What are Matt's excuses this week?

D-Dogg

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Overthrow of a wideopen breaston.
That was Breaston's fault...he was coming right towards us, then he held up, then ran again. If he handn't, he scores. That was on him. The other one, Early fell down or he would have had a catch too.

That said, the called back INT was terrible, and overall Matt didn't look very good at all. Even though I put the Early INT on the WR, his ball was high a lot, another couple of throws SHOULD have been picked, and it wasn't a very impressive outing.
 
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Duckjake

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Just to clarify I'm not saying that Colt McCoy will be a successful NFL QB. Far from it. Just that he's as close to a carbon copy of the current Kurt Warner as you are going to find in college football.
 

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That was Breaston's fault...he was coming right towards us, then he held up, then ran again. If he handn't, he scores. That was on him. The other one, Early fell down or he would have had a catch too.

Wolfley made the same statements on the radio call about the Breaston throw.

Fitz sure didn't appear to fight very much for inside position on that pick, letting Woodson manhandle him for thr right to the ball. Matt did throw the ball too far inside though.
 

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I think the Woodson pick was just the guy who should be DPOY making a great play. The one after that was just very badly thrown. I disagree with the comments about bad reads and noodle arm. From this preseason on he's been throwing the ball deep with ease. He was just throwing everything high, which is something he's been doing all year. High throws are just about the worst thing a QB can do so for his sake I hope he can correct that but it's just been way too common with him this year.
 
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I think the Woodson pick was just the guy who should be DPOY making a great play. The one after that was just very badly thrown. I disagree with the comments about bad reads and noodle arm. From this preseason on he's been throwing the ball deep with ease. He was just throwing everything high, which is something he's been doing all year. High throws are just about the worst thing a QB can do so for his sake I hope he can correct that but it's just been way too common with him this year.

Just watched it again after reading your post. He barely bumps Fitz and is in decent position. But the Ball went way out in from of Fitz and right to Woodson. Just a bad throw. If he threw it more inside to where Fitz was it wouldn't be a pick.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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if you didnt watch most of the game why even comment? Game planning has zero to do with missingcwide open WR's, throwing horrible picks, 3 all together but was saved by a holding call in the endzone on one. Listen we don't expect Matt to play perfect or be Kurt. But at this point he should be able to manage a game and be accurate. This is year 4 for christs sake. You see the Matt Moore's of the league and all you can do is shake your head!
Look at Matt Moore's first game, when he had not been the #1 guy, compared to his last game when he was more in sync with the offense. His played improved significantly.His passer rating went up every game until this last one and that was still 96. I can comment on the game because i saw enough of it to know that it didn't matter to the Cards one bit other than to get some guys to some milestones.

In the last 32 regular season games Leinart has played 1 meaningful game and that was as a last minute replacement. Yet people are surprised that he struggles at times. I guess it's me because i don't get it. If he was the starter and played like that, then i'd be all for getting rid of him. Whisenhunt doesn't seem to concerned.
 
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To sum things up, the Cardinals basically have this year and next year to seriously contend for a Super Bowl. IMO, the pieces are not there for a dominant defense or dominant run-blocking offensive line.

Most troubling thing about Sunday's game wasn't Matt's performance. I was already losing confidence in him after the Tennessee game. The most troubling thing was the way the Cardinals were dominated upfront on both sides of the ball. They simply have to turn that around next Sunday.
 

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The game may be meaningless for many people, even players on this team. But the game is far far from meaningless from Matt Leinart. For him, this is just like playoffs and the SB are for Kurt Warner. He has finally the chance to step in and show who he is and that he has improved, late in the season against a very hot playoff team that plays its best. For him, the game is as meaningful as they can be and that's what counts in the discussion. The excuse for not performing well because this is "exhibition game" is not a good one if you ask me.

Matt Lainart doesn't understand the game well enough. He doesn't make the correct reads. In any system, wheter it is spread or pro set based, this causes big troubles. This has nothing to do with formations, important vs. bad games, or gameplans. Often times he had basic simple reads, options, that even average NFL QB's would consistently make, yet he makes the wrong decision. He works only on plays that are designed to maximize the availability of the first read and that don't involve too much read progression. But you can't run an entire gameplan and offense like that and expect to be good in NFL. And if you do, all QB's in the league would be able to play that position.

He has below average accuracy and not only this game, but that is the reality in all his games. It showed all game long, even on simple screen throws to WR's, he overthrew them etc. . That has nothing to do with anything else than him not performing well. When you are inaccurate as that, you can't be a good NFL QB. You can't even be a backup in that case.

Many mention a weak arm. I don't see that necessary and strong arm is also heavely overrated. I see an inaccurate passer that has weak ability to make good reads and time his passes despite 4 years of practice. Curtis Painter, as a rookie, and 5th round selection, is making better reads and throws more accurate in an even more complicated offense. Not that he is good, but he will be a better QB than Leinart. Weak arm is the worst argument against a QB. Look at Chad Pennington that has everything else than a strong arm. Then look at strong arm QB's like Jamarcus Russel that posses strong arm but nothing else. This is about understanding the offense. It's much more complicated than in college. To time your throws you have to grasp the game and make the right reads. And you have to throw with extreme accuracy. Leinart does both things wrong. Either he makes the right read and makes an innacurate pass. Or he makes the bad read. Or both. In either case, it's a problem. He looks good when defenses gives up the first read as an easy pass. In that case, every NFL QB or backup looks good. That's easy. But once it starts to get bit complicated in reads and progressions and making difficult throws, he just can't be in the game at all.

I don't want him, even as a backup, I think that you need a very good backup QB to make you a complete team. Didn't like him coming out of college, and I don't like him now either. He is not the definition of a tough smart football player. In college, all that works fine, especially on a team that has much more telented players than other teams and coaching staff and playcallers as well. In NFL, it's much more close, and you need a tougher and smarter and more accurate QB to make it work.

I don't happen to respect draft positions at all, so this is why I have labeled him as bust from begining and still am. I don't care if he is selected first overall or in the seventh round and what his college stats are. All that doesn't matter at all. He is a member of this team and the past is the past.

He may end up as an average NFL QB after many many years of investment and similar path as now and many failures. It's simply not worth all that to reach that point. He will never become an elite QB with the mental aspects of the game he now has. I want Cardinals to have an very good QB. Look arround and see which teams end up in playoffs year after year: Those that have great QB's. We have had an alite QB two years in a row and we are in playoffs two years in a row.

If he made better reads and was accurate, everything else was correctable. But as it stands now, his highest potential, if he ever reaches that, is being an average NFL QB, and I even doubt that alot. He may even win the superbowl, Dilfer did it, as long as he plays on a team that is superb at everything else. But you want your QB to be superb, to make it so much easier for others. Warner does that right now, and we need to acquire a new QB this offseason that is that or has that potential. Not only is Leinart far away from that, I don't even see the potential. It's sad that i have to be critical as this on one of our players, but that's how i see it, and progressing too much just because he was a 1st round selection can hurt this team. If he was a 6th round pick, he would have been released long time ago i believe. We would have drafted someone else.
 

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Contract Information for Matt Leinart

8/14/2006: Signed a six-year, $50.8 million contract. The deal contains $14 million guaranteed, including a $7.575 million option bonus in the second year. 2009: $1.11 million, 2010: $2.485 million, 2011: $7.36 million, 2012: Free Agent. Cap charges: $2.6 million (2009), $4 million (2010).

That contract says ouch.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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The game may be meaningless for many people, even players on this team. But the game is far far from meaningless from Matt Leinart. For him, this is just like playoffs and the SB are for Kurt Warner. He has finally the chance to step in and show who he is and that he has improved, late in the season against a very hot playoff team that plays its best. For him, the game is as meaningful as they can be and that's what counts in the discussion. The excuse for not performing well because this is "exhibition game" is not a good one if you ask me.

Matt Lainart doesn't understand the game well enough. He doesn't make the correct reads. In any system, wheter it is spread or pro set based, this causes big troubles. This has nothing to do with formations, important vs. bad games, or gameplans. Often times he had basic simple reads, options, that even average NFL QB's would consistently make, yet he makes the wrong decision. He works only on plays that are designed to maximize the availability of the first read and that don't involve too much read progression. But you can't run an entire gameplan and offense like that and expect to be good in NFL. And if you do, all QB's in the league would be able to play that position.

He has below average accuracy and not only this game, but that is the reality in all his games. It showed all game long, even on simple screen throws to WR's, he overthrew them etc. . That has nothing to do with anything else than him not performing well. When you are inaccurate as that, you can't be a good NFL QB. You can't even be a backup in that case.

Many mention a weak arm. I don't see that necessary and strong arm is also heavely overrated. I see an inaccurate passer that has weak ability to make good reads and time his passes despite 4 years of practice. Curtis Painter, as a rookie, and 5th round selection, is making better reads and throws more accurate in an even more complicated offense. Not that he is good, but he will be a better QB than Leinart. Weak arm is the worst argument against a QB. Look at Chad Pennington that has everything else than a strong arm. Then look at strong arm QB's like Jamarcus Russel that posses strong arm but nothing else. This is about understanding the offense. It's much more complicated than in college. To time your throws you have to grasp the game and make the right reads. And you have to throw with extreme accuracy. Leinart does both things wrong. Either he makes the right read and makes an innacurate pass. Or he makes the bad read. Or both. In either case, it's a problem. He looks good when defenses gives up the first read as an easy pass. In that case, every NFL QB or backup looks good. That's easy. But once it starts to get bit complicated in reads and progressions and making difficult throws, he just can't be in the game at all.

I don't want him, even as a backup, I think that you need a very good backup QB to make you a complete team. Didn't like him coming out of college, and I don't like him now either. He is not the definition of a tough smart football player. In college, all that works fine, especially on a team that has much more telented players than other teams and coaching staff and playcallers as well. In NFL, it's much more close, and you need a tougher and smarter and more accurate QB to make it work.

I don't happen to respect draft positions at all, so this is why I have labeled him as bust from begining and still am. I don't care if he is selected first overall or in the seventh round and what his college stats are. All that doesn't matter at all. He is a member of this team and the past is the past.

He may end up as an average NFL QB after many many years of investment and similar path as now and many failures. It's simply not worth all that to reach that point. He will never become an elite QB with the mental aspects of the game he now has. I want Cardinals to have an very good QB. Look arround and see which teams end up in playoffs year after year: Those that have great QB's. We have had an alite QB two years in a row and we are in playoffs two years in a row.

If he made better reads and was accurate, everything else was correctable. But as it stands now, his highest potential, if he ever reaches that, is being an average NFL QB, and I even doubt that alot. He may even win the superbowl, Dilfer did it, as long as he plays on a team that is superb at everything else. But you want your QB to be superb, to make it so much easier for others. Warner does that right now, and we need to acquire a new QB this offseason that is that or has that potential. Not only is Leinart far away from that, I don't even see the potential. It's sad that i have to be critical as this on one of our players, but that's how i see it, and progressing too much just because he was a 1st round selection can hurt this team. If he was a 6th round pick, he would have been released long time ago i believe. We would have drafted someone else.

Whiz has said that ML is making all the correct pre-snap read and audibles. Reading the defense during the play and getting up to game speed comes with playing time. It's been that way for every other QB in the NFL and will continue to be that way. Why do you think Peyton threw almost 30 INT's his rookie year? Why did Favre constantly battle INT problems early in his career. Why did Aikman go 1-15 and struggle? It's a process and that process has been delayed twice. Once by injury and secondly by the play of Kurt Warner. It may not have been an exhibition game for ML but when it is for the rest of the team and they are playing at exhibition game intensity and effort, it would be hard for anyone to have success. Carson Palmer is one of the best pure passers in the league and he had 1 completion at halftime in a similar situation. Like i said, no conclusions can be drawn on Leinart until he gets actual,meaningful playing time.
 

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Tony Pike will likely never play a meaningful down in the NFL. There may be one out there that i can't think of, but name me one good QB that played out of the spread offense in college. Alex Smith and Vince Young aren't good NFL QB's either so don't name them. There's a reason guys from Texas Tech and Houston lead the college ranks in passing every year but never have a guy make it in the NFL.

Drew Brees played exclusively in the spread offense at Purdue. That is one.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Drew Brees played exclusively in the spread offense at Purdue. That is one.[/quote
i said a good QB :D. I knew there had to be one of them out there. Rivers came to mind but i don't think he played in a true spread offense. He threw alot but it was more of a short passing game offense and not the 4-5 WR spread'em out offense.
 

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Look at Matt Moore's first game, when he had not been the #1 guy, compared to his last game when he was more in sync with the offense. His played improved significantly.His passer rating went up every game until this last one and that was still 96. I can comment on the game because i saw enough of it to know that it didn't matter to the Cards one bit other than to get some guys to some milestones.

In the last 32 regular season games Leinart has played 1 meaningful game and that was as a last minute replacement. Yet people are surprised that he struggles at times. I guess it's me because i don't get it. If he was the starter and played like that, then i'd be all for getting rid of him. Whisenhunt doesn't seem to concerned.

Well said CBus.Too many drama queens on this board want instant gratication=Nintendo Generation.In Leinarts defense he got most of his starts on a bad team his first year.:)
 

Early

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Whiz has said that ML is making all the correct pre-snap read and audibles. Reading the defense during the play and getting up to game speed comes with playing time. It's been that way for every other QB in the NFL and will continue to be that way. Why do you think Peyton threw almost 30 INT's his rookie year? Why did Favre constantly battle INT problems early in his career. Why did Aikman go 1-15 and struggle? It's a process and that process has been delayed twice. Once by injury and secondly by the play of Kurt Warner. It may not have been an exhibition game for ML but when it is for the rest of the team and they are playing at exhibition game intensity and effort, it would be hard for anyone to have success. Carson Palmer is one of the best pure passers in the league and he had 1 completion at halftime in a similar situation. Like i said, no conclusions can be drawn on Leinart until he gets actual,meaningful playing time.

Should he say in front of all he makes bad reads? No, you never say what your players are doing wrong especially when they are so young. That is left over to the private meetings, and you don't say things like that for public. Kurt may get hurt in week one in playoffs, and what then? Let's keep our backups confidence on top, that might be needed.

As for Brett favre, he was doing alot of great reads early. He scored 18 TD/11 INT ration in his first year. Only in his second year he had more INT's than TD's. Year 3 and beyond it's looking like 39 TD's/13INT's numbers...So i don't got where you draw him into discussion. Early on he has shown great read ability that is evident in the number of TD's scored... He had some troubles that he corrected, but not he has shown he can read the game, just not consistently as he can now. However ML has shown not to be able to read at all, and therefore not score at all. Big difference there..

ML has never had a positive TD/INT ratio. Being QB is not only limit your horrible reads. It's also about making great reads and scoring alot of points. ML has never shown the ability to do that. When given chance as starter or as backup. He has far fewer TD's than games he has started in... That speakes volumes. Even with the targets he has. Inexcusable. And you compared him with Brett Favre that from day one has shown the ability to light up the show and score more TD's than INT's.


Peyton Manning, lit it up first year with 26 TD's. From than on he has not a single year with less INT's than TD's. Never put up a year with less than 26 TD's.... And you compare ML with him?? He is in his fourth year now.. He barely scores half of what these guys do.. That is due to reads during the play among many other stuff including accuracy as well. Very important stuff and not something you can correct that easy, if all.

And no i don't agree all players took this as exhibition game, i see no facts on that. Many guys were just as pumped up as for any other game. Larry Fitzgerald didn't even wanted to go out when asked.
 

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Whiz has said that ML is making all the correct pre-snap read and audibles. Reading the defense during the play and getting up to game speed comes with playing time. It's been that way for every other QB in the NFL and will continue to be that way. Why do you think Peyton threw almost 30 INT's his rookie year? Why did Favre constantly battle INT problems early in his career. Why did Aikman go 1-15 and struggle? It's a process and that process has been delayed twice. Once by injury and secondly by the play of Kurt Warner. It may not have been an exhibition game for ML but when it is for the rest of the team and they are playing at exhibition game intensity and effort, it would be hard for anyone to have success. Carson Palmer is one of the best pure passers in the league and he had 1 completion at halftime in a similar situation. Like i said, no conclusions can be drawn on Leinart until he gets actual,meaningful playing time.

Your take on Leinart is absolutely, positively, DEAD ON! The Cardinal's passing offense is completely predicated on timing. How many times have we seen Warner throw a ball that on the surface looks like it's misplaced & may get picked. Then it turns into a big play for us (ex. Boldin's TD against Vikings). Warner knows where Boldin will be, because they practice it over & over & over. Boldin also knows where Warner will deliver the ball. Until Leinart is playing full-time & has all the reps in practice, it's impossible to gauge how he'll do. Do I have concerns? Yes. Whiz needs an accurate arm for this offense to be successful. Has Leinart been accurate? No. But I also believe that with ALL the reps & ALL the playing time, his accuracy would improve dramatically. The Cardinals definitely need to draft a QB, because Warner obviously won't be around too much longer. But that drafted QB will NOT be replacing Leinart as a starter. Like it or not, Leinart will be our next starter. If we go 10-6, he's our guy. If we go 6-10, he'll be replaced. It's that simple. It's Whiz's way.
 

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Point to remember. Leinart was Green's pick. He was a float passer at USC. Long sideline routes.
 

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Cbus cardsfan

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Should he say in front of all he makes bad reads? No, you never say what your players are doing wrong especially when they are so young. That is left over to the private meetings, and you don't say things like that for public. Kurt may get hurt in week one in playoffs, and what then? Let's keep our backups confidence on top, that might be needed.

As for Brett favre, he was doing alot of great reads early. He scored 18 TD/11 INT ration in his first year. Only in his second year he had more INT's than TD's. Year 3 and beyond it's looking like 39 TD's/13INT's numbers...So i don't got where you draw him into discussion. Early on he has shown great read ability that is evident in the number of TD's scored... He had some troubles that he corrected, but not he has shown he can read the game, just not consistently as he can now. However ML has shown not to be able to read at all, and therefore not score at all. Big difference there..

ML has never had a positive TD/INT ratio. Being QB is not only limit your horrible reads. It's also about making great reads and scoring alot of points. ML has never shown the ability to do that. When given chance as starter or as backup. He has far fewer TD's than games he has started in... That speakes volumes. Even with the targets he has. Inexcusable. And you compared him with Brett Favre that from day one has shown the ability to light up the show and score more TD's than INT's.


Peyton Manning, lit it up first year with 26 TD's. From than on he has not a single year with less INT's than TD's. Never put up a year with less than 26 TD's.... And you compare ML with him?? He is in his fourth year now.. He barely scores half of what these guys do.. That is due to reads during the play among many other stuff including accuracy as well. Very important stuff and not something you can correct that easy, if all.

And no i don't agree all players took this as exhibition game, i see no facts on that. Many guys were just as pumped up as for any other game. Larry Fitzgerald didn't even wanted to go out when asked.
The players themselves said there was a lack of intensity when Minny won. Whiz went out of his way to praise Matt for his reads in the Tennessee game and used it as an example of how he's coming along and doing his work. Throwing fake praise on player would likely have more negative effect on the team than doing it to just build confidence. He would have said nothing if it wasn't the case. By making your point, your also making mine. All of those QB's became better the more they played. As for reads, alot of that goes on the WR as well. They read one thing, the QB reads another. Who is right? With more continual playing time they get on the same page.
 

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The players themselves said there was a lack of intensity when Minny won. Whiz went out of his way to praise Matt for his reads in the Tennessee game and used it as an example of how he's coming along and doing his work. Throwing fake praise on player would likely have more negative effect on the team than doing it to just build confidence. He would have said nothing if it wasn't the case. By making your point, your also making mine. All of those QB's became better the more they played. As for reads, alot of that goes on the WR as well. They read one thing, the QB reads another. Who is right? With more continual playing time they get on the same page.

All the players you mention have shown the ability to score many many points from day one. Manning has scored three times as much for comparison early on. That's the difference between a HOF potential player and a backup. Ability to read the game and their accuracy is what allowed these players you mention to do that. Leinart has not shown that. That's the reason he can't score despite having much better weapons. All of these players have shown major improvement in limiting big mistakes already from second year in the league. Again, ML has not shown that, even in his backup role he seems to be performing worse and worse when given the chance. He seems to make more and more mistakes.

I don't see the slightest analogy here. He isn't even a shadow of these great players and yet you have made a comaprison to them. That's fantastic.

As for the excuse on letting it over to other players and saying they are failures for ML looking that bad consistently.. I don't buy that one either. He has had enough of games as a pro and has proved he can't light up the offense and score. Even when KW is in each and every sunday you have one or two guys not performing like they use to do. Either it's a tackle or a WR or whatever. He gets the job done and adjusts. It's regular to have some underperforming a given day. You have to live with that. Yesterday ML had relatively good time to make his throws. KW looks like MVP under harder conditions than that. Saying it's a pro bowler's fault (Woodson), I don't buy that either. Great QB's face these kind of players every week, they know when to stay away from throwing their way and when they can. And if they go their way they make accurate passes. It's especially against these type of players you get punished for inaccuracy.

There is absolutely nothing good in ML's game. Besides his draft status, being a first rounder, there is nothing on gameday to be excited about. Contrary, he is a liability being a backup on this team. Look up what HC's say about backups when they get the chance. Even if they have a horrible game you will always hear something positive being brought up anyway, simply to keep their confidence up. That's very common. Until recently people have made good excuses for Russell as well, people from within the organization. Without nothing good on tapes, they still found a way to keep the optimism up. "Works hard" , "progressing" etc etc. It's empty talk as we all know.

He has been nothing short of horrible as backup this year and could have costed us a playoff spot easy. You see these good backups arround the league that are doing so well, winning gameson their own like starting QB's, scoring TD's , and I just wish we had something like that too. We don't and that's why i think we will get a QB this offseason.
 

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I don't put much stock in this game in any aspect personally. Leinart was awful for sure but it was a tough spot for him especially entering the game on the heels of Breaston idiotcially fielding a punt on the one inch line. It was just a bad day all around. Warner has had similar games this year (CAR and at SF) and in Matt's case it's got to be hard for a player to get better or more consistent without actualy playing on a regular basis.

Leinart played decent enough against the Titans and did a good job simply managing that game when he started and played the whole game but it seems like when he gets thrown in for mop up duty at garbage time he struggles. It's got to be tough for the guy to really makes significant strides of improvement when his playing time is so sporradic. That said I really expect more from him even under tough circumstances and he's got show me more that what he has even if the opportunities he does get are few and far between. What he has shown so far just isn't good enough.
 
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