You act like Hornacek hasn't stressed defense too, BC. He has.
He didn't say the best five offensively. Best five, period.
He didn't say the best five offensively. Best five, period.
Training camp scrimmage
- Thread starter JCSunsfan
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elindholm
edited for content
We saw this coming months ago. The Suns' roster has four categories:
1. point guards
2. wings
3. big men who can't play
4. Markieff Morris and possibly TJ Warren
That's what were going to war with. Get used to it.
1. point guards
2. wings
3. big men who can't play
4. Markieff Morris and possibly TJ Warren
That's what were going to war with. Get used to it.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Today, on AzCentral.com/Az Republic, Horny was quoted as saying, "We're going to go with the best group out there. I don't care if it's five point guards."
That is either exaggeration, a joke or close to serious.
Obviously, the reference is to offensive sets. What about defense? The five smallest guys on the team are not going to defend against two power players, two wings and a point guard on a traditional team. And no other team is going to put their five smallest guys on the court.
I hope Jeff is not turning into another Mike D'Antoni, who used to make jokes to the Press about playing defense. Jeff is already close to an SSOL offense mindset, except for rotating players in and out vs. D'Antoni's hardly using the bench.
It sounds like we are going to be the Harlem Globetrotters of the NBA. Except our opponents are not going to be the Washington Generals.
You are THIS close to finally falling over that cliff you've perched on for so many years...
Of COURSE he was exaggerating.
mojorizen7
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JS22
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Hornacek is going to play his 5 best players. Because of this we're going to see a LOT of smaller lineups meant to run the other team out of the gym. Some of the folks on this board are in for a looooong season. (And the rest of us will definitely hear about it.)
I'm sure if the Suns had someone like Drummond, Davis, etc, things would be very different. But they don't yet. So you go with what you've got.
I'm going to enjoy the ride and understand that it's a process. Hopefully by the end of the season we'll have a clearer idea of what Markieff, Plumlee, and Len are capable of. And the Suns can make moves accordingly.
I'm sure if the Suns had someone like Drummond, Davis, etc, things would be very different. But they don't yet. So you go with what you've got.
I'm going to enjoy the ride and understand that it's a process. Hopefully by the end of the season we'll have a clearer idea of what Markieff, Plumlee, and Len are capable of. And the Suns can make moves accordingly.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Wins will help.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Not "period". He said, ""We're going to go with the best group out there. I don't care if it's five point guards."
If it was an exaggeration to prepare us for the best five players regardless of position, especially if it is heavy on point guards, as he said, we are going to be hurting defensively and in rebounding (which occurs mostly on defense).
It comes down to each sweaty body, face to face with a more powerful, taller player coming at him, defending him or working to out-rebound him.
That is the moment of truth.
I also don't like to hear someone say "I don't care ..." vs. "even if ..." The 'I don't care" statement is a negative way of presenting it.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that Jeff is caught in the middle. He has to work with what he was given by the Front Office. Unlike D'Antoni, Jeff is not wearing two hats.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Sounds like you've already given up on this team. Say it isn't so BC!
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I've rooted for the Suns since the early 1970's. From Cotton to MacLeod through D'Antoni and Porter, Gentry and Hunter. And certainly with Horny.
Because they are our home team and relocating my family here was a labor of love. Of course, the 40-foot swimming pool in the backyard and desert weather didn't hurt.
So I will continue rooting for my home team. But, yes, at the age of 73, I am giving up on the philosophy which was initially described as "finesse" making us anything more than an entertaining team.
If I didn't care, I wouldn't be a paying member of ASFN, as well as its predecessors, and I wouldn't be so frustrated.
Oh yeah, one more thing. For the small amount involved, why isn't every regular poster on ASFN a CONTRIBUTOR?
'Just asking.
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Today, on AzCentral.com/Az Republic, Horny was quoted as saying, "We're going to go with the best group out there. I don't care if it's five point guards."
That is either exaggeration, a joke or close to serious.
Obviously, the reference is to offensive sets. What about defense? The five smallest guys on the team are not going to defend against two power players, two wings and a point guard on a traditional team. And no other team is going to put their five smallest guys on the court.
I hope Jeff is not turning into another Mike D'Antoni, who used to make jokes to the Press about playing defense. Jeff is already close to an SSOL offense mindset, except for rotating players in and out vs. D'Antoni's hardly using the bench.
It sounds like we are going to be the Harlem Globetrotters of the NBA. Except our opponents are not going to be the Washington Generals.
IMO, this is an exaggeration made to emphasize a point . The Suns going small might resemble Markieff at center and Marcus or Tucker at PF. Also opposing teams will need to consider match-up problems with the Suns. I think Hornacek will be exploiting match-ups, big or small. Also I can see the Suns pressing to create turnovers which they did their last game.
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I think they'll turn that on and off but I don't know that it will always be to create turnovers.
Steve
Errntknght
Registered User
I just watched that interview with Horny... after what you're quoting he went on to say that the team seemed disinterested during the morning shoot around - like all they had to do to win was show up. Then he said(paraphrase) "If the bigs play better we'll go with five bigs"
Somewhere in there he said that the starters were the ones that didn't play hard and that the subs won the game. Which puts his remarks in quite a different light. Starters vs. subs was the dichotomy, not smalls vs. bigs.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I hope that Horny doesn't think only in terms of one extreme or the other.
The best answer usually lies somewhere in the middle. Basketball has been played for a long time with two Bigs, two Wings and a Point. Even when they were shooting into peach baskets.
JustWinBaby
Veteran
I am sure glad we do not have to endure 60 win seasons anymore. It was just horrible.
Chaz
observationist
Today the big need to be basketball players and not just big. That tall lumbering guy that can't shoot outside of 10 feet is a thing of the past.I hope that Horny doesn't think only in terms of one extreme or the other.
The best answer usually lies somewhere in the middle. Basketball has been played for a long time with two Bigs, two Wings and a Point. Even when they were shooting into peach baskets.
Like it or not the olympics and the international game has changed the NBA.
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I don't know. I found myself wishing the Suns had figured out a way to draft Jusuf Nurkic. He is exactly what the Suns need at center. However, he is not that tall lumbering guy you are talking about. He really knows how to rebound and move around.
I hope that Horny doesn't think only in terms of one extreme or the other.
The best answer usually lies somewhere in the middle. Basketball has been played for a long time with two Bigs, two Wings and a Point. Even when they were shooting into peach baskets.
I'm sure he doesn't. You, however, seem to think there's only one way to succeed which involves a traditional PG, a traditional SG, a traditional SF, a traditional PF, and a traditional C. I disagree with you there. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
But it's not the "5 Point Guards" or "5 Big's", both of which Horny has quoted to the Press and I commented on.
Even in jest, he's citing extremes. And extremes rarely perservere.
The goal on any given night isn't whether you are "good" or "bad". Just that you are better than your opponent. I can't picture having 5 Point Guards or 5 Big's on your mind accomplishing that.
There is also something to be said for having a feel for the rest of the lineup when you're on the floor. Developing a 6th sense. The teams that accomplish it are the ones that usually come out on top.
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JCSunsfan
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It was hyperbole for the purpose of pointing out that specific positions will not be as important to him as effectiveness. IOW, he will not get stuck on traditional positions but will do what works best to produce a win.
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This. Coach Hornacek doesn't care about extremes, he cares about results. He's just trying to make a point.
"we're going to war with"
That is a fair point but the term "succeed" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are talking titles, there is not much anecdotal evidence that playing regularly with guys out of position versus more a more traditional lineup is more successful.
I guess if you define success as racking up wins and just getting to the playoffs...OK. I guess baby steps. We need to get there first.
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JCSunsfan
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Ha. Just so you all know. When I am typing with my thumbs on my phone, all attention to punctuation and capitalization goes out the window.
I was just having fun with Eric as he had corrected another poster. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." and all that.
That is my problem as well. I type really really fast. At work I am more meticulous. However, half the time I post here from my i-devices and fat finger stuff all the time. Damn auto-correct jacks me up often putting the wrong tense in words I type. Meh!
At the end of the day the forums are not school or work to me so I care much less.
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