Trail Blazers @ Suns Monday game thread 12-16-19

[Mainstreet]

I'll bet that the league says that he was moving when they release the 2 minute report. They're not very good at admitting they made a call that directly effected the outcome and that gave the Blazers the lead, and win.

If this were the NFL then I'd be more upset over a bad call that decided the game. In basketball there are too many plays overall so pinpointing a single play that won or lost the game is a little more difficult. Yes, some plays do win games and others lose them but officiating shouldn't be an excuse because there are plenty of other opportunities to put yourself in a position that officiating can't swing it one way or the other. The Suns led by 15+ in the first half but failed to play with any sense of urgency in the 2nd half. That hurt them more than a bad call at the end.

This is why I was so critical of the referees not counting the basket made by Harden. It's should be getting the calls right whether it is embarrassing or not. If a bad call is made, they should correct it immediately. It's not enough to say the players have the time to correct the call like in Harden's case.

 

[WildBB]

Suns made some mistakes, but without Booker and Ayton, they did a pretty good job. Officiating was terrible. I counted at least 10 points to the Blazers. No travel calls and Anthony and Lillard, both of which resulted in baskets, the wrong call on Baynes, incorrect offensive interference on Baynes, and a no call on defensive interference on one of Frank's shots.

Refereeing in general in the NBA is inconsistent at best. They were over calling fouls in the beginning and under calling them in the end mostly. And like you said missing some obvious traveling calls. They must now just be dazzled by the three step Euro moves and awsome shuffling drives.

 

[Chaplin]

Okay with Ayton’s suspension complete I think this brings the games lost that likely would’ve been wins but for Ayton’s suspension to 7 or 8. That’s a lot of L’s to hang on Ayton. But that’s how many close games went the other way bc of a lack of Ayton’s impact. He’d best come back frothing at the mouth to make up for his poor decision. He can’t win all those games back, but he can do his damnedest to win as many as possible with the remaining 56 games.

Sorry, but Booker being out was the REAL factor as to why we lost this game -- and the game against San Antonio. Ayton would have helped, but no Booker was our problem these past 2 games.

 

[Hoop Head]

It'll be interesting to see the 2 minute report. It honestly seems like the league has it out for Baynes since he's involved in so many bad calls or no calls. The offensive basket interference and then the blocking foul at the end that gave Lillard the And-1. I looked up the Spurs/Suns report and it says there was an incorrect no call because Baynes apparently fouled Patty Mills with 1:40 to go.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/12/Spurs-121-Suns-119-OT.pdf

It's like they're out to get him for hurting Steph Curry.

I can't wait to see the Suns/Blazers report now to know what Baynes did wrong.

 

[Chaplin]

Every year we go into it hoping that the officiating would improve, and every year we are horribly disappointed. In fact, this year, even with Reviews and Challenges, the officiating somehow is WORSE. And not just for the Suns, just ask James Harden.

 

[Mainstreet]

It'll be interesting to see the 2 minute report. It honestly seems like the league has it out for Baynes since he's involved in so many bad calls or no calls. The offensive basket interference and then the blocking foul at the end that gave Lillard the And-1. I looked up the Spurs/Suns report and it says there was an incorrect no call because Baynes apparently fouled Patty Mills with 1:40 to go.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/12/Spurs-121-Suns-119-OT.pdf

It's like they're out to get him for hurting Steph Curry.

I can't wait to see the Suns/Blazers report now to know what Baynes did wrong.

Both horrible calls. That basket interference call was like... look at the video.

 

[Sunburn]

Sorry, but Booker being out was the REAL factor as to why we lost this game -- and the game against San Antonio. Ayton would have helped, but no Booker was our problem these past 2 games.

He's saying the difference in these close losses would've been Ayton. I have to agree with him. I think having Ayton on the court last night wouldve been good for a 2 point swing.

 

[Chaplin]

He's saying the difference in these close losses would've been Ayton. I have to agree with him. I think having Ayton on the court last night wouldve been good for a 2 point swing.

Really? And what would having Booker have done? It would be more than 2 points, that's for sure.

I really like Ayton, that's no secret, but Booker being out is MUCH more catastrophic than Ayton being out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry, but Booker being out was the REAL factor as to why we lost this game -- and the game against San Antonio. Ayton would have helped, but no Booker was our problem these past 2 games.

So you’re saying if Ayton played last night we still would’ve lost by 1?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Really? And what would having Booker have done? It would be more than 2 points, that's for sure.

I really like Ayton, that's no secret, but Booker being out is MUCH more catastrophic than Ayton being out.

Chap I’m not even going to debate this with you because you clearly do not even understand what I’m saying at a basic level. itlnsunsfan gets it.

 

[Proximo]

Really? And what would having Booker have done? It would be more than 2 points, that's for sure.

I really like Ayton, that's no secret, but Booker being out is MUCH more catastrophic than Ayton being out.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Ayton's rebounding and shot blocking is something no other player on the roster can provide.

It's not really like offense has been the reason we lost the last two games.

 

[Sunburn]

Really? And what would having Booker have done? It would be more than 2 points, that's for sure.

I really like Ayton, that's no secret, but Booker being out is MUCH more catastrophic than Ayton being out.

Booker was absent due to injury. Nothing to be done about that. Ayton's ******** was out due to suspension. That could have been avoided. Ayton's presence on the court would've been good for at least a 2 point swing last night. A 2 point swing would have given us the win. Therefore, the loss is on him. As are the other close losses the Suns have suffered in Ayton's completely avoidable absence. That's the point Ouchie is making.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I like Ayton, but no way is he a +20 win player over the course of a season. That's MVP territory. Some people on this board are dramatically overrating his impact.

This team has lost a bunch of games by small margins that we likely win if the team is even marginally better. That is why having him would have made such a big difference because the team as a whole would be better and that would have likely been enough to win quite a few of these games that we’ve lost.

 

[95pro]

Booker was absent due to injury. Nothing to be done about that. Ayton's ******** was out due to suspension. That could have been avoided. Ayton's presence on the court would've been good for at least a 2 point swing last night. A 2 point swing would have given us the win. Therefore, the loss is on him. As are the other close losses the Suns have suffered in Ayton's completely avoidable absence. That's the point Ouchie is making.

This team has lost a bunch of games by small margins that we likely win if the team is even marginally better. That is why having him would have made such a big difference because the team as a whole would be better and that would have likely been enough to win quite a few of these games that we’ve lost.

just like basketball, reading is fundamental.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap I’m not even going to debate this with you because you clearly do not even understand what I’m saying at a basic level. itlnsunsfan gets it.

You said we lost because Ayton was out. We're both right in a way. I just happen to think Booker is more important to this team than Ayton.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think had we had EITHER Booker or Ayton we win that game. Ayton alone would have been good for some altered shots and an easy bucket or two which would have made the difference.

 

[1Sun]

I think had we had EITHER Booker or Ayton we win that game. Ayton alone would have been good for some altered shots and an easy bucket or two which would have made the difference.

I'm still not so sure. This team is vastly improved from last year in terms of competitiveness in games, but it has really struggled finishing games and keeping composure down the stretch, even with a healthy Booker in the line-up. Now we don't know yet whether or not Ayton will help in that regard, as Ayton has only played in one game, and that was a blow-out win.

 

[Chaplin]

Writing's on the wall here at ASFN. See ya.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm still not so sure. This team is vastly improved from last year in terms of competitiveness in games, but it has really struggled finishing games and keeping composure down the stretch, even with a healthy Booker in the line-up. Now we don't know yet whether or not Ayton will help in that regard, as Ayton has only played in one game, and that was a blow-out win.

I have no doubt Booker is the higher impactful player. That is a given. Especially, Booker getting a call or two at the end with his FT%. Ayton is young and as you said only played in one game. However, it's not like it's a leap Ayton could have been the difference between a bucket or two.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You said we lost because Ayton was out. We're both right in a way. I just happen to think Booker is more important to this team than Ayton.

Yes we are both right. I think if either of them played we win. But that’s not the point I’ve been making tracking games lost due to Ayton’s absence. As others have said previously I’m tracking the games where I believe Ayton’s suspension resulted in a loss. In other words, but for Ayton being suspended we likely win the game. And note, it’s not all games that we’ve lost that I’ve put in that category. Some he definitely wouldn’t have impacted into a win and some he may have, but it wouldn’t have been likely. The 7 or 8 I believe to be games that were highly likely we would’ve won. Of course with the caveat that adding any different variable to any game obviously could have a butterfly effect on the entirety of the game.

so while your comment that bookers absence was a ****** reason for the loss is certainly plausible, it misses the point of my comment in the first place.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes we are both right. I think if either of them played we win. But that’s not the point I’ve been making tracking games lost due to Ayton’s absence. As others have said previously I’m tracking the games where I believe Ayton’s suspension resulted in a loss. In other words, but for Ayton being suspended we likely win the game. And note, it’s not all games that we’ve lost that I’ve put in that category. Some he definitely wouldn’t have impacted into a win and some he may have, but it wouldn’t have been likely. The 7 or 8 I believe to be games that were highly likely we would’ve won. Of course with the caveat that adding any different variable to any game obviously could have a butterfly effect on the entirety of the game.

so while your comment that bookers absence was a ****** reason for the loss is certainly plausible, it misses the point of my comment in the first place.

Man...7 or 8 games in a tight race for the last two spots may hurt a bunch when all is said and done.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Writing's on the wall here at ASFN. See ya.