Updated Depth Chart

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Every extreme pessimist claims to be a realist.

Truth is every fan is skewed at least slightly towards pessimism or optimism. Anyone who tries to argue that they aren't is in fact out of touch with reality.

 

[Raze]

No, I'm a realist. How can you NOT see we are paper thin at those positions?

Because it isn't supported by facts or reason.

Since you've taken a position of relativity, my rebuttal would be, "Paper thin" as compared to whom? How do we compare to the rest of the NBA?

Speaking solely about the SF position...

I'm not going to crunch ALL the numbers involved with this, but if you look at PER (imperfect that is) you would see that Bridges/Johnson rate #22/#23 respectively at SF with an average of 12.96. Obviously that means we have 2 of the top 25 in PER at SF. By glancing it appears only 7 other teams can claim that. That would mean that just around half of the teams don't have a single SF in the to 25 (ie. I didn't see Portland, Dallas, or OKC in there).

It would be interesting to see what the average PER of the top two SF for each team would be, but I'd bet we are top half, maybe top 10. That's a far cry from "paper thin" at SF.

But since statistical facts are limiting we should also be reasonable about the assessment. For example, PER does not account for defense. And while Johnson is limited on D, Bridges is exceptional (many already consider him one of the best wing defenders in the league). And Cam, in one year, has already established himself as a sniper from 3. Also, it stands to reason, that these young players are on the rise, not fall (And will inherit all the playing time Oubre accrued). So compared to aging players that might be ahead of them, they are heading in opposite directions. Any reasonable person would see we have two commodites at SF, and not the opposite.

One last thing, when you have stars at the 1 and 2 with a rising talent at the 5, you don't expect the 3 and 4 to stand out. You want hard working guys who fill in the gaps that the others leave to make your team well rounded. Bridges, Johnson, Crowder and maybe Saric and Smith should do just fine complimenting Paul, Book and Ayton.

And as for SG, seriously? I'd bet more than 25 teams would trade places with us right now for Book and whoever. We are most definately NOT paper thin at SG depth as it compares to other teams when you factor who our starting SG is.

 

[1Sun]

Because it isn't supported by facts or reason.

Since you've taken a position of relativity, my rebuttal would be, "Paper thin" as compared to whom? How do we compare to the rest of the NBA?

Speaking solely about the SF position...

I'm not going to crunch ALL the numbers involved with this, but if you look at PER (imperfect that is) you would see that Bridges/Johnson rate #22/#23 respectively at SF with an average of 12.96. Obviously that means we have 2 of the top 25 in PER at SF. By glancing it appears only 7 other teams can claim that. That would mean that just around half of the teams don't have a single SF in the to 25 (ie. I didn't see Portland, Dallas, or OKC in there).

It would be interesting to see what the average PER of the top two SF for each team would be, but I'd bet we are top half, maybe top 10. That's a far cry from "paper thin" at SF.

But since statistical facts are limiting we should also be reasonable about the assessment. For example, PER does not account for defense. And while Johnson is limited on D, Bridges is exceptional (many already consider him one of the best wing defenders in the league). And Cam, in one year, has already established himself as a sniper from 3. Also, it stands to reason, that these young players are on the rise, not fall (And will inherit all the playing time Oubre accrued). So compared to aging players that might be ahead of them, they are heading in opposite directions. Any reasonable person would see we have two commodites at SF, and not the opposite.

One last thing, when you have stars at the 1 and 2 with a rising talent at the 5, you don't expect the 3 and 4 to stand out. You want hard working guys who fill in the gaps that the others leave to make your team well rounded. Bridges, Johnson, Crowder and maybe Saric and Smith should do just fine complimenting Paul, Book and Ayton.

And as for SG, seriously? I'd bet more than 25 teams would trade places with us right now for Book and whoever. We are most definately NOT paper thin at SG depth as it compares to other teams when you factor who our starting SG is.

Cam's PER was less than 10 when he played SF. It was time at stretch 4 that raised his PER. You need to consider Cam's effectiveness at the position rather than just citing PER that includes stats at a different position. Cam is a back-up stretch 4, not a 3. The only back-up 3 we have is Nader.

As for SG, you just answered the question yourself. Last I checked "whoever" isn't an effective back-up. Booker is literally the only shooting guard sized shooting guard we have on the roster, and Okobo is the only other shooting guard we have on our main roster, period. Booker isn't playing 48 minutes per game, and his history is such that he isn't playing every single game, either.

 

[Mainstreet]

There isn't even a single team that has 12 million in cap space available. Why on Earth would we offer him 3 million over what anyone else could offer him?

This was an estimate to see how much money the Suns had left to spend and look at the roster. Nothing more.

 

[sinsay]

PG Paul/Carter/Payne/Oko

SG Booker/Moore/Payne/Tyshon

SF Bridges/Cam/Nader

PF Jae.C/Dario/Cam/Smith

C Ayton/Dario/Smith/Jones

That a Team that can shoot and defends should be the 5th seed.

 

[elindholm]

PG Paul/Carter/Payne/Oko

SG Booker/Moore/Payne/Tyshon

SF Bridges/Cam/Nader

PF Jae.C/Dario/Cam/Smith

C Ayton/Dario/Smith/Jones

That a Team that can shoot and defends should be the 5th seed.

I didn't realize what a gaping hole backup C is. There are going to be plenty of days on which Ayton is hurt, in foul trouble, ineffective, or suspended. Saric can't defend even an average center, never mind a good one. What happened to the thin guy who was intermittently effective last season, I'm blanking on his name?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I didn't realize what a gaping hole backup C is. There are going to be plenty of days on which Ayton is hurt, in foul trouble, ineffective, or suspended. Saric can't defend even an average center, never mind a good one. What happened to the thin guy who was intermittently effective last season, I'm blanking on his name?

Diallo? I think they're moving on. Jones seems like a mild upgrade.

 

[SunsTzu]

I didn't realize what a gaping hole backup C is. There are going to be plenty of days on which Ayton is hurt, in foul trouble, ineffective, or suspended. Saric can't defend even an average center, never mind a good one. What happened to the thin guy who was intermittently effective last season, I'm blanking on his name?

Diallo or Frank? Neither of them had their options picked up. Jones is essentially a Diallo replacement but I honestly like Diallo more. Jalen even as a rookie should be able to provide at least what Frank was giving.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I didn't realize what a gaping hole backup C is. There are going to be plenty of days on which Ayton is hurt, in foul trouble, ineffective, or suspended. Saric can't defend even an average center, never mind a good one. What happened to the thin guy who was intermittently effective last season, I'm blanking on his name?

I think Jones is more than a capable backup. Not a great rebounder, but with his size and athleticism he can block shots and be a big lob threat.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm hoping Jalen Smith can give the Suns the minutes and more that went to Diallo and Kaminsky.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I didn't realize what a gaping hole backup C is. There are going to be plenty of days on which Ayton is hurt, in foul trouble, ineffective, or suspended. Saric can't defend even an average center, never mind a good one. What happened to the thin guy who was intermittently effective last season, I'm blanking on his name?

I think it’s fine. Ayton’s d at center is better than you think it is. Diallo and Jones is a wash to me, and Smith is likely an improvement over Handsome Frank. Smith is a rookie so who knows for sure. Also, Jae can handle those small ball centers some teams throw out there.

 

[Mainstreet]

So is Elie Okobo gone? Ricky Rubio was a good player.

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[elindholm]

I meant Diallo, thanks.

I hadn't heard the Damian Jones news. Yes, he fills a need!

 

[Chaplin]

So is Elie Okobo gone? Ricky Rubio was a good player.

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Gambo is an idiot. How can he not include Rubio in that list?

 

[Mainstreet]

Gambo is an idiot. How can he not include Rubio in that list?

That irritates me unless he forgot about Rubio.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That irritates me unless he forgot about Rubio.

I am sure it’s an oversight. Still he should pay attention to his own tweets a littl more.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Gambo is an idiot. How can he not include Rubio in that list?

Maybe he wasn't counting him as a player lost because his position has been filled with a better player? Otherwise not sure.

 

[SunsTzu]

That irritates me unless he forgot about Rubio.

He also claimed Baynes is a non player and seems to imply that Jones is an upgrade. Just ridiculous.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am sure it’s an oversight. Still he should pay attention to his own tweets a littl more.

I started reading the follow up tweets. They made it clear enough as well.

 

[Chaplin]

Maybe he wasn't counting him as a player lost because his position has been filled with a better player? Otherwise not sure.

Kaminsky and Diallo were replaced by a better player, so why did he mention them? I think he just forgot.

 

[Mainstreet]

He also claimed Baynes is a non player and seems to imply that Jones is an upgrade. Just ridiculous.

Good point. That was a slight as well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. I see Crowder starting at pf. However, it could be an interesting competition. Crowder is the gritty vet. Cam is the sharpshooting sophomore and Smith as the physically talented rookie.

 

[1Sun]

So. I see Crowder starting at pf. However, it could be an interesting competition. Crowder is the gritty vet. Cam is the sharpshooting sophomore and Smith as the physically talented rookie.

Smith needs time to learn and physically develop his lower body. There is no way he will start this season.

 

[Hoop Head]

Smith needs time to learn and physically develop his lower body. There is no way he will start this season.

And there is no way Ja Morant is more than a 3rd string backup. Your history of judging rookies is shaky at best. It wouldn't be that bad if you didnt feel the need to repeat your take multiple times in each thread, doing so whenever you see someone new mention Jalen Smith.

 

[1Sun]

And there is no way Ja Morant is more than a 3rd string backup. Your history of judging rookies is shaky at best. It wouldn't be that bad if you didnt feel the need to repeat your take multiple times in each thread, doing so whenever you see someone new mention Jalen Smith.

I actually love Jalen Smith as a prospect. I am just concerned that it will actually hurt his development (not to mention the team's fortunes) if too much is asked of him too soon.