Way-too-early Monti Ossenfort Performance Review

[kerouac9]

Being mediocre isn't the way either.

Please explain. Being mediocre is often the first step toward being great.

 

[Stout]

What's funny is that some people around here are overrating what the outcomes could have been.

With Murray out for probably a good chunk of the year, this team was going to suck anyway. Might as well REALLY suck and get a good pick.

Not this season, next season. We'll need to hit grand slam home runs in FA and the draft next offseason to hope to be relevant. I'm very much not interested in 3-year minimum rebuilds in the NFL.

 

[Stout]

With 100 games lost to injuries.

If you think it's hard to find Murphy and Allen level talents...

I'd gladly give them up for an additional real blue chip talent.

In any given draft there are sometimes only 5 real blue chip talents. Adding two blue chip talents is more of a guarantee than anything else.

Being mediocre isn't the way either.

Except we gave them up for nothing, let alone any kind of talent. WTH is this post even, Krang, talking about adding two blue-chip talents while losing Murphy and Allen? We did nothing of the sort.

I think it's hard to get into the playoffs in year two when you jettison good players, refuse to sign replacements, get nothing in return, sign a bunch of nobodies who won't be around after the tank year, and solely rely on draft picks to get better. As I've said, it's a plan, not the only possible plan. And it's a bad one to boot. Unless the plan isn't to compete until 2025, then it becomes an "I want this mutt gone from the FO" plan. None of us should be content to wait until 2025 to even try to be good.

 

[DaHilg]

Be

Humphries isn't a bottom quarter LT. He is easily a mid tier LT, and is probably the best OL overall during the Arizona Cardinals era.

Hernandez played well last year too.

in the cardinals era - is that saying much? Even with that I disagree.. guy has had MAYBE 3 good seasons. Never an been on an All-Pro team..

Again you don’t draft a LT 6th overall to play in 3-4 years at LT. I’m sure there are a few exceptions - Evan Neal for the NYG but I’m not sure they ever envisioned him at LT. Was a lot of discussion as to if he was a large guard, RT or potential LT.. potential.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

With 100 games lost to injuries.

Which is what happens when you continually draft and add players in FA that are injury risks! You can't act surprised when a Rondale Moore is continuously unavailable.

If you think it's hard to find Murphy and Allen level talents...

They were both top 10 players on our team. Now we've developed them for other teams, and replaced them with what? I'd love to know the Murphy/Allen level talent left on the team.

I'd gladly give them up for an additional real blue chip talent.

Me too! Where is the additional real blue chip talent then?

In any given draft there are sometimes only 5 real blue chip talents. Adding two blue chip talents is more of a guarantee than anything else.

Hopium at it's finest! You're assuming we'll get two top 5 picks and they'll hit.

Being mediocre isn't the way either.

It often takes teams steps to get to great - this bizarre magical thinking that we'll go from the sewers to the penthouse has infected brains in #birdcity

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Humphries isn't a bottom quarter LT. He is easily a mid tier LT, and is probably the best OL overall during the Arizona Cardinals era.

Hernandez played well last year too.

Easily.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Dumping everyone is not a plan. If piling up picks and money worked everybody would do it and we’d see a bunch of success stories. Identifying talent moving up and signing them is a plan. I don’t think just passing on a year of free agency moves a team forward. Yeah, you take a chance by giving out a 4 year contract, but the right contract gives the team a pillar to use to start a foundation. Once that year is gone, it’s lost forever. There will always be competition for good players. The Cards have no idea if any of them will go to Arizona even with a top offer. I think you take every chance you have to improve your team. Sure the Cards were a tough sell, but that’s the job and it won’t change dramatically if they start over with a rookie QB. How many years can you rebuild? How many good FAs can you signing one year? Even the best teams typically miss on half their draft picks. You have to run some risks. Victory rarely goes to the faint of heart.

It isn't anywhere close to being that simple. (I know you know this) You also have to have the right owner have the right GM in place who finds the best HC and staff and can identify the right players etc. But being bad enough to draft a Lebron James/Tim Duncan, or a Peyton Manning/Joe Burrow can certainly get you on your way.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not this season, next season. We'll need to hit grand slam home runs in FA and the draft next offseason to hope to be relevant. I'm very much not interested in 3-year minimum rebuilds in the NFL.

LOL

 

[Stout]

LOL

So you think we'll be competitive next year? LOL indeed.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Please explain. Being mediocre is often the first step toward being great.

You explain. I'm not your clown who dances when you ask.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So you think we'll be competitive next year? LOL indeed.

Nope. Where did I say that? I'm laughing at the dilemma you create.

 

[Stout]

Nope. Where did I say that? I'm laughing at the dilemma you create.

You're positing that we can have a less than stellar FA/draft next offseason and still get into the playoffs. This is a LOL

 

[Krangodnzr]

You're positing that we can have a less than stellar FA/draft next offseason and still get into the playoffs. This is a LOL

Where did I say that?

The Cardinals don't have to "hit a grand slam". They just have to have a good offseason.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You explain. I'm not your clown who dances when you ask.

Saving your energy to stick up for the FO for free, smart move!

 

[kerouac9]

You explain. I'm not your clown who dances when you ask.

It's not my assertion, but I'll back up my claim. Despite your disrespectful tone.

Kansas City didn't suddenly become an unstoppable force. They finished second in the division for three straight years under Andy Reid under Alex Smith, including a 9-7 finish in 2014.

The Philadelphia Eagles were a very mediocre 9-8 in 2021 before launching themselves to a Super Bowl the following year. Their 13-3 run to the super bowl in 2017 was preceded by very mediocre consecutive 7-9 seasons the year before.

San Francisco has worked up from a 6-10 record to 10-7 to 13-4 in the past three years. Their run to the conference championship game in 2021 started out as a wild card with a very mediocre 3rd place finish in the NFC West.

Tampa Bay was a mediocre 7-9 in 2019 before signing Tom Brady and vaulting themselves to the Super Bowl the following season.

 

[Stout]

Where did I say that?

The Cardinals don't have to "hit a grand slam". They just have to have a good offseason.

Mm, I don't see a good offseason being nearly enough. We're nothing right now. We burned the house down and have barely started pouring the foundation. We still need foundational pieces--those blue chippers we have spurned--we still need to replace some of the blue and red chippers we've lost, and that only brings us back to last season's level of futility. A good offseason after that will get us to maybe 6-7 wins, IMO. We won't compete until 2025. Which, IIRC, you think is Monti's plan all along. Unless you've changed your mind?

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's not my assertion, but I'll back up my claim. Despite your disrespectful tone.

LOL rich.

Kansas City didn't suddenly become an unstoppable force. They finished second in the division for three straight years under Andy Reid under Alex Smith, including a 9-7 finish in 2014.

Right. They built the team up. It wasn't something that happened overnight.

The Philadelphia Eagles were a very mediocre 9-8 in 2021 before launching themselves to a Super Bowl the following year. Their 13-3 run to the super bowl in 2017 was preceded by very mediocre consecutive 7-9 seasons the year before.

So maybe the Cardinals don't have to be good right away? Maybe they can go 4-12, 7-10, then 13-4?

San Francisco has worked up from a 6-10 record to 10-7 to 13-4 in the past three years. Their run to the conference championship game in 2021 started out as a wild card with a very mediocre 3rd place finish in the NFC West.

Eh that team has gone the way of injuries...

Tampa Bay was a mediocre 7-9 in 2019 before signing Tom Brady and vaulting themselves to the Super Bowl the following season.

QB play is pretty important, isn't it?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Mm, I don't see a good offseason being nearly enough. We're nothing right now.

Add a good pass rusher and a run stopper at DT and a capable corner and the defense could be capable fairly quickly.

We burned the house down and have barely started pouring the foundation. We still need foundational pieces--those blue chippers we have spurned--

What blue chippers were spurned?

we still need to replace some of the blue and red chippers we've lost, and that only brings us back to last season's level of futility.

Last season had a ton of injuries plus leadership incompetence.

A good offseason after that will get us to maybe 6-7 wins, IMO.

That's insane...IMO.

We won't compete until 2025. Which, IIRC, you think is Monti's plan all along. Unless you've changed your mind?

You don't know what will happen. You don't know what players will progress. It's a good possibility you could be wrong.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Saving your energy to stick up for the FO for free, smart move!

I'm not sticking up for the FO.

I'm just not crying that the sky is falling.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm just not crying that the sky is falling.

The sky IS falling, by all standards, and that seems to be a deliberate plan. It's debated around here whether or not it's a good plan, but make no mistake...those are pieces of the sky next to you on the ground.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Which is what happens when you continually draft and add players in FA that are injury risks! You can't act surprised when a Rondale Moore is continuously unavailable.

Injuries are essentially random according to anyone who knows what they are talking about. Try again.

They were both top 10 players on our team. Now we've developed them for other teams, and replaced them with what? I'd love to know the Murphy/Allen level talent left on the team.

Wilson was better than Murphy. Cam Thomas wasn't too far off Allen.

Where would you rank either at their position across the NFL? And if you are trying to tank, there isn't any reason to sign them now.

Me too! Where is the additional real blue chip talent then?

Draft.

Hopium at it's finest! You're assuming we'll get two top 5 picks and they'll hit.

Is it easier to get a top five picks WITH Allen and Murphy or without them?

It often takes teams steps to get to great - this bizarre magical thinking that we'll go from the sewers to the penthouse has infected brains in #birdcity

#strawmanargument

Weak sauce. Try again. The Cardinals will be bad this year, decent next year, and playoff competitive in 2025. Pretty sad attempt you are making to create an argument no one is making.

 

[kerouac9]

Weak sauce. Try again. The Cardinals will be bad this year, decent next year, and playoff competitive in 2025. Pretty sad attempt you are making to create an argument no one is making.

My guy predicting the future here.

Two years of being bad, decent-but-not-playoff-competitive in 2024 (whatever that means), and playoff competitive in 2025.

Sounds like fun! Why couldn't we make the first step and be decent this year? Who knows! No one's made a coherent argument for it.

It's especially hilarious considering this "plan" if we move on from Kyler Murray after this season.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

My guy predicting the future here.

Two years of being bad, decent-but-not-playoff-competitive in 2024 (whatever that means), and playoff competitive in 2025.

Sounds like fun! Why couldn't we make the first step and be decent this year? Who knows! No one's made a coherent argument for it.

It's especially hilarious considering this "plan" if we move on from Kyler Murray after this season.

It could be because there is a monetary restriction put on the team/GM that would never become public.

 

[Stout]

Add a good pass rusher and a run stopper at DT and a capable corner and the defense could be capable fairly quickly.


What blue chippers were spurned?

Last season had a ton of injuries plus leadership incompetence.

That's insane...IMO.

You don't know what will happen. You don't know what players will progress. It's a good possibility you could be wrong.

We traded out of the blue-chip pass rusher sweepstakes. I don't think Paris is a blue-chip player. Even if he is considered one, he isn't nearly as good at his position. I know we disagree on this. Many here on the board want us to continually trade back to get more picks as well, viewing blue chippers as luxury players. Not your quote or necessarily your opinion.

Right, insult my opinion and call it insane. I'll be the bigger poster and refrain from the same.

I don't know what will happen, no. Many of the players that can progress won't be under contract after the season, but others can, sure. I very much doubt I'll be wrong, so I'll disagree that it's a good possibility. Is it a possibility? Eh, first time for everything

 

[Stout]

Injuries are essentially random according to anyone who knows what they are talking about. Try again.

Wilson was better than Murphy. Cam Thomas wasn't too far off Allen.

Where would you rank either at their position across the NFL? And if you are trying to tank, there isn't any reason to sign them now.

Draft.

Is it easier to get a top five picks WITH Allen and Murphy or without them?

#strawmanargument

Weak sauce. Try again. The Cardinals will be bad this year, decent next year, and playoff competitive in 2025. Pretty sad attempt you are making to create an argument no one is making.

Yet who replaces Wilson and Murphy? You can argue it any way you want, but subtraction without addition isn't even staying stable; it's regression.

The draft is the only place to find blue-chip players? I guess we drafted guys like Chandler Jones, then.

It is crystalized. You are fine with a 3-year rebuild. I am not. You are good with Monti's plan. I am not. Gentleman's (internet) handshake and move on?