What present Suns player has the highest upside?

[Errntknght]

At this time, I, too, voted for Brandon Knight. If he doesn't have to play in Bledsoe's shadow.

I think his potential skills at the Point and as team leader outweigh those of Bledsoe.

As long as we have the two of them, why not name Knight the PG and Bledsoe the 2-Guard? Period! If Bledsoe can't fulfill the Shooting Guard role and slide to the Point periodically, why keep him?

That seems to be the most logical approach to the 2-lead Point Guard staffing.

The way I read Jeff's and McD's comments is that they intend to play Eric and Barndon much like they did Eric and Goran. If Ronnie Price is the only other PG, that will indicate they plan to keep one of our two starting PG's on the flroor nearly all the time. It will have to break down something like this: 20 minutes together, each alone 12 minutes and 4 minutes with neither. That leaves 32 minutes of playing time to be split among Booker, Goodwin, Weems and Price or you could look at it as 80 minutes spread among the wings and Price. Thats Price, Goodwin, Booker, PJ, TJ and Weems. If Teletovic is our best 3 pt shooter, which seems rather likely, he may slide down to the wing some, too.

Three point shooting is probably going to be the largest factor in determining PT among the wings which means, as of now, TJ and Goodwin will be squeezed out. If defense figures into it, probably the same two get squeezed. It also means that Knight will be used as a spot up shooter much like Goran was.

Success will probably hinge on our 3pt shooting as a team. Our rebounding and defense should pick up a little thanks to Chandler but our fast break will lose a bit without Goran. There is going to be some dissatisfaction among the players because of PT but I think Jeff will do a better job than last year getting the players to buy into his scheme - it will hard not to improve on that.

What I'm hoping for is a 'watershed' result - either Jeff's plan works well enough to convince us all that its worth building on, or it fails badly and its clear its not a good direction. Can you imagine us all agreeing on something like that?

 

[elindholm]

Its 2 guys who can handle the ball and run the offense.

I haven't seen either of them demonstrate the ability to run an offense. You're right that the labels don't matter much, but what does matter is having someone who can consistently create opportunities for his entire team by serving as the point of attack. By this point, it's pretty clear that Bledsoe doesn't have that, and there's no way to tell about Knight from his very limited time with the Suns so far.

 

[Phrazbit]

I haven't seen either of them demonstrate the ability to run an offense. You're right that the labels don't matter much, but what does matter is having someone who can consistently create opportunities for his entire team by serving as the point of attack. By this point, it's pretty clear that Bledsoe doesn't have that, and there's no way to tell about Knight from his very limited time with the Suns so far.

I'm talking about the philosophy, one which a ton of teams employ, not the Suns current application of it, which is an obvious question-mark.

But I do think you're selling Bledsoe short. He demonstrated that he did have that ability to be part of a highly efficient offense as a primary ball handler the previous year on a roster with better fitting parts than last season's.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Archie has potential. He does have elite quickness and he's excellent at drawing contact something the commentators in SL mentioned plenty as a reason to why they think he will eventually be good.

Right now, I think he just needs to play a little more in control and slow the game down some. Continuing to improving on his jumper and not gambling on defense or losing focus defensively should do him plenty good as well going forward. As for Bledsoe, agreed.

How many times are you going to repeat "I think Archie has potential" before you realize it's not true?

 

[3rdside]

http://www.brewhoop.com/2014/7/24/5790868/brandon-knight-point-guard-shooting-guard

Interesting article about knight and his playing partners in Milwaukee. As it turns out, knight is at his best with a defensive minded guard along side him...step on up Eric Bledsoe.


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[3rdside]

And Brandon knight for that matter


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[Covert Rain]

Success will probably hinge on our 3pt shooting as a team. Our rebounding and defense should pick up a little thanks to Chandler but our fast break will lose a bit without Goran. There is going to be some dissatisfaction among the players because of PT but I think Jeff will do a better job than last year getting the players to buy into his scheme - it will hard not to improve on that.

What I'm hoping for is a 'watershed' result - either Jeff's plan works well enough to convince us all that its worth building on, or it fails badly and its clear its not a good direction. Can you imagine us all agreeing on something like that?

Which is a troubling proposition no matter how good your shooters are. Depending on the 3 is always a feast or famine scenario.

 

[sunsfan88]

How many times are you going to repeat "I think Archie has potential" before you realize it's not true?

When are you gonna realize that he's 20 years old and that he was a raw prospect coming into the NBA to begin with?

 

[Errntknght]

Which is a troubling proposition no matter how good your shooters are. Depending on the 3 is always a feast or famine scenario.

Its becoming the norm.

When Kevin McHale was being interviewed during SL, he volunteered the ststement that players do not practice shooting the 3 enough. He then said that they have their guys shooting a couple hundred a day and recording the results. The interviewer didn't follow up on it but I understood him to mean they had all players doing it. Not too surprising that his team led the league in 3 point attempts by a large margin - 5.2 more per game than the second ranking team. We were 10th, 7.7 behind them.

Houston doesn't shoot them because they are super good at it - they're in the middle of the pack ranked by 3 pt %. We're 20th in that ranking so we need a major improvement to succeed.

 

[Chaplin]

When are you gonna realize that he's 20 years old and that he was a raw prospect coming into the NBA to begin with?

He's also a shooting guard, which is a position that is much easier to get good talent in than, say, power forward. So if Booker is better than Archie by next summer, will you be repeating the same tired statement?

Archie has shown very little improvement in the two years he's been on the team. That is a red flag, 20 or no.

 

[Phrazbit]

He's also a shooting guard, which is a position that is much easier to get good talent in than, say, power forward. So if Booker is better than Archie by next summer, will you be repeating the same tired statement?

Archie has shown very little improvement in the two years he's been on the team. That is a red flag, 20 or no.

I expect that Booker is probably better than Goodwin right now, or, at least with his skill set, more useful.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's also a shooting guard, which is a position that is much easier to get good talent in than, say, power forward. So if Booker is better than Archie by next summer, will you be repeating the same tired statement?

Archie has shown very little improvement in the two years he's been on the team. That is a red flag, 20 or no.

What is your point of this statement? Is there an offer from the Pelicans for Anthony Davis for Archie Goodwin or something? I think its obvious that good bigs are harder to get than good guards, as Suns fans we should especially know.

See unlike you, I'm not bidding Booker and Goodwin against each other. And based on what Hornacek said during the summer league interview, he isn't either. Goodwin was a project when we drafted him, Booker is much more NBA ready than him so no I'm not gonna say "Yea Goodwin sucks since Booker is good". You said next summer, but forget that, I think Booker may very well be better than Goodwin this season. That doesn't change my view on Goodwin.

I know your trying to turn this into a Booker vs Goodwin thing but I'm not gonna fall for your bait.

What the heck does that even mean anyway? Its like me liking vanilla ice cream and one time I try chocolate ice cream and I like that, but doesn't mean I'm not gonna say "Oh yea I hate vanilla now".

The coaches themselves say that Archie has shown improvement in practice and I expect that to translate over to the games eventually. If not, oh well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Its becoming the norm.

When Kevin McHale was being interviewed during SL, he volunteered the ststement that players do not practice shooting the 3 enough. He then said that they have their guys shooting a couple hundred a day and recording the results. The interviewer didn't follow up on it but I understood him to mean they had all players doing it. Not too surprising that his team led the league in 3 point attempts by a large margin - 5.2 more per game than the second ranking team. We were 10th, 7.7 behind them.

Houston doesn't shoot them because they are super good at it - they're in the middle of the pack ranked by 3 pt %. We're 20th in that ranking so we need a major improvement to succeed.

Shore up the front court and give me high percentage shot in a close game over a 3 any day of the week.

 

[95pro]

Shore up the front court and give me high percentage shot in a close game over a 3 any day of the week.

this is why i picked Warren out of the bunch. He has the most potential to get to the rim and score in crunch time than any of those listed. You could say i picked him since he could be the most clutch.

 

[Errntknght]

Shore up the front court and give me high percentage shot in a close game over a 3 any day of the week.

The Suns offense needs to have good three point shooting - its what keeps opponents from congesting the middle of the floor, thus giving our drives to the basket a better chance of succeeding. You know that is a major part of offense, right? The biggest benefit comes if the 3pt shooter can drag one of the opps rim protectors out to the arc but it also helps if our perimeter players shoot them well, as it helps keep their defenders from dropping off to double team in the paint. (Zone busters we used to call them, remember.)

Personally, I like having a deadly mid-range shooter like Grant Hill but those shots come mostly off set plays, which Jeff eschews. TJ is good from mid-range but he's an opportunistic scorer so he needs someone paying attention so as to feed him the ball when its needed. That doesn't work well when your guards are always busy running pick & pop/rolls or iso's. A first rate PG can multi-task well enough to do both but we're avoiding such players.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Quality three point shooting is essential for success in today's NBA. You can shoot a much lower percentage and be successful still. It's like gaining extra possessions. A good 3 point shot over a 2 is as valuable as a steal.

 

[slinslin]

Which is a troubling proposition no matter how good your shooters are. Depending on the 3 is always a feast or famine scenario.

As is any shot in basketball, it either goes in or it does not.

The 3 pt shot is one of the most efficient and getting point blank layups in the halfcourt is an exception.

Shooting 40% from 3 is equivalent to shooting 60% from the 2. Give me a list of players who actually manage to shoot at least 60% within the arc.

 

[Chaplin]

What is your point of this statement? Is there an offer from the Pelicans for Anthony Davis for Archie Goodwin or something? I think its obvious that good bigs are harder to get than good guards, as Suns fans we should especially know.

See unlike you, I'm not bidding Booker and Goodwin against each other. And based on what Hornacek said during the summer league interview, he isn't either. Goodwin was a project when we drafted him, Booker is much more NBA ready than him so no I'm not gonna say "Yea Goodwin sucks since Booker is good". You said next summer, but forget that, I think Booker may very well be better than Goodwin this season. That doesn't change my view on Goodwin.

I know your trying to turn this into a Booker vs Goodwin thing but I'm not gonna fall for your bait.

What the heck does that even mean anyway? Its like me liking vanilla ice cream and one time I try chocolate ice cream and I like that, but doesn't mean I'm not gonna say "Oh yea I hate vanilla now".

The coaches themselves say that Archie has shown improvement in practice and I expect that to translate over to the games eventually. If not, oh well.

You are completely interpreting this wrong. 2 years for a shooting guard to improve is a lot of time in the NBA. Archie has barely improved at all, what do you expect the coaches to say? "Archie Goodwin is not a good player and is worthless to us." OF COURSE they are not going to say that.

I'm pointing out the fact that you give him a free pass when there will be better options at SG who will improve much faster (for example, Booker). Athletic shooting guards who can't shoot are a dime a dozen. Nothing so far has shown that Archie is anything more than that.

And yes, I AM pitting Booker and Goodwin against each other. They play the same position and are both young. Booker, who hasn't played a minute in the NBA, right now looks at least equal with Goodwin in skill level. That is a huge red flag against Archie, since he's had 2 years to improve. But people like you want to keep letting him try to prove himself. That's great if this was a rec league at the local Y, but in the NBA, he's almost to the point where all he's doing is wasting a roster spot.

I REALLY hope Archie shows something this year, otherwise, he should and will be gone next summer. Even if you claim once again, that his potential is still worth holding onto.

 

[Covert Rain]

Shooting 40% from 3 is equivalent to shooting 60% from the 2.

Sure if your assuming that throughout the game that % is constant. However, that's not how it works. There is going to be hot and cold streaks that make up a % by the end of the game. In a tight game when defenses lock down, there is no way I would prefer a contested 3 point shot over a contested shot in the lane or layup.

For example, with a team like the Spurs or anybody else that has a legit low post or mid-range threat, you almost always see them prefer to take the high percentage shots when the game is on the line.

I agree though the 3 point shot is an important part of the game and you have to be a legit threat from there to create balance and keep teams honest. My point is that I don't want the Suns to be a team that in every close game chucks up a 3 to win it. I would prefer we have some good low post options to taker higher percentage shots when needed.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sure if your assuming that throughout the game that % is constant. However, that's not how it works. There is going to be hot and cold streaks that make up a % by the end of the game. In a tight game when defenses lock down, there is no way I would prefer a contested 3 point shot over a contested shot in the lane or layup.

For example, with a team like the Spurs or anybody else that has a legit low post or mid-range threat, you almost always see them prefer to take the high percentage shots when the game is on the line.

I agree though the 3 point shot is an important part of the game and you have to be a legit threat from there to create balance and keep teams honest. My point is that I don't want the Suns to be a team that in every close game chucks up a 3 to win it. I would prefer we have some good low post options to taker higher percentage shots when needed.

I don't think this is true anymore, when the game is on the line you see teams like the Spurs trying to create looks from three. I'm not talking about contest threes like you mentioned, they are running an offense designed to create open three-point shots.

It's no longer "you live by the three or die by the three", it's now "you live by the three or you die."

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think this is true anymore, when the game is on the line you see teams like the Spurs trying to create looks from three. I'm not talking about contest threes like you mentioned, they are running an offense designed to create open three-point shots.

It's no longer "you live by the three or die by the three", it's now "you live by the three or you die."

I would love to see some stats on this. It just seems to be more teams opt for driving in the lane for an easy shot and trying to get to the basket versus taking a riskier 3 point shot when the game is on the line. Not that it doesn't happen, especially if a guy is hot. It would be interesting to see. I might try and see if I can dig up some stats somewhere if they exist.

 

[Phrazbit]

I would love to see some stats on this. It just seems to be more teams opt for driving in the lane for an easy shot and trying to get to the basket versus taking a riskier 3 point shot when the game is on the line. Not that it doesn't happen, especially if a guy is hot. It would be interesting to see. I might try and see if I can dig up some stats somewhere if they exist.

Unfortunately I cannot think of a way to accurately sort stats on this because any crunch time 3pt stats are going to be ridiculously skewed by the amount of 3s teams have to shoot if they're behind late.

But I would say watch next year. I would absolutely count the Warriors and Spurs as teams that run offenses that favor creating looks from 3 over grinding interior baskets, late in the game or otherwise.

 

[Covert Rain]

Unfortunately I cannot think of a way to accurately sort stats on this because any crunch time 3pt stats are going to be ridiculously skewed by the amount of 3s teams have to shoot if they're behind late.

But I would say watch next year. I would absolutely count the Warriors and Spurs as teams that run offenses that favor creating looks from 3 over grinding interior baskets, late in the game or otherwise.

That might require me watching the Spurs more than I really want to.

 

[Chaz]

You are completely interpreting this wrong. 2 years for a shooting guard to improve is a lot of time in the NBA. Archie has barely improved at all, what do you expect the coaches to say? "Archie Goodwin is not a good player and is worthless to us." OF COURSE they are not going to say that.

I'm pointing out the fact that you give him a free pass when there will be better options at SG who will improve much faster (for example, Booker). Athletic shooting guards who can't shoot are a dime a dozen. Nothing so far has shown that Archie is anything more than that.

And yes, I AM pitting Booker and Goodwin against each other. They play the same position and are both young. Booker, who hasn't played a minute in the NBA, right now looks at least equal with Goodwin in skill level. That is a huge red flag against Archie, since he's had 2 years to improve. But people like you want to keep letting him try to prove himself. That's great if this was a rec league at the local Y, but in the NBA, he's almost to the point where all he's doing is wasting a roster spot.

I REALLY hope Archie shows something this year, otherwise, he should and will be gone next summer. Even if you claim once again, that his potential is still worth holding onto.

You are understating his improvement. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there.

He could show a lot of improvement but still not be good enough to earn a lot of time yet. To the casual observer that would appear as though he hasn't improved much at all.

I guess we will see. I think he is here until they have to decide on the 5th year option which means he will be here through the 2016-2017 season. You don't draft a project at 29 and then give up before his rookie deal is even up unless there is a personality problem, legal, or work ethic issue.

 

[Phrazbit]

That might require me watching the Spurs more than I really want to.

Truth!