Training Camp: KEY battles for roster spots

[spanky1]

Here are my thoughts:

ON OFFENSE:

a) TE....Blizzard and Bergen make it....Edwards battles Golliday for #3
b) ROG..Brown versus Bridges
c) WR...McCoy versus Lee for the #4; Holiday versus Hamilton for the #5
d) RB....Anderson versus Scobey for the #3

ON DEFENSE:

a) OLB..Joe versus Keyes for the #7
b) CB....Francisco versus Walls for the #5
c) SS....Shazor versus Mayes
d) FS....Harris versus Ohalete

Once again.....JMHO

 

[BACH]

Here are my thoughts:

ON OFFENSE:

a) TE....Blizzard and Bergen make it....Edwards battles Golliday for #3
b) ROG..Brown versus Bridges
c) WR...McCoy versus Lee for the #4; Holiday versus Hamilton for the #5
d) RB....Anderson versus Scobey for the #3

ON DEFENSE:

a) OLB..Joe versus Keyes for the #7
b) CB....Francisco versus Walls for the #5
c) SS....Shazor versus Mayes
d) FS....Harris versus Ohalete

Once again.....JMHO

Looks right except for two things. We have three battles for a starting spot.
I agree with:
a) TE....Blizzard and Bergen make it....Edwards battles Golliday for #3
b) ROG..Brown versus Bridges

But what about Darling vs. Hayes at OLB?

Scobey vs. Anderson for #3?? I guess you're assuming Hambrick is gone then... There's no way either of them would surpass Hambrick at #3.

BTW.. Am I the only one that thinks we're only keeping 6 LBs on the final roster? The LB group is very deep and Huff, Darling and Hayes can play both inside and outside. That spot for the 7th LB would be better spend on a DB like Shazor in order to keep him off the PS.

 

[spanky1]

Looks right except for two things. We have three battles for a starting spot.
I agree with:
a) TE....Blizzard and Bergen make it....Edwards battles Golliday for #3
b) ROG..Brown versus Bridges

But what about Darling vs. Hayes at OLB?

Scobey vs. Anderson for #3?? I guess you're assuming Hambrick is gone then... There's no way either of them would surpass Hambrick at #3.

BTW.. Am I the only one that thinks we're only keeping 6 LBs on the final roster? The LB group is very deep and Huff, Darling and Hayes can play both inside and outside. That spot for the 7th LB would be better spend on a DB like Shazor in order to keep him off the PS.

There is no battle between Hayes and Darling.....Huff is going outside at W/OLB and Hayes is the heir apparent for the MLB position. Darling becomes a rotational player as Huff's backup at the W/OLB.

Pure and simple........Huff is quicker than Darling.

 

[spanky1]

Oh and another thing........Shazor will not be exposed to being picked up by any other team....remember, no one drafted him. He is easily hidden for the time being.

 

[American Idiot]

What about the quarterback situation. Is everyone still sold on Warner? I am not convinced Warner is the answer. There should be an open quarterback challenge in camp and preseason. Then if Warner wins fine,battle over.

 

[Redheart]

JJ vs. Shipp

 

[BigDavis75]

There is no battle between Hayes and Darling.....Huff is going outside at W/OLB and Hayes is the heir apparent for the MLB position. Darling becomes a rotational player as Huff's backup at the W/OLB.

Pure and simple........Huff is quicker than Darling.

Darling was our top LB thoguh for a good part of the season.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

JJ vs. Shipp

Read between the lines. JJ will start against the Giants.

 

[Garthshort]

Should Have Read

McCoy vs. Lee for the #4 and #5. In other words whoever is the #4, the other guy will be #5. Thus Holiday and Hamilton are battling for the #6 (if there is a #6) and more likely Holiday is headed for the PS. That could change depending on who is going to be the PR and KR.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

McCoy vs. Lee for the #4 and #5. In other words whoever is the #4, the other guy will be #5. Thus Holiday and Hamilton are battling for the #6 (if there is a #6) and more likely Holiday is headed for the PS. That could change depending on who is going to be the PR and KR.

#5 WR or #6 WR could be a KR or PR.

If we don't get a decent KR or PR out of these guys we may be SOL.

Sheldon vs. Powell?

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

What about the quarterback situation. Is everyone still sold on Warner? I am not convinced Warner is the answer. There should be an open quarterback challenge in camp and preseason. Then if Warner wins fine,battle over.

Warner had this job when he signed the contract. McCown may be the man someday, but how could anyone be sold on him after his performance last year.

 

[BACH]

McCoy vs. Lee for the #4 and #5. In other words whoever is the #4, the other guy will be #5. Thus Holiday and Hamilton are battling for the #6 (if there is a #6) and more likely Holiday is headed for the PS. That could change depending on who is going to be the PR and KR.

Actually, I think Spanky got it right.

There's a difference between the #4 and #5 WR. The #4 is the actual #4 WR that plays as the 4th WR in 4-WR sets. The #5 WR is the guy that back-ups Boldin, Fitz and Johnson. If one of them goes down I'm pretty sure Holiday or Hamilton would fill in and not McCoy/Lee.

 

[JeffGollin]

It's hard to predict anything before camp even begins. But guys I've got my eyes on are:

RB - JJ (of course), Shipp (is he all the way back?) and Damien Anderson (I've seen past flashes. I'm pulling for him).

WR - McCoy (possible home run threat), Holliday (slash potential). Both can return punts and kickoffs. Sheldon (Will he live up to his small school billings as a returner?)

TE - Bergen, Blizzard, Edwards (Should we simply hope for a solid "place-holder" or blocking specialist here? Or will at least one of these three or someone else step up and add something more as a receiver?)

OL - Elton Brown (a lot of pressure on the kid, but he may hold the key to our success on offense). Will any of the lesser-knowns (Allen, Cantu, Haayer, Ruber, Newton, Wakefield etc.) step to the fore & provide us with quality depth or better?

DL - Chike (His impact on pass "D". But also, whether he can stand up vs the strong side run), Wendell Bryant (final chance to prove he belongs), Russell Davis (truly improved? Or one year flash?). Antonio Smith (will the potential translate into production this year?) Kenny King (Will he stay healthy? If so, will he expand on what he's flashed earlier?)

LB - Lance Mitchell (if he returns to pre-injury form, he could make a huge difference), Huff (what's he bring?) Blackstock (Looked physically impressive in college. Will this translate into success for us?) Hayes (this is the first year he has a real opportunity to become "the man." Will he?)

CB - Rolle. (How much more solid will our secondary be with Antrel playing opposite Macklin?) Green (Starter or backup - now or down the road?)

S - Griffin (What's he got left? Would wisdom trump any physical dropoff). Francisco (just a hunch). Mayes (Will this be his breakout year?) Ohalete (How much further along the learning curve can he or will he move?)

OC - Rowan (Will the offense be wide open/explosive or run-dominated? How creative will be his play calling?)

(Note - players not mentioned above are those who figure to be either predictably good or bad. The ones I mentioned are ones I'm excited about, but haven't done anything yet).

 

[CaptTurbo]

What about the quarterback situation. Is everyone still sold on Warner? I am not convinced Warner is the answer. There should be an open quarterback challenge in camp and preseason. Then if Warner wins fine,battle over.

Well I guess you could say Nvarre vs McCown for #2 Id put money on Navarre.

 

[Poorknight1]

If Aaron is battling anyone to be a backup CB then he will lose. Safety is a different matter but you'll never see him lined up outside, I don't think. I think Gollin' assessment is pretty good.


PK1

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Well I guess you could say Nvarre vs McCown for #2 Id put money on Navarre.

Evidently, you've got money to lose...

 

[Redsz]

Random thoughts, not new or original. But they are my own.

At TE we have three unknown guys who have had no major game time at the NFL level looking to get the nod.

Blizzard did great in Europe, but that doesn't translate to sucess at the NFL level. Edwards had game time last year and looked decent, but played little. And finally Bergen, who comes with recieving accolades and proburbly should of been drafted but has to get stronger.

It will be intreasting to see if we have a clear cut 'winner' at this postion battle. Or... If we do the TE postion by committee, and use the FB's Femi and Hodgins (which is an area of strength IMO) more often to compensate for our young and unproven TE's.

At LB, the only definate is Dansby on the outside. The rest of the spots are up for grabs.

I like Gerald Hayes, but he is unproven in the middle and has mostly seen action on special teams. But he has sideline to sideline speed, is a hitter and got a heap of tackles in limited game time last year.

Huff is an unknown to me. I didn't see much of him with the Seahawks. He is quick, but is prone to mental mistakes. G&G liked him though (if only a backup plan if Ed Hartwell didn't sign). He has taken reps inside and out and is said to be the front runner for the other OLB spot. But who knows?

James Darling is the vet but still retains much. He had his best year last year and it was a solid performance. I will never forget him destroying Aaron Brooks against NO. He is getting older though... And the coaching staff could be looking to phase him out and introduce some new blood.

Lance Mitchell to me, is the wild card here. If he is a 100% back from his leg injury he could push for a starting spot. Definate 1st round ability, Mitchell has great tackling technique and speed. He said he was keen to play MLB and maybe he will push Hayes out to OLB... Or maybe out of the starting line up? If this guy is healthy, I believe he has a future in Cardinal red.

 

[joeshmo]

Random thoughts, not new or original. But they are my own.

Some good points brought up.

As for the TE/FB situation yo brought up there is some teeth to the FB playing more and TE playing less. An article stated a while ago that in the mini camps the 2 back sets were being used a lot more then last year. But they never said if the TE was on the field or if we wwere still using the 3 wide sets. My guess is that the 3 wide set is our staple which means in mini camp we were using a lot of 3 wide 2 back sets with no TE. I think we are going to use that set a lot more next year or at least until a TE emerges from our group. Which diminishes the playing time of the TE for at least the time being.

As for Darling and Huff competition I am of the believe that the switch was made because Huff has about 5 more lbs then Darling, 2 inches taller, and is faster. All the while retaining similar styles and and abilities. Huff just needs to be as consistent as Darling is/was. But Darling will still get plenty of playing time with Pendy liking to keep guys fresh and rotate different guys for different packages.

As for Hayes I am going to make the prediction right now that by game 8 Mitchell or someone else will be the starting at MLB. I just didnt see the ability for him to be a starter when he got the chance last year, at least not like everyone else saw.

Blackstock wont be starting this year(unless injury of course) but he will see a lot of playing time on pass rush downs and be groomed to start, may make the move by next year but no latter then 2007 when Huffs and Darlings contract ends.

 

[kerouac9]

Blackstock wont be starting this year(unless injury of course) but he will see a lot of playing time on pass rush downs and be groomed to start, may make the move by next year but no latter then 2007 when Huffs and Darlings contract ends.

I should hope so. As of this moment, with Dansby securing the spot at the Strongside OLB position, this team lacks anything like a true Weakside linebacker, a premire position in the NFL today. Huff/Darling/Hayes are too big and don't have quite the skill set to play the position effectively (mostly because none of them have the wheels to get out into the flat to cover 'backs on pass routes).

I agree that Blackstock should get a lot of playing time this season, and maybe a start of two toward the end of the season. If his instincts can improve and he can really hit the books and be a factor, hopefully the Cards will locate OLBs that they're not going to have to keep drafting them year after year.

I'm not certain that either Mitchell or Hayes are going to be the long-term answer at MLB. I'm optimistic for Mitchell, but not overly so. There's a reason that he fell so far in the draft, and it may have more to do with just the injury. I wonder if docs saw something on film... but the reward was defintely worth the risk.

 

[spanky1]

I should hope so. As of this moment, with Dansby securing the spot at the Strongside OLB position, this team lacks anything like a true Weakside linebacker, a premire position in the NFL today. Huff/Darling/Hayes are too big and don't have quite the skill set to play the position effectively (mostly because none of them have the wheels to get out into the flat to cover 'backs on pass routes).

I agree that Blackstock should get a lot of playing time this season, and maybe a start of two toward the end of the season. If his instincts can improve and he can really hit the books and be a factor, hopefully the Cards will locate OLBs that they're not going to have to keep drafting them year after year.

I'm not certain that either Mitchell or Hayes are going to be the long-term answer at MLB. I'm optimistic for Mitchell, but not overly so. There's a reason that he fell so far in the draft, and it may have more to do with just the injury. I wonder if docs saw something on film... but the reward was defintely worth the risk.

If Hayes,Huff and/or Darling are too big to play W/OLB in your mind, how does Blackstock fit then ?

Here are their measurables: Blackstock: 6'3"/240; Huff: 6'2"/250; Darling: 6'1"/245.

According to the NFL Optimum Size Grading, a W/OLB should ideally be 6'3"/245.

The real issues determining an effective W/OLB is speed for pass rushing, ability to take on blocks as necessary and tackling. All of these players fit the bill to a tee with the exception that Darling has lost a step or two over his 9 years.

 

[spanky1]

Furthermore k9,

Hayes is a ferocious tackler and has excellent sideline to sideline speed. This is what you want in a MLB. He played to an extremely high level while at Pitt. He only played a couple of games last year and in one he had 9 tackles. I believe that you will see him have a breakout year in 2005.

Mitchell dropped ONLY because of his injury in 2003. It takes two years for an ACL to fully heal and I would expect that he will be back to top form later this year.....much like it took Boldin to get to 100% as of now.

If there is a real strength in our secondary, it is the LB's. We have a very good chance to have one of the leagues best in this regard over the next year to two.

 

[kerouac9]

If Hayes,Huff and/or Darling are too big to play W/OLB in your mind, how does Blackstock fit then ?

Here are their measurables: Blackstock: 6'3"/240; Huff: 6'2"/250; Darling: 6'1"/245.

According to the NFL Optimum Size Grading, a W/OLB should ideally be 6'3"/245.

The real issues determining an effective W/OLB is speed for pass rushing, ability to take on blocks as necessary and tackling. All of these players fit the bill to a tee with the exception that Darling has lost a step or two over his 9 years.

Where are you getting your "Optimum Size Grading" from? The best WLBs in the NFL: Julian Peterson (6'3", 235), Keith Brooking (6'2", 245), Lavar Arrington (but he's a freak at 6'3", 255). Huff and Darling are too slow, and not good enough rushers to be premire WLBs. They've had a long time to prove otherwise, and haven't. Are you going to argue that even though they've been in the league 5 and 9 years respectively, they're suddenly going to blossom into Pro Bowlers? Please.

Blackstock could turn out to be the best WLB Arizona has had since Jamir Miller. That's what I'm saying. Your "real issues determining an effective W/OLB" sound a lot like what you'd want in a football player. Huff and Darling are too slow to be able to defend receivers coming out of the backfield, just as they're too slow to run with tight ends. That's just how it is.

Hayes is a ferocious tackler and has excellent sideline to sideline speed. This is what you want in a MLB. He played to an extremely high level while at Pitt. He only played a couple of games last year and in one he had 9 tackles. I believe that you will see him have a breakout year in 2005.

Mitchell dropped ONLY because of his injury in 2003. It takes two years for an ACL to fully heal and I would expect that he will be back to top form later this year.....much like it took Boldin to get to 100% as of now.

If there is a real strength in our secondary, it is the LB's. We have a very good chance to have one of the leagues best in this regard over the next year to two.

If that were true, then why couldn't he beat out old, broken down Ronald McKinnon the past three years? Why was he such a non-factor in the games that he did start? Why did we feel it necessary not only to draft a rookie MLB, but also sign one as a free agent? It must be because he's so good.

Are you some kind of insider who knows why every team in the NFL passed on Lance Mitchell for five rounds despite an immensely weak class at the MLB position? WTF, man? I have high hopes for the kid, but for a fifth-round pick that means "making the active roster for 12-16 games and playing well on special teams." Maybe he's a steal, but none of the "experts" (except those on this board) seem to think so.

Man, you're way out of control in your estimation of this roster.

 

[spanky1]

Where are you getting your "Optimum Size Grading" from? The best WLBs in the NFL: Julian Peterson (6'3", 235), Keith Brooking (6'2", 245), Lavar Arrington (but he's a freak at 6'3", 255). Huff and Darling are too slow, and not good enough rushers to be premire WLBs. They've had a long time to prove otherwise, and haven't. Are you going to argue that even though they've been in the league 5 and 9 years respectively, they're suddenly going to blossom into Pro Bowlers? Please.

Blackstock could turn out to be the best WLB Arizona has had since Jamir Miller. That's what I'm saying. Your "real issues determining an effective W/OLB" sound a lot like what you'd want in a football player. Huff and Darling are too slow to be able to defend receivers coming out of the backfield, just as they're too slow to run with tight ends. That's just how it is.



If that were true, then why couldn't he beat out old, broken down Ronald McKinnon the past three years? Why was he such a non-factor in the games that he did start? Why did we feel it necessary not only to draft a rookie MLB, but also sign one as a free agent? It must be because he's so good.

Are you some kind of insider who knows why every team in the NFL passed on Lance Mitchell for five rounds despite an immensely weak class at the MLB position? WTF, man? I have high hopes for the kid, but for a fifth-round pick that means "making the active roster for 12-16 games and playing well on special teams." Maybe he's a steal, but none of the "experts" (except those on this board) seem to think so.

Man, you're way out of control in your estimation of this roster.

k9,



First off: Hayes started one (1) game in 2004 as an MLB, against Seattle in game 15 and had nine (9) tackles. The rest of the time he was strickly a ST'er....and a darn good one at that. How can you tell me he's not got what it may take to become a good MLB. That he wasn't able to dislodge McKinnon...hell man he was in his second year. He was a D3 in '03 for crying out loud.

Second off: All I said regarding Mitchell is that he has been slow to recover from his ACL and that is the reason he fell in the draft. I never said he was a Pro Bowl material.

Thirdly: Huff has never played W/OLB so how do you know how he will end up playing in this position this year.....and I never implied that they were Pro Bowl players either.... but there is no denying that Darling has proved himself as a solid player over the years.....with last year being his most productive yet.

Fifthly: There are numerous resources available through the media team at the NFL that put this type of info together (optimum size type info). Do your bloody homework. How about the other premier OLB over and above those you mentioned: Vrabel at 6'4"/261 or Joey Porter at 6'3"/250 or DJ Williams at 6'1"/242 or Marcus Washington at 6'3"/243.

For crying out loud......quit being so damn defensive when someone questions your posts from time to time. Do you thrive on starting battles?

 

[JeffGollin]

Are you some kind of insider who knows why every team in the NFL passed on Lance Mitchell for five rounds despite an immensely weak class at the MLB position?
Possible reasons -

1. Rarely are MLB's drafted high.

2. Some teams place a higher priority on toughness, size (to a diminishing degree) and diagnostic instincts than pure range when evaluating MLB's (not that sideline to sideline range isn't nice or that more speed isn;t coming into vogue - it's just not as high as it might be for an OLB). So if Mitchell isn't blazing fast, it could be that this could be ignored in light of what the Cardinals might feel is required for the MLB position

3. Mitchell wasn't all the way back from a knee injury and both his numbers and his play apparently reflected this and scared off a bunch of teams.

4. Rod, Dennis and Clancy evidently saw something that warranted taking a flyer on Mitchell with a fifth round pick. (The draft is an inexact science. I don't think anyone is saying that Lance will be a surefire steal. But I know I'm very excited at the prospect of what he might do to help our team if it turns out the roll of the dice was worth it).

 

[joeshmo]

First off: Hayes started one (1) game in 2004 as an MLB, against Seattle in game 15 and had nine (9) tackles. The rest of the time he was strickly a ST'er....and a darn good one at that.

9 Tackles yes, an impactfull 9 tackles. Doubtful.

We got shreded for 175 yards rushing at the same time. All Hayes fault nope, but being the MLB more of the load in on his shoulders then not.

As for being a good ST'er, what does that have to do with being a good starter.

Could Hayes maybe be a good MLB, yes, but the guy hasnt done a darn thing to put any kind of confidence in our MLB spot with him starting, IMO.