What would a future be without Kyler?

[Ronin]

AMEN! Finally a real fan.

We are all fans.
Okay ill go back in my cave now.

 

[pemory09]

We may never know how good Kyler Murray is unless he is traded. That's really a sad dilemma.

It's hard to know how much is on Murray. I have just as many or more doubts about Kingsbury and Keim.

The Cardinals had a golden opportunity to start over this past off season and blew it.

I guess to answer the question, the future is probably about the same with or without Murray.

Completely agree with this assessment. KK and KM getting re-upped for 5 years is truly the real problem here.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Completely agree with this assessment. KK and KM getting re-upped for 5 years is truly the real problem here.

I'm less concerned with KK getting an extension, than Keim. At least Kliff has shown to get better each year...and can win games with his #1 QB and his backup. He's not quite the dumpster fire most predicted. Maybe he should have gotten a 3 year deal, but that's all I'd gripe about with him. Keim shouldn't have been given anything....just year to year, at most.

 

[Syracusecards]

Would I have faith in the FO? Absolutely not.

But do I have faith in Kyler that he can be anything more then a half the season entertaining QB? That he isn’t likely to be injury prone? That he can learn to actually see the whole field? Can stop panicking under pressure? Can learn the art of stepping up in the pocket? Can change and become an avid studier of the game as opposed to Admitting he doesn’t take certain areas of his craft seriously? Believe he is worth 50 million a season considering all the above? Believe in anyway he is THE GUY that can get this team to a SB?

Absolutely not!

This. Sadly, this.

 

[Russ Smith]

People need to stop talking about Pickett, Willis, Corral etc. if the Cards trade Murray they're not doing it for a QB in this years draft. I was watching some youtubes on this today various networks, essentially almost everyone says if Davis Mills stayed at Stanford he'd be the top rated QB in this draft. he's pretty good but there's a reason people are bringing up Houston in talks about trading for Kyler it's because they're not sure Mills is the guy, and most NFL people think he's better than any QB in this draft. Mills was the 67th pick last year, 3rd round, I think 5th or 6th QB taken. This year is NOT the year to need a QB. Next year would be Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, the kid from Florida.

So if we trade him this year we either get back a QB or we're going to be taking one in 2023.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People need to stop talking about Pickett, Willis, Corral etc. if the Cards trade Murray they're not doing it for a QB in this years draft. I was watching some youtubes on this today various networks, essentially almost everyone says if Davis Mills stayed at Stanford he'd be the top rated QB in this draft. he's pretty good but there's a reason people are bringing up Houston in talks about trading for Kyler it's because they're not sure Mills is the guy, and most NFL people think he's better than any QB in this draft. Mills was the 67th pick last year, 3rd round, I think 5th or 6th QB taken. This year is NOT the year to need a QB. Next year would be Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, the kid from Florida.

So if we trade him this year we either get back a QB or we're going to be taking one in 2023.

Agree. This isn’t the draft to seek your QBOTF.

 

[AZCrazy]

You can't possibly believe that the right course of action is to let yourself be blackmailed either. Set that precedent and anyone will demand anything they want at any time.

I'm a Cardinals fan and a Murray supporter, because he's our guy. But this little guy as won a total of 22 games in his entire career. Over 3 years. With not one playoff win. He's lucky he has a job, let alone be demanding the biggest salary in the history of the NFL.

 

[AZ Native]

Agree. This isn’t the draft to seek your QBOTF.

Thus the pre- summer threats from the Murray camp.

 

[K1Day1]

Would I have faith in the FO? Absolutely not.

But do I have faith in Kyler that he can be anything more then a half the season entertaining QB? That he isn’t likely to be injury prone? That he can learn to actually see the whole field? Can stop panicking under pressure? Can learn the art of stepping up in the pocket? Can change and become an avid studier of the game as opposed to Admitting he doesn’t take certain areas of his craft seriously? Believe he is worth 50 million a season considering all the above? Believe in anyway he is THE GUY that can get this team to a SB?

Absolutely not!

The Cards

Would I have faith in the FO? Absolutely not.

But do I have faith in Kyler that he can be anything more then a half the season entertaining QB? That he isn’t likely to be injury prone? That he can learn to actually see the whole field? Can stop panicking under pressure? Can learn the art of stepping up in the pocket? Can change and become an avid studier of the game as opposed to Admitting he doesn’t take certain areas of his craft seriously? Believe he is worth 50 million a season considering all the above? Believe in anyway he is THE GUY that can get this team to a SB?

Absolutely not!

Let's take a guess what the Cards need to do.

The Cards need to draft Kenny Pickett, pick up Baker Mayfield or Jimmy G. in free agency or even better yet, the Cards need to figure out a way to bring back the God (Josh Rosen). LOL...
What a sad post. Tell me 1 (One), quarterback the Cards have drafted (drafted) "Since they moved here to Arizona and we were watching games on HOT bleachers at A.S.U", That is better than the guy they have now.
Let me guess what your response is. Jake Plummer, Matt Leinart or the Great, Great Chosen Rosen... But I'm sure you probably think the Cards will get lots of first round draft picks for Murray and All of a sudden the Cards are gonna get another good quarterback (Good luck with that since Steve Keim will be drafting) SMH... What a sad post..

 

[CFLredzoned]

I can’t help but chuckle when I read these sentiments. What do you think the agents job is? It is solely to look out for his client. He is literally meant to be the bad guy so his client doesn’t take the heat. He has ZERO responsibility for the team or the fans.

Well I wouldn't say ZERO. The agent has a repsonsible to his client and the client has a responsibility to the team and maybe the fans. If A=B and B=C, then... at least to a small degree. I think most agents get that. But this guy is taking ZERO to a completely different level. The Kyler thing doesn't bug me as much as the timing of the Kingsbury Oklahoma thing. Knowing full well that the Cardinals aren't a "robust" enough franchise to weather something like that. I know. He shouldn't care. I get it. I should probably just chalk it up to bad luck.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well I wouldn't say ZERO. The agent has a repsonsible to his client and the client has a responsibility to the team and maybe the fans. If A=B and B=C, then... at least to a small degree. I think most agents get that. But this guy is taking ZERO to a completely different level. The Kyler thing doesn't bug me as much as the timing of the Kingsbury Oklahoma thing. Knowing full well that the Cardinals aren't a "robust" enough franchise to weather something like that. I know. He shouldn't care. I get it. I should probably just chalk it up to bad luck.

Uh, the cardinals did weather it, so I don’t get where you are going with the Oklahoma thing.

And no, the transitive property is not at play with an agent. He is literally engaged and paid to do his client’s bidding. If the client wants him to do something for the franchise, or fans, or football it’s the clients responsibility to instruct his agent to do so, to take that into consideration. Absent that direction an agent is in dereliction of his duty if he’s doing anything but advocating 100% (not 99%, not 99.5%, not even 99.9%) for his client.

 

[Russ Smith]

You can't possibly believe that the right course of action is to let yourself be blackmailed either. Set that precedent and anyone will demand anything they want at any time.

I'm a Cardinals fan and a Murray supporter, because he's our guy. But this little guy as won a total of 22 games in his entire career. Over 3 years. With not one playoff win. He's lucky he has a job, let alone be demanding the biggest salary in the history of the NFL.

So you just blow it up and win 4 games this year but hey at least we didn't let ourselves get pushed around by a kid who turned around a team with the worst offense in the history of our franchise?

there is no perfect answer here which is why many of us are so mad at all the parties involved.

But trading Murray because you refuse to negotiate his contract is a horrible idea now, if you were going to do it, do it when there were viable options available to trade for. There is no QB in this draft who will come in and be anywhere near Murray, in fact I think it's likely if we picked a QB this year they wouldn't start at all, McCoy would. Willis is a great athlete but he played at a lower level, he will need time to adjust. Pickett played 5 years of college football and before last year never had more than 13 TD passes(and 9 picks twice). Then he goes 42 TD's 7 picks and suddenly he's a first rounder. The scouts say smart guy tons of experience, not a strong arm. First scouting report I read on him notably small hands a fumble concern it's why he wears gloves, takes lots of sacks because he looks to scramble instead of operating in the pocket, tends to check the ball down when there are options available downfield. Their pro comparison, Taylor Heinecke. If that's the guy I'd rather keep Murray or trade him for picks, play McCoy this year and take a QB next year. The 2nd scouting report I looked at compared Pickett to Jimmy G! Willis is the guy with the highest ceiling but we'd have to move up to get him and virtually nobody thinks he'll be ready to start right away.

 

[phillycard]

Look, I don't wanna speculate on any of this personally. But if we're gonna do it, just do it. This is the part of the off-season game I hate. Speculating about who's going where and why we should trade this player or that player. I know I'm spitting in the wind, but as a fan it makes it damn near impossible to gauge expectations for the season. I love Kyler. Not so much after last season, but if he has to go to stop the hissy fit drama, then so be it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We may never know how good Kyler Murray is unless he is traded. That's really a sad dilemma.

It's hard to know how much is on Murray. I have just as many or more doubts about Kingsbury and Keim.

The Cardinals had a golden opportunity to start over this past off season and blew it.

I guess to answer the question, the future is probably about the same with or without Murray.

Three games of Colt McCoy showed what we need to know about Kingsbury. He wins when he gets good to decent QB play for the most part.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Three games of Colt McCoy showed what we need to know about Kingsbury. He wins when he gets good to decent QB play for the most part.

3 games isn’t a big enough sample size imo to make that statement.

 

[DVontel]

3 games isn’t a big enough sample size imo to make that statement.

Shouldn’t even be in your opinion. Should be factual & I actually don’t mind Kliff.

 

[Mainstreet]

Three games of Colt McCoy showed what we need to know about Kingsbury. He wins when he gets good to decent QB play for the most part.

This seems to suggest Kingsbury doesn't need a special talent at quarterback to execute his offense.

 

[mojorizen7]

Speaking from a neutral perspective, i strongly believe that losing Murray with Keim and Kingsbury still in house going forward is the wrong decision/direction.

IMO the Murray warts are mostly maturity but solvable with time and better leadership at HC. He's uber-talented and can change games. I do wonder about his competitive fire sometimes but i don't know him so i could be off base on that.

A new GM is long overdue IMO.

I don't think KK is the answer either but he could use some legit team building support rather than Keim's whack-a-mole approach.

I just don't see how rebooting at QB with Keim/KK is the right move. I think drafting Murray is one of the few things he's gotten right.

 

[juza76]

Considering who is running the franchise likely dark

 

[Krangodnzr]

Speaking from a neutral perspective, i strongly believe that losing Murray with Keim and Kingsbury still in house going forward is the wrong decision/direction.

IMO the Murray warts are mostly maturity but solvable with time and better leadership at HC. He's uber-talented and can change games. I do wonder about his competitive fire sometimes but i don't know him so i could be off base on that.

A new GM is long overdue IMO.

I don't think KK is the answer either but he could use some legit team building support rather than Keim's whack-a-mole approach.

I just don't see how rebooting at QB with Keim/KK is the right move. I think drafting Murray is one of the few things he's gotten right.

I think the Kliff/Murray combo needs more time. Keim should have been gone a long time ago

 

[Krangodnzr]

This seems to suggest Kingsbury doesn't need a special talent at quarterback to execute his offense.

I don't think that's the conclusion I would come to, but I think it's a QB friendly system.

 

[Krangodnzr]

3 games isn’t a big enough sample size imo to make that statement.

No it's not a huge sample size, sure, but it shows some of Murray's shortcomings that McCoy could step in and be successful.

McCoy pretty well handled a fairly good Niners team and beat a division rival in the Seahawks.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think the Kliff/Murray combo needs more time. Keim should have been gone a long time ago

With a new GM i can see that argument. The argument against that would be the late season collapses which i would put upon the coaching staff.

KK is a likable guy. He's intelligent, even-keeled and belongs in the NFL but is he a HC that really commands the room? Is his relationship with Murray and the rest of the team from a pro football leadership standpoint healthy? I don't know.

IMO he's an OC, but he should have a better roster in year 4 then he does. I'm talking skill positions.

Either way i think we're in agreement in order of value/importance to the franchise.
1. Murray(Dynamic #1 overall pick who's had success but needs leadership from his HC)
2. KK(May be in over his head as HC but needs better roster)
3. Keim(9 years of team building and is set to plug holes from bad drafts yet again in 2022)

AZ seems to have this backwards. That's my overall take on this.

 

[Solar7]

It's an unclear future, that's for sure, but I think the future is pretty much just as murky with him here. Obviously I've been strongly in the "fire Keim & Kliff" camp, so it's hard to really figure out what the best next step is here. Where we stand today with signings, the length of their extensions, and all that, I don't think we really have any intention of competing this year. It feels like "okay, we have to field a roster, so let's bring back a mediocre version of last year's team and then rebuild in 2023."

That's why I'd be alright with trading Kyler and just calling this a lost season. One of the biggest problems I have with Kliff is that I think he's uncomfortable giving Kyler true criticism because of their previous relationship and how much he's hyped him up. Trying to be optimistic about the situation, maybe giving Kliff the chance to coach up someone he doesn't know as well would free him to focus on coaching instead of managing a kid's ego.

I don't envision chasing any of this year's QBs, but if you can get a haul of picks between this year and next, maybe we can finally build a roster with some young talent as opposed to the situation of chasing retreads like we're doing currently.

I definitely fear that keeping Kyler means he either holds out, or we get 1-2 years of play that never sees us as true contenders and we move on from him for nothing.

 

[DVontel]

maybe we can finally build a roster with some young talent as opposed to the situation of chasing retreads like we're doing currently.

It’s funny cause I’m sure you had the same thought process in 2018.