What QB Will We Draft in 1st Round?

[kerouac9]

My point wasn't to target "elite" QBs, but more to establish a list of QBs who overcome their teams flaws on a consistent basis.

In a 32-team league, calling the Top 3 "elite" is still the Top 10%. I'm not comfortable calling any more than 3 QBs elite and have the term continue to carry value. Right now, the truly elite NFL QBs are probably Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

In a 32-team league, calling the Top 3 "elite" is still the Top 10%. I'm not comfortable calling any more than 3 QBs elite and have the term continue to carry value. Right now, the truly elite NFL QBs are probably Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning.

 

[Mulli]

In a 32-team league, calling the Top 3 "elite" is still the Top 10%. I'm not comfortable calling any more than 3 QBs elite and have the term continue to carry value. Right now, the truly elite NFL QBs are probably Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning.

Leaving Brady and Brees out of the conversation but including Peyton Manning?

Hmmph.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is always interesting when people start talking about franchise and elite QBs because it is really difficult to define what elevates QBs into that classification.

Look, all I care about in a QB is their ability to minimize their teams flaws, their ability to elevate the level of play of their teammates, their ability to take a game over when needed, their physical ability to do execute every aspect of the QB position, and their work ethic. That is all I care about because while I believe QBs get you to the playoffs, TEAMS win Super Bowls.

As for Tom Brady dropping in the draft or Drew Brees, it happened over 10 years ago and is now irrelevant. The game has changed, a lot. There is nothing more important than drafting or aquiring an top 1/3 QB because they keep your team and coaching staff relatively stable. An Elite QB gives your franchise time to build a solid team around them for a Super Bowl run. Is Eli Manning the most talented QB in the NFL? No. But he can minimize his team's issues on the offensive line, he can get the most out of Victor Cruz, he can take over games, make all the throws, and he studies so much that no situation is too big for him. That is what I want and we will have to trade up to ensure we get it in the draft.

 

[slinslin]

In a 32-team league, calling the Top 3 "elite" is still the Top 10%. I'm not comfortable calling any more than 3 QBs elite and have the term continue to carry value. Right now, the truly elite NFL QBs are probably Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning.

Uh Brady, Brees and Roethlisberger are not elite quarterbacks?

Btw Aaron Rodgers is the most sacked QB after Kevin Kolb but is still first in QBR and 16-4 TD/INT so even if his OLINE is not as bad as the Cards it is still very bad but having a great QB it obviously does not matter as much.

The Cards offense has much more problems than just the offensive line. Fixing the offensive line won't fix all the other holes like below average QB play, below average running game and below average tight end threats.
If all positions of your teams offense besides maybe widereceiver are below average your offense will suck and amplifies the offensive line woes clearly. The cards offense is just too predictable and simple that puts even more pressure on the offensive line.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It is always interesting when people start talking about franchise and elite QBs because it is really difficult to define what elevates QBs into that classification.

Look, all I care about in a QB is their ability to minimize their teams flaws, their ability to elevate the level of play of their teammates, their ability to take a game over when needed, their physical ability to do execute every aspect of the QB position, and their work ethic. That is all I care about because while I believe QBs get you to the playoffs, TEAMS win Super Bowls.

As for Tom Brady dropping in the draft or Drew Brees, it happened over 10 years ago and is not irrealevant. The game has changed, a lot. There is nothing more important than drafting or aquiring an top 1/3 QB because they keep your team and coaching staff relatively stable. An Elite QB gives your franchise time to build a solid team around them for a Super Bowl run. Is Eli Manning the most talented QB in the NFL? No. But he can minimize his team's issues on the offensive line, he can get the most out of Victor Cruz, he can take over games, make all the throws, and he studies so much that no situation is too big for him. That is what I want and we will have to trade up to ensure we get it in the draft.

(I also think you meant irrelevant, or not relevant)

 

[Chopper0080]

(I also think you meant irrelevant, or not relevant)

Sure did.

 

[Chopper0080]

In a 32-team league, calling the Top 3 "elite" is still the Top 10%. I'm not comfortable calling any more than 3 QBs elite and have the term continue to carry value. Right now, the truly elite NFL QBs are probably Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning.

and I break up QBs into three tiers.

Top 10.

Middle 12.

Bottom 10.

and honestly, their are so many quality QBs in the NFL right now, it is tough to define a concrete top 10.

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger
Matthew Stafford
Tony Romo

But that leaves out Dalton, Rivers, RGIII & Luck who all meet my expectations of a top QB.

It is just tough. Again, in some way, you are correct when you say "franchise QBs" are overrated because all you need is a QB who can get you to the playoffs and can elevate his team enough to win the Super Bowl.

 

[kerouac9]

Uh Brady, Brees and Roethlisberger are not elite quarterbacks?

Btw Aaron Rodgers is the most sacked QB after Kevin Kolb but is still first in QBR and 16-4 TD/INT so even if his OLINE is not as bad as the Cards it is still very bad but having a great QB it obviously does not matter as much.

The Cards offense has much more problems than just the offensive line. Fixing the offensive line won't fix all the other holes like below average QB play, below average running game and below average tight end threats.

Tom Brady, who was beaten by Seattle and Arizona? Nope.
Drew Brees, who was beaten by Cam Newton and Matt Cassel and had an assist from the officials to get his team's only win at home against San Diego? Uh-uh.
Ben Roethlisberger, who is looking up at Brandon Wheeden on the NFL passing list? No.

Just goes to show how hard it is to be a truly elite NFL quarterback, huh? Peyton Manning, despite having a noodle arm, is 2nd in the league in QB rating and averaging 8.0 YPA. #1 QB in rating? Aaron Rodgers.

 

[slinslin]

and I break up QBs into three tiers.

Top 10.

Middle 12.

Bottom 10.

and honestly, their are so many quality QBs in the NFL right now, it is tough to define a concrete top 10.

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger
Matthew Stafford
Tony Romo

But that leaves out Dalton, Rivers, RGIII & Luck who all meet my expectations of a top QB.

It is just tough. Again, in some way, you are correct when you say "franchise QBs" are overrated because all you need is a QB who can get you to the playoffs and can elevate his team enough to win the Super Bowl.

RGIII is probably elite right now with his ability to run plus a QB rating in the top 3 right now.

Yeah he has only 5 TDs right now but also rushed for 6 TDs on his own, has just 2 interceptions and completed over 70% of his passes.

But what would make Romo, Stafford, Dalton, Rivers or Luck top QBs right now?

Rivers 10 TD 9 Int 66%comp
Stafford 4 TD 5 Int 62%comp
Dalton 12 TD 9 Int 66%comp
Romo 7 TD 9 Int 67%comp
Luck 7 TD 7 Int 53%comp

I don't think you could possibly make a case for them over the probably current established top 6 Rodgers, Manning, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees and then the next four probably Ryan, Griffin, Flacco and Schaub.

 

[Mulli]

Tom Brady, who was beaten by Seattle and Arizona? Nope.
Drew Brees, who was beaten by Cam Newton and Matt Cassel and had an assist from the officials to get his team's only win at home against San Diego? Uh-uh.
Ben Roethlisberger, who is looking up at Brandon Wheeden on the NFL passing list? No.

Just goes to show how hard it is to be a truly elite NFL quarterback, huh? Peyton Manning, despite having a noodle arm, is 2nd in the league in QB rating and averaging 8.0 YPA. #1 QB in rating? Aaron Rodgers.

You are silly. Eli lost to the iffy Cowboys and Eagles. And has a lower rating than Brady.

 

[kerouac9]

and I break up QBs into three tiers.

Top 10.

Middle 12.

Bottom 10.

and honestly, their are so many quality QBs in the NFL right now, it is tough to define a concrete top 10.

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger
Matthew Stafford
Tony Romo

But that leaves out Dalton, Rivers, RGIII & Luck who all meet my expectations of a top QB.

It is just tough. Again, in some way, you are correct when you say "franchise QBs" are overrated because all you need is a QB who can get you to the playoffs and can elevate his team enough to win the Super Bowl.

See... I think it's fair to leave out first- and even some second-year QBs as just too difficult to gauge from week to week. Is Matt Stafford really a Top 10 QB right now? Is Drew Brees? Both of those guys (and Brady too) are so reliant on our history with them to justify them as top QBs.

I'm not immune. If you asked me who the Top 10 QBs are, I'd probably give you Phil Rivers, and he might not be that good anymore.

I'd rather have Jay Cutler than Tony Romo.

All you need is a top 12 QB and you have as good a chance as anyone of making the Super Bowl.

 

[slinslin]

Tom Brady, who was beaten by Seattle and Arizona? Nope.
Drew Brees, who was beaten by Cam Newton and Matt Cassel and had an assist from the officials to get his team's only win at home against San Diego? Uh-uh.
Ben Roethlisberger, who is looking up at Brandon Wheeden on the NFL passing list? No.

Just goes to show how hard it is to be a truly elite NFL quarterback, huh? Peyton Manning, despite having a noodle arm, is 2nd in the league in QB rating and averaging 8.0 YPA. #1 QB in rating? Aaron Rodgers.

Roethlisberger has 10TD and just 2 Int in 5 games at 65% completion, how again is he looking up to Brandon Wheeden?

Then you bring in QB rating and guess what Roethlisberger is #4 on the list. Oh and Eli Manning 11 TD and 6 Ints but one game more than Big Ben and a worse QBrating as well as lower completion rate. Oh btw Roethlisberger has more yards per game than Eli Manning, so i guess Eli is the one looking up to Brandon Wheeden since Big Ben obviously has better statistics all across the board .

Brady lost against Arizona and Seattle so he is not an elite QB?

Rodgers lost to Seattle as well, lost to San Francisco and to Indiana?

Drew Brees plays for a team without coaching and no defense that gives up over 450 yards offense per game. How is that Brees fault exactly?

 

[kerouac9]

You are silly. Eli lost to the iffy Cowboys and Eagles. And has a lower rating than Brady.

But he didn't lose to us or Seattle. His DVOA is higher than Brady's, and he doesn't have near the weapons to throw to.

Brady's choked in three game-ending situations in all three losses. That has to count for something.

 

[Mulli]

But he didn't lose to us or Seattle. His DVOA is higher than Brady's, and he doesn't have near the weapons to throw to.

Brady's choked in three game-ending situations in all three losses. That has to count for something.

And Brady's kicker missed a FG or he beat the Cards. And the rep refs killed his team in Balt.

 

[kerouac9]

Roethlisberger has 10TD and just 2 Int at 65% completion, how again is he looking up to Brandon Wheeden?


Then you bring in QB rating and guess what Roethlisberger is #4 on the list.

Brady lost against Arizona and Seattle so he is not an elite QB?

Rodgers lost to Seattle as well, lost to San Francisco and to Indiana?

Drew Brees plays for a team without coaching and no defense that gives up over 450 yards offense per game. How is that Brees fault exactly?

Everyone can't be above-average. If you want to include Brady, Brees, and Rothlisberger as the Top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL, more power to you. I don't consider them to be better than my three guys.

 

[slinslin]

Everyone can't be above-average. If you want to include Brady, Brees, and Rothlisberger as the Top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL, more power to you. I don't consider them to be better than my three guys.

Then at least make a decent argument not ridiculous stuff like Brady lost to Arizona and Seattle when Rodgers lost to Indianapolis and Seattle.

Don't make an argument against Roethlisberger statistically when he beats your boy Eli Manning in every statistic.

 

[Mulli]

But he didn't lose to us or Seattle. His DVOA is higher than Brady's, and he doesn't have near the weapons to throw to.

Brady's choked in three game-ending situations in all three losses. That has to count for something.

Brady's DVOA is higher than ARodgers.

 

[kerouac9]

Brady's DVOA is higher than ARodgers.

Yup. But Rodgers is playing with a much worse offensive line in front of him, and no running game to speak of.

 

[Mulli]

Yup. But Rodgers is playing with a much worse offensive line in front of him, and no running game to speak of.

But Rodgers lost to SEA and Indy.

 

[slinslin]

Drew Brees, who was beaten by Cam Newton and Matt Cassel and had an assist from the officials to get his team's only win at home against San Diego? Uh-uh.

Larry Fitzgerald who was beaten by Stevie Johnson and Chris Givens and had an assist from the kicker to get his team a win against New England? Uh-uh. He sucks.

 

[kerouac9]

Then at least make a decent argument not ridiculous stuff like Brady lost to Arizona and Seattle when Rodgers lost to Indianapolis and Seattle.

Don't make an argument against Roethlisberger statistically when he beats your boy Eli Manning in every statistic.

Eli has 340 more yards than Rothlisberger. He has 11 TDs to Rotherlisberger's 8. He's induced 6 DPI calls for 90 hidden yards to Roethlisberger's 1 for 10.

 

[Mulli]

Eli has 340 more yards than Rothlisberger. He has 11 TDs to Rotherlisberger's 8. He's induced 6 DPI calls for 90 hidden yards to Roethlisberger's 1 for 10.

Eli has more weapons and a better OL. Maybe

 

[kerouac9]

Larry Fitzgerald who was beaten by Stevie Johnson and Chris Givens and had an assist from the kicker to get his team a win against New England? Uh-uh. He sucks.

Sh... Larry Fitzgerald isn't an elite receiver right now, either. Shhh....

 

[slinslin]

Eli has 340 more yards than Rothlisberger. He has 11 TDs to Rotherlisberger's 8. He's induced 6 DPI calls for 90 hidden yards to Roethlisberger's 1 for 10.

Eli played 6 games Roethlisberger played 5, smart man. Besides Roethlisberger has 10 TDs to 2 Ints. Eli has 11 TDs and 5 Ints.

Eli has 295 yards per game, Big Ben has 297 yards per game.

Eli has a QBRating of 94.9, Big Ben has 99.9.

Eli has completed 63.6, Big Ben has completed 64.6.