What's the problem with Warner?

[LVCARDFREAK]

I have read through all the threads and started thinking what could be the reasons Warner looked so bad in the preseason? Of course his hip might be bothering him but two things stand out to me that there is really no cure for.

I believe Warner is ultra competitive (just a hunch) and he thrives under pressure. I believe His preaseason and regular season were good ones last year because he was competing with Leinart. All preseason the question was "Who would start?" It forced Warner to be on his game and constantly look over his shoulder. I think there could be some complacency set it now that the job and team is his.

The second issue, which is very related to the first, is the loss of Todd Haley. In an interview a few weeks ago Warner repeated that it was a big loss for him b/c "...Haley challenged me and we fed ideas off each other".

Losing Haley, and not having the same relationship with Whiz could very well hurt Warner's sense of urgency and his competitiveness. I dont think Whiz can have that same type of relationship with Warner just based on the nature of Whiz's head coaching duties. I think the loss of Haley will hurt the Cards this year.

I want to believe his hip is what is ailing him but he keeps suggesting that it isnt bothering him. I think the QB competition and Haleys challenging him really helped Warner to a big year last year.

Lets hope it can all pull together come reg. season!!

 

[Perfectionist]

I am not sure anything is really wrong with Kurt except the rust is still there. He has only attempted 39 passes so far this preseason and I think it takes Kurt awhile to really get into the flow of things. He is going to need to concentrate on holding on to the ball as he did last year, but I think once he gets into a rhythm things will be fine.

The way Matt is looking and the potential improvement in our run game, I am not to concerned about our offense but which defense is going to show up is what bothers me.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

He's a bit of a fumbler and that hasn't changed much (gloves or not). I believe you also could be right about him needing that kind of pressure. Hopefully he picks his game up in the regular season.

He's also been up against good/great defensive 1st teams. The way he did against the Steelers was acceptable considering it was the Steelers 1st team D. He was without Boldin and Breaston against the Packers 1st team, so that may have made a difference. I'm not sure about the bad pass against the Chargers, but they did move the ball for the short time he was out there right? Hopefully he'll do well against the Broncos this weekend. I'd like to see ML start and KW finnish the game.

 

[green machine]

Complacency.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

He's a bit of a fumbler and that hasn't changed much (gloves or not). I believe you also could be right about him needing that kind of pressure. Hopefully he picks his game up in the regular season.

He's also been up against good/great defensive 1st teams. The way he did against the Steelers was acceptable considering it was the Steelers 1st team D. He was without Boldin and Breaston against the Packers 1st team, so that may have made a difference. I'm not sure about the bad pass against the Chargers, but they did move the ball for the short time he was out there right? Hopefully he'll do well against the Broncos this weekend. I'd like to see ML start and KW finnish the game.

Dont get me wrong, it is preseason and I am not overly concerned. I just wonder how much of his game is mental? Meaning how much he relies on that mental challenge to "get up" for games. Haley certainly provided that for him, to a degree the QB competition did as well.

 

[Bobcat]

Guy's it is his hip...!!! Just watch his throwing motion. He is favoring his hip that has had surgery last winter.

What surprise me is that Whiz and the staff haven't noticed.

BOBCAT

 

[RedStorm]

Not overly concerned but I do like with Leinart is showing.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Super Bowl hangover? The last time Kurt went to a Super Bowl he was awful the following preseason and continued sucking for about three years. I wish Kurt the best and hope this is a fluke but no matter what I hope we have a Bulger or Eli in the wings in Leinart.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Super Bowl hangover? The last time Kurt went to a Super Bowl he was awful the following preseason and continued sucking for about three years. I wish Kurt the best and hope this is a fluke but no matter what I hope we have a Bulger or Eli in the wings in Leinart.

He had one before that too, but it wasn't the hangover thing. Had the defense held it would have affected his entire year?

 

[lauraw]

I think his hip is worse that he lets on.. it could be turning arthritic and slowly degenerating...

 

[Gambit]

Guy's it is his hip...!!! Just watch his throwing motion. He is favoring his hip that has had surgery last winter.

What surprise me is that Whiz and the staff haven't noticed.

BOBCAT

They probably have, but maybe are feeling the pressure to play him until he can't any more because of the contract.

 

[JeffGollin]

Kurt is just being Kurt. Human nature being what it is, he will sometimes cut a corner or two, and then it comes back to bite him.

Then he comes back to earth, protects the ball better, gets rid of it a half-second quicker and doesn't try so hard to turn lemons into apple cider.

Of course, when he's in a "down" cycle, it makes us antsy about "when he's going to snap out of it."

But he always does.

Still...

 

[Goober Man]

I am also worried about Warner. I think the hip surgery messed with him a bit and also with his age he just can't make the same throws anymore. Hopefully he'll come back to form so we can make another playoff run.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Although I am in Leinarts' corner, I still think KW is the best there is at putting the ball where it needs to be. He somehow just looks like he has 'cobwebs' or something.

I think when he has Fitz, Q, Breaston,(insert a tight end) and some greater semblance of a running game, he will probably be just fine, at least to start the season. He still has a couple weeks for his hip to improve and work on his timing before the whiners come to town.

 

[az jam]

I'm more worried about our porous defense than Warner. I think Kurt will be fine for the start of the season and Leinart is there to run the team if Kurt falters. Wish I had some optimism for the defense but I don't.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Wish I had some optimism for the defense but I don't.

Roger that

 

[Cards232]

Frankly guys I don't get it. Warner is fine. I went back & looked at the game again, & he was spot on w/ the vast majority of his throws & reads. Did he have a couple of bad throws (i.e. the under thrown pick?), sure. Did he have a more than average number of dropped passes that would have made a difference in the game? Absolutely. Did Montana ever have those kind of days, especially in pre-season? With only 1 starting receiver out there?

So, in short, what's wrong w/ Warner? Nothing. It's pre-season. Talk to me after the Niner game. Otherwise, it's pre-season. Without all the starters, without the full offensive scheme, without full pre-game planning, & without the cohesiveness yet w/ guys like Long, t.e.'s, etc.. Understand the whole picture guys, not just the snap shots.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm more worried about our porous defense than Warner. I think Kurt will be fine for the start of the season and Leinart is there to run the team if Kurt falters. Wish I had some optimism for the defense but I don't.

After our first half last game, I would have to agree. No way we will leave our CB's on an island like we did last game. Bill Davis has a lot of work to do.

 

[Totally_Red]

Frankly guys I don't get it. Warner is fine. I went back & looked at the game again, & he was spot on w/ the vast majority of his throws & reads. Did he have a couple of bad throws (i.e. the under thrown pick?), sure. Did he have a more than average number of dropped passes that would have made a difference in the game? Absolutely. Did Montana ever have those kind of days, especially in pre-season? With only 1 starting receiver out there?

So, in short, what's wrong w/ Warner? Nothing. It's pre-season. Talk to me after the Niner game. Otherwise, it's pre-season. Without all the starters, without the full offensive scheme, without full pre-game planning, & without the cohesiveness yet w/ guys like Long, t.e.'s, etc.. Understand the whole picture guys, not just the snap shots.

I thought his passing and accuracy was fine. It was his ball security that was problematic.

One thing I am sure of. If Oliver Ross gets on the field during the regular season, Lloyds of London wouldn't insure the Cardinals quarterbacks. The risk is just too great.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He had one before that too, but it wasn't the hangover thing. Had the defense held it would have affected his entire year?

Well, people noticed he did not look as good in the 2002 preseason much like they're saying this year. It's highly likely that there's nothing wrong but that doesn't mean we should not be concerned. Warner's simply been awful in the preseason - what he did last year has nothing to do with it.

And I will also note that the Warner people surely did not use the "It's only preseason!" excuse last year when Leinart had his struggles in the Raiders game. Warner gets his chance to this season for at least the first several games but if he continues what he's been doing in the preseason then we have to go with Leinart.

 

[Dayman]

My expectations for Warner changed dramatically this summer. The last couple of years, he was the savvy veteran on a relatively modest salary looking to resurrect his career. I took the bad with the good and wrote off his high turnover games as part of the package.

After Warner went on every sports' talk radio/tv show and complained about being underpaid for the last couple of years and repeatedly said he should be paid like a top 5 QB, everything changed. He's now the highest paid player in franchise history. His average annual salary ranks in the top 10 of the league. The guy needs to play like a top 5 QB, and so far this preseason, he isn't. Far from it, actually.

The following are the preseason stats for the top 5 QB's (QB rating) from last year.

Manning 23/31 296 yards 3 TD/0 INT 136.0 rating
Brees 29/40 314 yards 4 TD/0 INT 132.7 rating
Pennington 21/34 271 yards 2 TD/0 INT 106.4 rating
Rivers 10/15 142 yards 0 TD/0 INT 97.1 rating
Warner 22/39 272 yards 0 TD//2 INT 56.8 rating

Sure, it's only preseason, but it's only preseason for the rest of these guys, too, and they don't seem to be struggling. None of them are coming off of surgery, but Brady is, and he's still posting a 106 rating thus far. In fact, Warner has the lowest preseason rating of any starting QB in the league, assuming Culpepper starts in Detroit. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe Kurt is simply struggling with the fading after effects of hip surgery and needs more game planning to really shine. But after the money and commitment this team gave Warner in the offseason, he needs to step it up. Soon.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Frankly guys I don't get it. Warner is fine. I went back & looked at the game again, & he was spot on w/ the vast majority of his throws & reads. Did he have a couple of bad throws (i.e. the under thrown pick?), sure. Did he have a more than average number of dropped passes that would have made a difference in the game? Absolutely. Did Montana ever have those kind of days, especially in pre-season? With only 1 starting receiver out there?

So, in short, what's wrong w/ Warner? Nothing. It's pre-season. Talk to me after the Niner game. Otherwise, it's pre-season. Without all the starters, without the full offensive scheme, without full pre-game planning, & without the cohesiveness yet w/ guys like Long, t.e.'s, etc.. Understand the whole picture guys, not just the snap shots.

Every camp report I heard "Warner is sailing balls" "not being very accurate", then I see games-albeit preseason-where he is doing the same thing. It could very well be his hip and he is working through it, but there is still cause for concern 3 games into preseason and 32 days into training camp.

My question was more along the lines of could it be mental? Could it be that Haley's abscence is affecting him more than he has let on? I really think it has as he has eluded to it several times. I dont know that thiere is a cure for this unless Whiz can step up and take on that role which is highly unlikely...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Good job Dayman. Stating your opinion and backing it up with facts, we need more of you around here. Keep it up and post more.

Warner is a concern thus far. He has to be with how he's looked.

 

[Cards232]

Well, people noticed he did not look as good in the 2002 preseason much like they're saying this year. It's highly likely that there's nothing wrong but that doesn't mean we should not be concerned. Warner's simply been awful in the preseason - what he did last year has nothing to do with it.

And I will also note that the Warner people surely did not use the "It's only preseason!" excuse last year when Leinart had his struggles in the Raiders game. Warner gets his chance to this season for at least the first several games but if he continues what he's been doing in the preseason then we have to go with Leinart.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider awful in the Steeler game as well as the last? Were his throws off the mark for the better part? Was he missing open receivers? Were his reads bad? Was he hanging in the pocket too long? Were his spirals not tight enough so that his receivers couldn't catch the ball? Poor arm strength? Floating the balls?

I'm not trying to beat up on you. I just don't get it. I think he looked pretty darn good in the face of a blitzing defense, w/ a very vanilla offense, & w/ receivers that may not even make the team let alone be starters, & w/ a line that was a sieve for the better part.

One could see, when the play called for Fitz, Fitz was where he should be & Kurt was dead on, no acrobatic catches needed. Same for several other passes. He threw one horrible ball on the pick. It happens.

On another note, you're absolutely correct about Ross. Surely they can't be serious about this guy. Sheesh

 

[Cards232]

Every camp report I heard "Warner is sailing balls" "not being very accurate", then I see games-albeit preseason-where he is doing the same thing. It could very well be his hip and he is working through it, but there is still cause for concern 3 games into preseason and 32 days into training camp.

My question was more along the lines of could it be mental? Could it be that Haley's abscence is affecting him more than he has let on? I really think it has as he has eluded to it several times. I dont know that thiere is a cure for this unless Whiz can step up and take on that role which is highly unlikely...

I'll ask you the same question I did MTFC. Did Warner "sail" any balls vs. the Steelers or the Packers? I'm sorry, I just didn't see it. I wasn't at camp so can't speak to his performance there, but his performance in the 2 games afore mentioned, he's looked pretty good overall given the circumstances.

Kurt really shines when he's able to adjust at the line & change the call depending on what the defense is giving. Have you seen much of that this pre-season? How have the 4th & 5th stringers done w/ their "hots"? Whis has mentioned the receivers have struggled w/ their reads. It's part of the pre-season w/ young guys. Warner normally doesn't have to deal w/ that in the pre-season.

Things should be quite different come the regular season barring injuries.