we can never be champions with D'antoni,Shaq,Hill,Diaw,Barbosa...

[passenger]

"Why will Shaq make difference in play-off's?"..."Shaq is angry and he makes his team champion when he's angry" blah blah blah..Shaq,Diesel,my man..He owned the media,he does this,he does that..

When I wrote a thread in February against the trade,everyone thought I was out of my mind.I said Shaq is lazy,old,horrible free throw shooter,not a good defender,makes a lot of turnovers,he gets angry easily and does silly offensive and intentional defensive fouls,he's an (ok-good) center for an average team in the league but he's not what the Suns need.

Weren't we better against the Spurs last year with Marion?

Barbosa and Diaw are not the answers to the Suns.They still play like a bad rookie,clumsy fouls,horrible defense,even worse turnovers and shot selections.

Some Suns fans still expect Hill and Shaq to play like they used to 10 years ago.They won't improve,plus it's gonna get even worse when they have injury problems.Anyone tell me what did these players give to us in the play-off's?

 

[95pro]

you have a good argument. i'm not going to get into all that with you.

shaq's not injured. GH is. you cant put all that on him for being injured. sure he's older, but what if he wasnt injured.

also its on everyone.
1 game this guy is good.
another game, he sucks but this other guy is good.

 

[MiamiHeat]

the reason HILL is injured is because the SUNS had to play playoffbasketball intensity for the rest of the season after going 2-8 with Shaq after trade. From #1 to in danger of missing playoffs, so they had to play really hard to win regular season games. Come playoff time, Hill isn't rested and he is now injured... and now the other teams are playing playoff basketball too.

 

[GO SPURS GO]

Im a spurs fan and I would have been pissed to lose marion. esp for shaq.

 

[cly2tw]

DA was the only real obstacle that prevents Suns from winning anything in PO. We need a real coach. Period.

 

[passenger]

DA was the only real obstacle that prevents Suns from winning anything in PO. We need a real coach. Period.

the new coach will have a lot to deal with though,players who cant defend,contract of shaq etc,maybe the new coach wouldnt believe in shaq-amare on the paint but there wont be anything he can do about it.

 

[nowagimp]

You forgot amare, the defenseless wonder. If defense wins championships, amare must be unloaded, there is no defense for his defense, he may be the worst PF in the NBA on defense.

 

[cly2tw]

the new coach will have a lot to deal with though,players who cant defend,contract of shaq etc,maybe the new coach wouldnt believe in shaq-amare on the paint but there wont be anything he can do about it.

Players often can't or don't defend because the coach never works on how to. Reduce Nash's roll on offense, with less court time and less ball handling, he could be much better defender too. And Amare will learn defense once the coach's mind is set to "defend or sit, foul trouble or not".

As I put it elsewhere, Shaq/Amare/Nash are going nowhere. We just need to swapping other pieces around a little and we can, and have to, make a last attempt before breaking it up.

 

[passenger]

Players often can't or don't defend because the coach never works on how to. Reduce Nash's roll on offense, with less court time and less ball handling, he could be much better defender too. And Amare will learn defense once the coach's mind is set to "defend or sit, foul trouble or not".

As I put it elsewhere, Shaq/Amare/Nash are going nowhere. We just need to swapping other pieces around a little and we can, and have to, make a last attempt before breaking it up.

i agree partially.

Even with D'antoni,if we had Camby and Shane Battier,we would be good defensively right?

 

[cly2tw]

i agree partially.

Even with D'antoni,if we had Camby and Shane Battier,we would be good defensively right?

The current team with Camby and Battier replacing Shaq would still have tough time with Spurs. Camby is not as good of a man defender against TD than Shaq, but better at PnR. So, TD would dominate instead of Parker.

The bottomline is DA just can't prepare the team well enough to win against well coached ones like Spurs or Jazz unless the talent level is way higher than the other team. Has he ever won a series against an elite team in the PO? Well, only one, against Mavs with JJ.

 

[Ode to Ocho]

shaq's not injured. GH is. you cant put all that on him for being injured. sure he's older, but what if he wasnt injured.

.

What if the Sky wasn't blue? What if ***** didn't smell? What if Shaq could shoot a free throw?

Grant Hill hasn't been healthy in YEARS. Yet Pringles/Kerr laughably claimed that Hill could fill Marion's role despite Marion playing 79 games the past 8 years

 

[Covert Rain]

This team has enough talent to beat the Spurs. So I blame D'Antoni. I blame him for not developing a bench. I blame him for some of the worst play calling I have seen in years. I blame him for not being able to make in game adjustments (which people have been saying since the first Lakers series).

If we had a competent coach with this same personnel the series would be flipped. Seriously....going to Diaw and Barbosa during critical stretches? Having Steve Nash set picks for other guys to shoot versus setting up picks for him? He is one of the best shooters in the NBA and you can't get him open? Seriously?

If it wasn't for the glaringly bad job D'Antoni is doing in the series I would be glad to place more blame on the players. Ultimately, they are the ones playing. However, a coaches job is to put your players in a position to succeed. D'Antoni has clearly not done that. The Marion for Shaq trade is not the problem. It's much deeper then that. The Marion for Shaq trade only exposed the problem more.

Now D'Antoni can't run his players to death with rotations and fast break basketball using his one trick pony system. It forces him to actually Coach with X's and O's during the game. Clearly it's not a trait that D'Antoni seems to have.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I agree with Steel Dog above, and Have been saying it for a long time now. If you look at the pure talent on the Suns vs any other team in the league, it is embarrassing that the team has never even made it to the Finals. All of that is placed on D'Antoni.

The only player(s) that I would give some blame might be Barbosa and/or Diaw... but guess what - they fail because the coach places higher expectations on them than what they can deliver (when you weigh in the history of the two).

 

[mathbzh]

Basically the problem is we can't guard Duncan, we can't guard Parker and we can't guard Ginobili anymore.
Having Diaw trying to run after Parker in game 3 was quiet embarrassing. What was DA thinking? A 6'8 fat FC trying to defend on one of the quickest PG

 

[Joe Mama]

"Why will Shaq make difference in play-off's?"..."Shaq is angry and he makes his team champion when he's angry" blah blah blah..Shaq,Diesel,my man..He owned the media,he does this,he does that..

When I wrote a thread in February against the trade,everyone thought I was out of my mind.I said Shaq is lazy,old,horrible free throw shooter,not a good defender,makes a lot of turnovers,he gets angry easily and does silly offensive and intentional defensive fouls,he's an (ok-good) center for an average team in the league but he's not what the Suns need.

Weren't we better against the Spurs last year with Marion?

Barbosa and Diaw are not the answers to the Suns.They still play like a bad rookie,clumsy fouls,horrible defense,even worse turnovers and shot selections.

Some Suns fans still expect Hill and Shaq to play like they used to 10 years ago.They won't improve,plus it's gonna get even worse when they have injury problems.Anyone tell me what did these players give to us in the play-off's?

We were better last year against San Antonio with Shawn Marion AND Kurt Thomas. We could play the if game all day long. I really believe that the biggest difference between the three playoff games and the regular season so far has been the injury to Grant Hill. Unfortunately injuries in sports happen, and especially when the coach for runs his team into the ground all season long.

Defensively there are a couple problems. Obviously, playing defense has not been the focus of this team since Scott Skiles left. On top of that two of their starters are at the very bottom of the NBA defensively at their positions (Nash and Amare) and Shaq struggles mightily in the pick and roll.


And yes, Mike D'Antoni is getting worked over by the best coach in the NBA right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We were better last year against San Antonio with Shawn Marion AND Kurt Thomas.

i really don't get how Marion peeps continually ignore the above.

 

[hsandhu]

i really don't get how Marion peeps continually ignore the above.

i don't get how people who watched phx play s.a. w/marion the last few years say the suns miss his defense. excuse me, he got his ass lit up by parker all the time.

shawn marion's defense was so incredibly overrated it's almost comical. i'm someone who loves and notices great defense, shawn marion was certainly not a great defender.

i think people looked at his freakish athleticism and thought that translates to tremendous d, but it didn't. if he had the desire to he could have translated it into being an elite defender but he didn't

 

[Cheesebeef]

i don't get how people who watched phx play s.a. w/marion the last few years say the suns miss his defense. excuse me, he got his ass lit up by parker all the time.

shawn marion's defense was so incredibly overrated it's almost comical. i'm someone who loves and notices great defense, shawn marion was certainly not a great defender.

i think people looked at his freakish athleticism and thought that translates to tremendous d, but it didn't. if he had the desire to he could have translated it into being an elite defender but he didn't

agreed.

 

[jandaman]

Actually Marion did a lot for the Suns defensively..

people... err.. fans just notice the obvious, the plays they can see in front of them.

Coaches around the league know Marion's defensive capability.

When Marion is on the court,

[1] Opponents are more "picky" with passes towards the direction of Marion, due to his length and quickness. Basically, in most possesions, passing optings are limited somehow or are more difficult to pull off. Marion's presense alone distracted passing lanes.

[2] Again, length and athletism and effort. Parker, sure, could still score on Marion and he did. But it was much more difficult, he had to exert more effort and energy. Also, jump shots are altered to a certain degree due to his length. Usually, players were a bit uneasy, compared to now at least, when Marion was there.

[3] His ability to cover a PG to a PF, decently. Can anyone else say that to anyone currently on the Suns? Hill, maybe for 15 minutes, but it takes too much out of him, as you can see already through his nagging injuries... he played hard for the season... its not really a surprise he is feeling it now.... he should of cut down his minutes after all-star weekend.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Coaches around the league know Marion's defensive capability.

is that why they've never voted him to ONE All-Defense team?

 

[GorrilaLips]

You think marion is cheering for the Spurs right now?

 

[passenger]

You think marion is cheering for the Spurs right now?

oh no way
well,maybe,
who knows

 

[GorrilaLips]

oh no way
well,maybe,
who knows

You know he was up and dancing around in his living room....

 

[dodie53]

You know he was up and dancing around in his living room....

you're wrong,
marion was watching cartoons

 

[GorrilaLips]

you're wrong,
marion was watching cartoons

yOuKnoWhaImSayin'...