Vance Joseph - why does VJ needs to be retained?
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PACardsFan
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Looks like Fangio, Zimmer, and Flores are available. VJ is a below average DC that has to go if this team is to continue to improve.
Good time to get rid of him
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True we had turnovers but we also gave up 3 completely busted TD's 2 in the air one on the ground. To be fair the other TD the one after the fumbled punt wasn't the defenses fault. But 31 points was on them and 21 of them were just gifted by busts
StreetTruckinTitan
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If Mike were to fire anybody he would do wholesale changes and not just fire VJ. He got a lot of flack for firing Steve Wilks back in 2018.
Chopper0080
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We all know what my preference would be.
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Arz101
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Say it please
Chopper0080
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Good news is that the only real defensive FAs we have to re-sign are Chandler Jones, Antonio Hamilton and Joe Walker (lol). I view Gardeck as more of a special teams guy. Seems pretty doable.
juza76
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So we all agree that Joseph shouldn't be retained
Chopper0080
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Which means he will. lol
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Arz101
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Unless there is an upgrade I would not do it. For example, Flores, Fangio, Zimmer are all upgrades
juza76
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So we can keep wasting first round talents for his cerebral schemes which are rarely effective?
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Arz101
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Under BA also Keim picks underperform. It is not all on VJ I think.
Chopper0080
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and if he is retained, Keim needs to understand than he can't trust premium resources to Vance. You can't be drafting/spending big money on hybrid players and/or unique players.
you give Vance his DBs who can tackle and play soft zones. You give Vance his Tanner Vallejo type guys and accept your 16th ranked defense. We will just not be in a position to waste first round picks on his shenanigans.
you give Vance his DBs who can tackle and play soft zones. You give Vance his Tanner Vallejo type guys and accept your 16th ranked defense. We will just not be in a position to waste first round picks on his shenanigans.
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Arz101
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Keim will be looking for undersized WRs in first round this year. Not going to worry about another undersized off line backer this year
Chopper0080
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Budda Baker is the perfect example of what you get with Vance.
Career low in tackles if you take out the extra game. Only year worse was his rookie year.
Highest missed tackle % of career.
In 17 games he was blitzed 34 times, 10 less than his lowest of any year.
2nd worse pressure rate of his career.
It is on Vance.
juza76
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Yes even davonte Campbell had a great season in green bay after playing a so-so season with us
Then i don't know how he can play Hicks 100%, of the snaps and letting golden seeing the field so much
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Arz101
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If you guys are right about Baker usage and Hicks @juza76 @Chopper0080 I don't see how VJ will be retained
Chopper0080
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Budda Baker Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats for Budda Baker. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com
juza76
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Soft defense, failed to develop first rounders, there is enough to cut ties with him
Chopper0080
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And that is why I say if you keep Vance, you can't give him players like Budda, Simmons, Collins, and even Peterson who was surprisingly decent in Minnesota this year. Those guys don't fit the boxes he creates for players in his defensive scheme.
He wants a single high S who can tackle. In his mind Budda was the best player he had for that role but it is not a 13mil+ per season role. It is wasted money on Vance.
Simmons is a hybrid S/LB player. Vance just wants him to be an ILB. The only hybrid thing Vance does is move him around as an ILB. But, he still doesn't blitz him and he only uses his unicorn as a TE eraser. A waste of a first round pick for the role Vance wants to fill.
Same story with Collins.
The one guy who actually is being used close to his skill set and contract value is Jordan Hicks. He is the type of players Vance wants and should be given. A very defined and traditional player who is the Teddy Bridgewater of his defensive QB.
He wants a single high S who can tackle. In his mind Budda was the best player he had for that role but it is not a 13mil+ per season role. It is wasted money on Vance.
Simmons is a hybrid S/LB player. Vance just wants him to be an ILB. The only hybrid thing Vance does is move him around as an ILB. But, he still doesn't blitz him and he only uses his unicorn as a TE eraser. A waste of a first round pick for the role Vance wants to fill.
Same story with Collins.
The one guy who actually is being used close to his skill set and contract value is Jordan Hicks. He is the type of players Vance wants and should be given. A very defined and traditional player who is the Teddy Bridgewater of his defensive QB.
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
Not super enthusiastic about defending Vance today.
It's tough after watching Penny rip my still-beating heart from my chest and then show it to me.
It's tough after watching Penny rip my still-beating heart from my chest and then show it to me.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Giving talent to Vance is like giving a gourmet kitchen to somebody who is just going to cook in the microwave.
kerouac9
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Yeah but you're also playing without two of your top three cornerbacks. Blown coverages happen this way. Especially when Budda is being moved into the box to primarily protect the run.
100%. Keim loves being the smartest guy in the room and invest in these Swiss Army Knife players, and we end up paying a higher price for tools that we don't use. Vance is really just looking for the standard tool set.
I thought this was actually Baker's best season. If we had an experienced center fielder playing in his current role, he would have been that guy again.
Sigh.
This board has been legit filled with how good the defense has been all season. It practically scored 13 of our points last night.
We lose Philips, Watt, Alford and Wilson for a bunch of games. Then we lost CJ for some games to Covid. Golden and Kennard to Covid. Lawrence missed 4. Vallejo missed 6.
And all these came late in the season. We have had guys out there like Joe Walker and Breon Borders.
And it still ended up joint 9th best scoring D in the league.
And you want to throw all that away and upset the coaching balance, change all the coaching staff on D, bring in a new scheme that guys have to learn from scratch setting back Simmons, Wilson, Collins etc for what?
Because Breon Borders couldn't cover Lockett last night?
Up until about 5 games ago when injuries started hitting Vance was in the conversation for head coaching jobs. I've never been a fan but replacing him after this season would be nuts and it has about a 0% chance of happening.
This board has been legit filled with how good the defense has been all season. It practically scored 13 of our points last night.
We lose Philips, Watt, Alford and Wilson for a bunch of games. Then we lost CJ for some games to Covid. Golden and Kennard to Covid. Lawrence missed 4. Vallejo missed 6.
And all these came late in the season. We have had guys out there like Joe Walker and Breon Borders.
And it still ended up joint 9th best scoring D in the league.
And you want to throw all that away and upset the coaching balance, change all the coaching staff on D, bring in a new scheme that guys have to learn from scratch setting back Simmons, Wilson, Collins etc for what?
Because Breon Borders couldn't cover Lockett last night?
Up until about 5 games ago when injuries started hitting Vance was in the conversation for head coaching jobs. I've never been a fan but replacing him after this season would be nuts and it has about a 0% chance of happening.
