says he'd jump at the chance to stay in Phoenix, then yes, trade the farm. But otherwise, I'd pass.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

And if I'm wrong and we made no such commitment, I think we'd be foolish to trade Marcus. If anything, trade Markieff.

Steve

Ridiculous. Marcus is the selfish one on a team. What he brings to the table is something we already have. Kieff brings a solid post game that the Suns lack. All stats including the coveted "PER" favor Kieff also.

But on to the deal. No way do I trade for Love. Why throw away assets for a rental that has already made it clear he doesn't want to play here? He can make the playoffs on a lot of rosters. I think it's important to try and make the playoffs but we're not going to win it all this year. Trying and failing has value. Giving away assets for that chance at the playoffs doesn't do much for me. If his agent says he'd jump at the chance to stay in Phoenix, then yes, trade the farm. But otherwise, I'd pass.

Steve

I wouldn't count it as trading the farm since Warren, Ennis and Len aren't being traded. The picks are really the only loss but I'd ask Love's agent if he would be willing to resign here if we made playoffs and if the answer was yes, do it. Is it a risk in case we miss playoffs? Yes but its worth the risk to bring an All Star to PHX who we can possibly build around. Would be first All Star since Amare in 2010 I believe.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ridiculous. Marcus is the selfish one on a team. What he brings to the table is something we already have. Kieff brings a solid post game that the Suns lack. All stats including the coveted "PER" favor Kieff also.

You missed the point completely. Yes, Keef is the superior player. Easily. But I believe separating them now, after letting them experience the NBA together, will damage both players. I'd rather get full value from Keef in a trade than hang onto him and watch him struggle without Marcus. And I think you're in search mode for a new whipping boy when it comes to Marcus. I'm pretty sure he's doing what the coach wants him to do.

I wouldn't count it as trading the farm since Warren, Ennis and Len aren't being traded. The picks are really the only loss but I'd ask Love's agent if he would be willing to resign here if we made playoffs and if the answer was yes, do it. Is it a risk in case we miss playoffs? Yes but its worth the risk to bring an All Star to PHX who we can possibly build around. Would be first All Star since Amare in 2010 I believe.

If he's willing to stay in Phoenix, it's a trade worth making. Without that commitment though I just wouldn't make the effort. But you're right, it isn't "trading the farm" like I said. In fact it's quite the opposite. It's trading our junk. You don't like Plumlee, Green or Marcus so essentially the only real value you're giving up is the Lakers pick. I'm pretty sure the Cavs would see through that offer.

I'd give them the twins, Green, Tucker and the Lakers pick along with ours if Kevin had interest in signing here. That's a much better package for them and while it still wouldn't be anywhere near enough, it might keep the laughing in the background down to a minimum.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I don't understand why the Suns didn't claim Tarik Black unless they have something else going.

The Lakers claimed him and won out because of their inferior W-L record.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Lakers claimed him and won out because of their inferior W-L record.

Too bad he didn't clear waivers. The Suns might have gone after him.

 

[sunsfan88]

Too bad he didn't clear waivers. The Suns might have gone after him.

We could have had him for a trade if we were willing to muster up a 2nd rd pick for him. Houston was said to have been desperately contacting teams to ship Black off to after signing Smith.

 

[Chaplin]

We could have had him for a trade if we were willing to muster up a 2nd rd pick for him. Houston was said to have been desperately contacting teams to ship Black off to after signing Smith.

Arrogant presumption to presume we DIDN'T make an offer. You don't know if we did or not.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm very disappointed that we didn't make the minimal effort needed to get Black. The only excuse for it I'd buy, is that McD has his sights set on a better, more experienced player, who we can reasonably expect to get. Even in that case, I'd have snagged Black and waived Randolph.

McD is doing a rotten job of finding a useful backup PF - passing on Ed Davis, bringing in a guy that couldn't even play the position in Tolliver and now ignoring Black. The only good move he's made is finding someone to take Anthony off our hands.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm very disappointed that we didn't make the minimal effort needed to get Black. The only excuse for it I'd buy, is that McD has his sights set on a better, more experienced player, who we can reasonably expect to get. Even in that case, I'd have snagged Black and waived Randolph.

McD is doing a rotten job of finding a useful backup PF - passing on Ed Davis, bringing in a guy that couldn't even play the position in Tolliver and now ignoring Black. The only good move he's made is finding someone to take Anthony off our hands.

How do you know we didn't? Everyone seems to think we didn't even make the call, but I'd like to know your source for that information.

 

[sunsfan88]

Arrogant presumption to presume we DIDN'T make an offer. You don't know if we did or not.

Why the hell would the Rockets turn down the Suns offer of a 2nd rd pick for Black when they ended up having to release him outright without getting any compensation?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why the hell would the Rockets turn down the Suns offer of a 2nd rd pick for Black when they ended up having to release him outright without getting any compensation?

It cost them very little to let him go. If they don't have room for a decent young prospect, why in the world would they want a 2nd round pick from us? And why in the world would they want him to go to a possible contender when they can let the dregs of the league claim him off waivers? There's a lot we don't know.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

It cost them very little to let him go. If they don't have room for a decent young prospect, why in the world would they want a 2nd round pick from us? And why in the world would they want him to go to a possible contender when they can let the dregs of the league claim him off waivers? There's a lot we don't know.

Steve

Exactly. There are a multitude of reasons why Tariq Black isn't a Phoenix Sun. And "the Suns are idiots" is only one of them.

 

[sunsfan88]

It cost them very little to let him go. If they don't have room for a decent young prospect, why in the world would they want a 2nd round pick from us? And why in the world would they want him to go to a possible contender when they can let the dregs of the league claim him off waivers? There's a lot we don't know.

Steve

Uh, contender? The Phoenix Suns? Seriously, Steve?

The Rockets may have 99 problems, but I don't think the Suns will ever be one of them. I don't think worrying about the Suns becoming "contenders" is even remotely a thought in Morey's mind.

Sure maybe the Rockets don't want to trade with the Warriors, Clippers, Grizzlies etc but the Suns? I really doubt it.

 

[Chaplin]

Uh, contender? The Phoenix Suns? Seriously, Steve?

The Rockets may have 99 problems, but I don't think the Suns will ever be one of them. I don't think worrying about the Suns becoming "contenders" is even remotely a thought in Morey's mind.

Sure maybe the Rockets don't want to trade with the Warriors, Clippers, Grizzlies etc but the Suns? I really doubt it.

Again, presumption.

 

[SirStefan32]

Heh! Phoenix Suns a possible contender. Contender for what?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Heh! Phoenix Suns a possible contender. Contender for what?

For a playoff spot. That's been the talk of the board lately (and this thread) so I thought it was pretty obvious what I was talking about. We certainly aren't in contention to win it all.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

It cost them very little to let him go. If they don't have room for a decent young prospect, why in the world would they want a 2nd round pick from us? And why in the world would they want him to go to a possible contender when they can let the dregs of the league claim him off waivers? There's a lot we don't know.

Steve

A pick is an asset that doesn't occupy a roster spot, which Houston was short of. I'd have given them Minnies pick which will morph into 2 second round picks - almost certainly quite good second round picks. They didn't waive him immediately, so they were looking for a little something in return for a day or two.

 

[Chaplin]

A pick is an asset that doesn't occupy a roster spot, which Houston was short of. I'd have given them Minnies pick which will morph into 2 second round picks - almost certainly quite good second round picks. They didn't waive him immediately, so they were looking for a little something in return for a day or two.

And because we didn't get him, that automatically means we didn't even talk to them?

 

[AzStevenCal]

A pick is an asset that doesn't occupy a roster spot, which Houston was short of. I'd have given them Minnies pick which will morph into 2 second round picks - almost certainly quite good second round picks. They didn't waive him immediately, so they were looking for a little something in return for a day or two.

So you'd give up two 2nd rounders for Black? I think there's a fair chance that we'll be able to grab him ourselves when the Lakers eventually tire of his inconsistent effort and frequent mental lapses on defense. Yes, it's possible that unlike Memphis, Kansas and Houston, the Lakers will succeed in turning him around. But we'll see. There's no denying his talent, it's all upstairs with him.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

So you'd give up two 2nd rounders for Black? I think there's a fair chance that we'll be able to grab him ourselves when the Lakers eventually tire of his inconsistent effort and frequent mental lapses on defense. Yes, it's possible that unlike Memphis, Kansas and Houston, the Lakers will succeed in turning him around. But we'll see. There's no denying his talent, it's all upstairs with him.

Steve

If you're going to argue that he isn't worth getting I can't offer much in reply - his stats look good me, rebounding 11.7/36 min, FG% > .500, better than average TO rate. Didn't seem likely to be a headcase on that basis but it was only 25 games (391 minutes).

 

[AzStevenCal]

If you're going to argue that he isn't worth getting I can't offer much in reply - his stats look good me, rebounding 11.7/36 min, FG% > .500, better than average TO rate. Didn't seem likely to be a headcase on that basis but it was only 25 games (391 minutes).

I would have grabbed him for free but it's a different story if you start giving up assets for a player like Black. He has a lot of talent and although undersized, he can be a real beast. But he has a very spotty history too. Conflict with teammates and coaches, he stormed out of a practice in college, he disappears for stretches and I've never heard anyone talk about him that didn't include the word inconsistent. Coaches fall in and out of love with the guy. He'll be on his best behavior and appear dominant at times but much like Andray Blatche, he'll likely wear out his welcome before too long.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I would have grabbed him for free but it's a different story if you start giving up assets for a player like Black. He has a lot of talent and although undersized, he can be a real beast. But he has a very spotty history too. Conflict with teammates and coaches, he stormed out of a practice in college, he disappears for stretches and I've never heard anyone talk about him that didn't include the word inconsistent. Coaches fall in and out of love with the guy. He'll be on his best behavior and appear dominant at times but much like Andray Blatche, he'll likely wear out his welcome before too long.

Steve

He was waived pretty quickly--he doesn't scream out "solid NBA prospect" to me. Yet many here think he might be the second coming of Kenneth Faried.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't understand how Black isn't better than Randolph.

Trade some 2nd rd pick for Black, tyen waive Randolph and we still have a roster spot available.

 

[PhxGametime]

I doubt Rockets ever considered Trading Black to any of the top 8 or 9 Teams in West. Maybe if they could've received First Rounder but I doubt the Suns would Trade Miles
Plumlee to same tier (or Pelicans/Thunder) to clear Roster spot for a weak #50-60 2nd Rounder. Though for an asset, coming back Suns way (who knows what they'd do) the Suns probably wouldn't be as choosey.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't understand how Black isn't better than Randolph.

Trade some 2nd rd pick for Black, tyen waive Randolph and we still have a roster spot available.

Is he better than Randolph? I really don't know, I guess it depends on which Black you get. He certainly has a lot more potential and he has a nice mean streak when he goes for the rebound that I really like. But occasional lack of effort and focus along with a questionable attitude can cause more problems than the player is worth. But yes, if it were up to me, I'd probably rather take a chance on Black than keep Randolph and I'd rather have Black than a second round pick. But I don't think he beats out Marcus as our back up 4 so you're talking end of the bench kind of player.

Steve