What present Suns player has the highest upside?

[Errntknght]

What its going to take to get on the floor as a wing for the Suns is a reliable three point shot or reliable defense - and preferably both. An exception to that would be someone who could take his man in isolation like Archie and had TJ's mid-range game.

In a different offense TJ could shine as he is but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen here, now.

 

[sunsfan88]

What its going to take to get on the floor as a wing for the Suns is a reliable three point shot or reliable defense - and preferably both. An exception to that would be someone who could take his man in isolation like Archie and had TJ's mid-range game.

In a different offense TJ could shine as he is but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen here, now.

Our best shooting SF right now is Tucker....that's not a good thing. He's decent at the corner 3 (he still bricks many wide open looks) and he's mediocre or worse from all other angles.

 

[Chaplin]

Your acting as if I'm saying that Goodwin should get more minutes than Booker or start over Booker or something. Booker is an NBA ready prospect, Goodwin was a project when drafted, doesn't matter if he's been in the NBA for 2 years, he's still a project and he has all of his rookie contract to prove to the Suns if he's worth it or not. There's a reason Booker was drafted in the lottery while Goodwin almost slipped to the 2nd round.

I'm not gonna get into your Booker vs Goodwin bait because unlike you, I want to see them both succeed. I want to see Bledsoe and Knight succeed too. Why don't you talk about Bledsoe is way better than Knight too then? Or vice versa?

And as for the coaches saying that about Goodwin, they say that about him without being asked about him. Media will ask a question like who has been working out the most and training the hardest and they say Goodwin most of the time. Even last season when the Morris twins supposedly lived at the Suns practice facility over summer, Hornacek and McD both said Goodwin was the Suns player who put the most time in.

And you said their just saying that to save face, well when Goodwin complained about playing time this last season, Suns could have easily dumped him for a 2nd rd pick or something if they wanted to but McD came to his defense and said they like him, they want him and that he's not going anywhere. Why do all that then?

It's interesting that my hope for Goodwin bugs you so much. But whether you like it or not, I'll still have hope for him until he's perhaps off this team.

You're making this a Booker vs. Goodwin battle, when it is not. It is Goodwin vs. potentially better players that don't take more than 2 years to develop into an NBA-level player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I really don't get where all the Warren loves comes from.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I say TJ because he can simply drain the mid range shot and can shoot himself free from all sorts of crazy positions/angles. He has great body control and can score at will. Come playoffs, if we ever get there, I see Warren being able to do what he does in the playoffs better then any of these other guys, except with Booker a 3 point shooter can obviously get off shots, you just can't always live by the 3.

That's not to take anything away from anyone else. Booker looked fantastic, Len has a chance to be a good to great defensive center, Goodwin can drive and get to the line.

What I like the most is that all of these guys can each do (or pretty dang near it already) something better then many guys in the league.

Overall it's a good position to be in. I really like this young core. We don't have a known superstar, and probably don't have one on the roster in any capacity, but we got some really good young players imo.

He can?

I really don't get where all the Warren loves comes from.

DITTO!!

 

[95pro]

I really don't get where all the Warren loves comes from.

His offensive game is the best out of Len, Goodwin, and Booker. I include booker as we don't fully know what he'll bring for sure, looks promising though. Out of all of the above, no one has particularly great to good defense.

 

[82CardsGrad]

His offensive game is the best out of Len, Goodwin, and Booker. I include booker as we don't fully know what he'll bring for sure, looks promising though. Out of all of the above, no one has particularly great to good defense.

You can't compare Warren to a guy who hasn't played a game in the NBA yet...

And, saying Warren's offense is better than Len and Goodwin isn't saying much at all.
Warren has a TON to prove... To date, he's shown limited offensive production capability, with virtually no mid to outside game. Which is all the more troubling as if he is solely relying on an inside game, he's undersized and will be severely limited.

 

[Cheesebeef]

His offensive game is the best out of Len, Goodwin, and Booker. I include booker as we don't fully know what he'll bring for sure, looks promising though. Out of all of the above, no one has particularly great to good defense.

I just don't know how you can make that judgement when he hasn't done anything in the league at this point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You can't compare Warren to a guy who hasn't played a game in the NBA yet...

And, saying Warren's offense is better than Len and Goodwin isn't saying much at all.
Warren has a TON to prove... To date, he's shown limited offensive production capability, with virtually no mid to outside game. Which is all the more troubling as if he is solely relying on an inside game, he's undersized and will be severely limited.

he's not only undersized, but he's not very athletic as well, unfortunately.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think TJ Warren is some budding star but I think the dude is going to have a legit career. He can score. So far its more of an old school SF's game, but within 15 feet the guy is a legit offensive weapon and near the hoop he is deadly. Unfortunately he has not shown the ability to do anything else as of yet, the near total lack of rebounding is especially concerning.

But I think he will develop a 3pt shot. He has displayed a very soft touch, he has good hands and he does not take stupid shots. His ability to finish around the basket is other-worldly. That skill was brought up in the Archie Goodwin debate (he stinks around the hoop) but TJ is excellent at finishing near the rim.

This is an article mentioning his interior scoring prowess pre-draft.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/n...for-the-second-tier-of-first-round-prospects/

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Once a guy is in the NBA I typically scoff at bringing up their college numbers to claim some NBA level prowess but TJ Warren's scoring ability has translated.

And here is his shot chart from last season:

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=203933

A hair under 70% on the interior in the NBA, and with a pretty big chunk of shot attempts there given his PT. That is a legitimate elite skill. I know the word "elite" gets tossed around loosely those numbers for Warren on the interior it fits the bill.

So far he is not well rounded enough as a player to warrant much hyperbole about his long term outlook, but this isn't a guy who will be in Europe in a few years or someone we're going to consider dumping to save salary. IMO he will be a legit NBA rotation player and if he can add another dimension or two to his game (serviceable defense... decent outside shooting) he will become a quality starter.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don't think TJ Warren is some budding star but I think the dude is going to have a legit career. He can score. So far its more of an old school SF's game, but within 15 feet the guy is a legit offensive weapon and near the hoop he is deadly. Unfortunately he has not shown the ability to do anything else as of yet, the near total lack of rebounding is especially concerning.

But I think he will develop a 3pt shot. He has displayed a very soft touch, he has good hands and he does not take stupid shots. His ability to finish around the basket is other-worldly. That skill was brought up in the Archie Goodwin debate (he stinks around the hoop) but TJ is excellent at finishing near the rim.

This is an article mentioning his interior scoring prowess pre-draft.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/n...for-the-second-tier-of-first-round-prospects/

You must be registered for see images

Once a guy is in the NBA I typically scoff at bringing up their college numbers to claim some NBA level prowess but TJ Warren's scoring ability has translated.

And here is his shot chart from last season:

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=203933

A hair under 70% on the interior in the NBA, and with a pretty big chunk of shot attempts there given his PT. That is a legitimate elite skill. I know the word "elite" those numbers for Warren on the interior it fits the bill.

So far he is not well rounded enough as a player to warrant much hyperbole about his long term outlook, but this isn't a guy who will be in Europe in a few years or someone we're going to consider dumping to save salary. IMO he will be a legit NBA rotation player and if he can add another dimension or two to his game (serviceable defense... decent outside shooting) he will become a quality starter.

Sorry... All I see there is a guy who prefers to shoot from within the paint. Which, hey - if you're a 6'9" or taller power guy, cool! But that ain't TJ.
I just don't see him being a consistent, 30 minute or more player who can consistently score, unless he develops a legit shot from outside the paint.

 

[SirStefan32]

What I see is someone who understands the game. Efficiency, angles, moving without the ball. Sure, it would be nice if he could develop a solid jump shot, but it's not like he shoots like Shaq from outside 10 feet.

 

[82CardsGrad]

What I see is someone who understands the game. Efficiency, angles, moving without the ball. Sure, it would be nice if he could develop a solid jump shot, but it's not like he shoots like Shaq from outside 10 feet.

I think there is some middle ground between our views...

 

[elindholm]

FYI that puts Bledsoe at #57 amongst guards, but 58-60 are Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, and Goran Dragic (Phoenix Suns).

So in other words, he's a borderline All-Star?

 

[95pro]

You can't compare Warren to a guy who hasn't played a game in the NBA yet...

And, saying Warren's offense is better than Len and Goodwin isn't saying much at all.
Warren has a TON to prove... To date, he's shown limited offensive production capability, with virtually no mid to outside game. Which is all the more troubling as if he is solely relying on an inside game, he's undersized and will be severely limited.

I just don't know how you can make that judgement when he hasn't done anything in the league at this point.

my bad guys.

That's what i meant to infer. I was busy at work and typing on my phone.

meant to say that although i included Booker, he's still unproven.

 

[Sunburn]

Sorry... All I see there is a guy who prefers to shoot from within the paint. Which, hey - if you're a 6'9" or taller power guy, cool! But that ain't TJ.
I just don't see him being a consistent, 30 minute or more player who can consistently score, unless he develops a legit shot from outside the paint.

I get what you're saying. I think you're getting caught up in height though. The important thing is shooting percentage. If the guy consistently shoots a high percentage at close range, his height doesn't matter. Take Charles Barkley, for example.

 

[95pro]

Sorry... All I see there is a guy who prefers to shoot from within the paint. Which, hey - if you're a 6'9" or taller power guy, cool! But that ain't TJ.
I just don't see him being a consistent, 30 minute or more player who can consistently score, unless he develops a legit shot from outside the paint.

I was surprised how tall and big he was on the court. His first step is really quick too.

Even if he doesn't get 30min he'll score efficiently.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sorry... All I see there is a guy who prefers to shoot from within the paint. Which, hey - if you're a 6'9" or taller power guy, cool! But that ain't TJ.
I just don't see him being a consistent, 30 minute or more player who can consistently score, unless he develops a legit shot from outside the paint.

There is preferring to shoot from within the paint and there is being a nearly unstoppable once you get the ball down there. A 70% shooting stat from in there is incredible, and I don't think its all that flukey given what he did in college.

Adding a 3pt shot to his talents would be fantastic, but as is, the guy is a legit weapon on offense. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about his ability as a defender and his no show in rebounding stats than him being a viable offensive tool.

And really, I don't care that he is 6'8", that is plenty big for a SF and his height or lack there of clearly does not hinder him on the interior.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There is preferring to shoot from within the paint and there is being a nearly unstoppable once you get the ball down there. A 70% shooting stat from in there is incredible, and I don't think its all that flukey given what he did in college.

Adding a 3pt shot to his talents would be fantastic, but as is, the guy is a legit weapon on offense. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about his ability as a defender and his no show in rebounding stats than him being a viable offensive tool.

And really, I don't care that he is 6'8", that is plenty big for a SF and his height or lack there of clearly does not hinder him on the interior.

Last season, he avg'd 15 mins per game. He took 5 shots per game and made nearly 3 per game with nearly all of those shots coming from inside the paint. I seriously don't see how anyone can take that limited body of work and extrapolate it into something worth getting exciting about.
I have serious doubts about his ability to score if/when playing more mins per game.
I could be/hope I'm wrong! But for now, I think people need to slam on the brakes when it comes to TJ...

 

[SirStefan32]

Last season, he avg'd 15 mins per game. He took 5 shots per game and made nearly 3 per game with nearly all of those shots coming from inside the paint. I seriously don't see how anyone can take that limited body of work and extrapolate it into something worth getting exciting about.
I have serious doubts about his ability to score if/when playing more mins per game.
I could be/hope I'm wrong! But for now, I think people need to slam on the brakes when it comes to TJ...

Kid passes the eye test. He understands how to get to the hoop, how to use angles to his advantage, how to move without the ball in order to get the ball, and how to get a shot off. Those are instincts that you can't teach. You can't teach basketball IQ, and this kid just has a very high basketball IQ.

We are talking about potential, and this kid has it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Kid passes the eye test. He understands how to get to the hoop, how to use angles to his advantage, how to move without the ball in order to get the ball, and how to get a shot off. Those are instincts that you can't teach. You can't teach basketball IQ, and this kid just has a very high basketball IQ.



We are talking about potential, and this kid has it.

Like I said, I could be/hope I'm wrong about TJ. And I don't doubt his IQ at all. My main concern is that he doesn't possess a legit outside game. And for a smallish forward, he won't become a meaningful contributor if his only option is shooting from the paint.

 

[Chaplin]

Last season, he avg'd 15 mins per game. He took 5 shots per game and made nearly 3 per game with nearly all of those shots coming from inside the paint. I seriously don't see how anyone can take that limited body of work and extrapolate it into something worth getting exciting about.
I have serious doubts about his ability to score if/when playing more mins per game.
I could be/hope I'm wrong! But for now, I think people need to slam on the brakes when it comes to TJ...

What do you think of Archie Goodwin?

 

[82CardsGrad]

What do you think of Archie Goodwin?

I think Archie is incredibly gifted - physically. But unless he develops a legit outside game/threat, his production will be limited...
Yes, that sounds familiar doesn't it...

 

[Phrazbit]

Last season, he avg'd 15 mins per game. He took 5 shots per game and made nearly 3 per game with nearly all of those shots coming from inside the paint. I seriously don't see how anyone can take that limited body of work and extrapolate it into something worth getting exciting about.
I have serious doubts about his ability to score if/when playing more mins per game.
I could be/hope I'm wrong! But for now, I think people need to slam on the brakes when it comes to TJ...

I don't see why people need to slam the brakes, it's not like a lot of hyperbole is being thrown around. I'm saying he will be solid rotation player and if he adds a dimension or 2 he can be a good starter. no one is claiming the guy will be a star.
Also, the thing you see guys most frequently add to their game during their career is outside shooting; it is not one of those things that guys either have or they don't.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Archie is incredibly gifted - physically. But unless he develops a legit outside game/threat, his production will be limited...
Yes, that sounds familiar doesn't it...

The reason I asked is only because several people here are doing the exact same thing with Goodwin that you are preaching against with Warren. Wanted to see where you fell on that scale.