Whiz faces a dilemma:

[Catfish]

Before I go into what that dilemma is, let me reiterate that Whiz has accomplished what I did not believe he could possibly do. He has reached the .500 mark in wins and losses this season, after starting with one win and six losses. I know that much of this has been due to Horton's new defense, but Whiz hired Horton to do just that, and it worked. That coupled with the emergence of Skelton as a QB has made this team respectable, and a force to be reconned with throughout the league. Whiz deserves his due credit for this.

Now, after 14 games, our record is 7-7. Kolb is on the verge of being healthy enough to return to playing again. Whiz has stated that he hates to see a man lose his starting position because of injury. The dilemma that Whiz now faces is, does he now bench Skelton in order to start Kolb, if Kolb is cleared by the medical staff.

I would agree with Whiz, that it seems unjust to bench a QB just because he suffered an injury. But, (at least in my estimation), there is more to this situation than simply having suffered and injury. First, Kolb has yet to prove that he has truly mastered the QB position. His play, (at game speed when under fire), leaves much to be desired, even at this point. He has yet to show that he can overcome his skittishness when the pressure comes, and step up into the pocket and go through his progressions to find the open receiver. Granted, he has made progress to that end, (and may in fact have been on the verge of proving that very point), when he suffered his injury. But the truth is, that he has not yet proven that the QB job should be given to him.

Skelton, on the other hand, has been given nothing, (least of all the respect that he deserves for having accomplished what no one believed he could), posting a record of 6 wins against only 1 loss over the last 7 games.
Some of these games, he has had to do so the hard way, without getting the practice reps of the starter during the week leading up to the game. He has been unflappable under pressure. He clearly works through his progressions, all the while staying within the pocket until it becomes clear that he needs to move. Even then, he has been successful in using his feet to get him out of trouble as often as not. He has produced a decent, although slightly erratic passing game, (occasionally showing the ability to throw a beautiful long ball). He has been quick to own up to his mistakes, especially to his linemen, a fact that has endeared him to them, as they have had their own problems in the passing game. They seem to understand that, like them, he is giving his very best, ALL the time.

It is my belief that Skelton's performance under fire should be sufficient for him to retain the starting QB position on this team until he is outplayed by someone else. His statistics and his record as a starting QB are far and above those posted by either Kolb or Bartel. When you consider that playoffs are not yet out of the picture, I believe this decision should be a no brainer. Yes, Kolb lost his starting position due to injury. But the facts are that he was given that job. He did little to warrant keeping it, whereas Skelton was given nothing, and has posted the numbers to show that he has earned the starting QB position.

There will be plenty of time, during the upcoming off-season to have Kolb and Skelton compete for the position for next year. That would seem to me to be reasonable and fair, considering there was no real off season this year. But for now, Skelton has earned the starting spot in the lineup. I would hate to see that taken from him and given to an unproven player, injured or not.

 

[Russ Smith]

not picking on Catfish here but people keep saying Skelton's getting no reps during the week, where is that coming from, did Whiz say it?

I just find it hard to believe that NFL concussion rules will allow a guy to practice before he's cleared to play so it's surprising to me that Kolb is taking reps during the week if he's not yet cleared?

 

[Zeno]

not picking on Catfish here but people keep saying Skelton's getting no reps during the week, where is that coming from, did Whiz say it?

I just find it hard to believe that NFL concussion rules will allow a guy to practice before he's cleared to play so it's surprising to me that Kolb is taking reps during the week if he's not yet cleared?

Everything I've read said he was splitting practice reps prior to last weeks game, the week of the 49er game he had very few reps though as Kolb was healthy.

 

[oaken1]

I agree with you catfish....when all things are properly considered, including Kolb's long term health...it makes every bit of sense to have Skelton finish this season as the starter.

Kolb can continue to progress and increase his offensive knowledge during practice while allowing his skull to refrain from receiving thunderous hits..which should help him a bit in the healing process.

IMO the coaching staff cannot trust Kolb right now. He has a very fat roster bonus due in a few months and may likely push his recovery in order to prove he deserves to be here. As much as I do not like the idea I think the team should sit him out and plan to pay his bonus in March and bring him into training camp healthy next year.
It could backfire as he may never play another quality NFL down but some risks need to be gambled on.

on the other hand...maybe they want to put Kolb back in,.....see if he gets his bell rung again,...then maybe cut him if he shows he is addicted to concussions.


Starting Skelton the rest of the season just makes the overall team better in the long run IMO.

 

[Pariah]

Unless we get eliminated from contention, I don't see Kolb getting healthy any time soon. I think Whiz will stick with the hot hand and the medical staff will be given the directive that Kolb isn't ready.

 

[az jam]

I would sit Kolb for the rest of the season. I would hate to see him get another concussion.

 

[187]

I agree on sitting Kolb for the rest of the season, no real reason to risk his healthy when Skelton is playing good enough to consistently win games. Let the two battle it out in training camp and the preseason before next season. Sucks for Kolb, this is the second season in a row where injuries have screwed him out of starting, only Philly didn't look back.

 

[Catfish]

not picking on Catfish here but people keep saying Skelton's getting no reps during the week, where is that coming from, did Whiz say it?

I just find it hard to believe that NFL concussion rules will allow a guy to practice before he's cleared to play so it's surprising to me that Kolb is taking reps during the week if he's not yet cleared?

Russ----just 2 or3 weeks ago, when Kolb started but was knocked out in the first series, I am pretty sure that Kolb got all the starting practice reps that week. He had been cleared by the medical staff to start. I believe that was the San Francisco game. I may be wrong about that, but I seem to recall someone saying that Kolb got the reps that week. I have no way to check on it though.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ----just 2 or3 weeks ago, when Kolb started but was knocked out in the first series, I am pretty sure that Kolb got all the starting practice reps that week. I believe that was the San Francisco game. I may be wrong about that, but I seem to recall someone saying that Kolb got the reps that week. I have no way to check on it though.

Yeah he did that week I meant since then because I've seen several people say it as if Kolb is getting the reps during the week and then not cleared to play Sunday which if true makes no sense at all.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I just don't get the axe grinding about Skelton not getting any respect. No respect?
From whom? Message board geeks like us? Yeah, no one in the organization seems to be gushing about his performance but then I don't hear other coaches really hype their players either. Only the national media slobbers on Tebow and they love Rodgers, rightfully so.

The Cards aren't on anyone's radar anyway so there is no love there, who cares? There are always fans that prefer one player over another because that's what fans do. Those that like Skelton say so and they have every right to their opinion, to me the majority have taken a wait and see attitude tempered with cautious optimism. I'm sure his teammates respect him and right now that's probably all that matters.

Kid has done ok by me and I'm sure he will sleep well tonight knowing that.

.

 

[27Veer]

I read two articles today that have Larry Fitz giving Skelton big kudos, like donning his cape to rescue the Cards. Not bad at all.

 

[Duckjake]

No respect?
From whom? Message board geeks like us?

Well who else is going to give him respect? The Coaches could care less. You play good or you're gone. That's all they know.

Been that way for 100 years.

 

[Goodyear Card]

There is nothing from the Cardinals organization saying Skelton is ahead of Kolb on the depth chart. The only dilemma is in the fans mind. When Kolb is healthy he will start. This is no disrespect to Skelton. He has done a good job, not great. This is the life of a back-up in the NFL. We are lucky to have two QBs who are quality starters on our roster. Lets leave it at that.

 

[MrYeahBut]

The Coaches could care less. You play good or you're gone. That's all they know.

Been that way for 100 years.

That's basically my point. The hand wringing over respect seems to be from those who feel Whiz doesn't give it to him.

ps. if you know this has been going on for 100 years you are older than 40year and are showing him no respect by constantly dissing him

 

[desertdawg]

What's the worst that can happen?

Didn't want to start another Skelton/Kolb thread so I thought I'd jump on this one, Catfish is cool.

What's the worst that can happen....?
Skelton gets the start and wins again? Nope.
Skelton comes back and loses? No sir.
Kolb comes back and wins? I'm still cool.
Kolb comes back and loses? I'll be cool but this forum will light up, but not the worst thing.
Kolb comes back, and takes another hit to the dome, while still feeling the effects from the last one.

I've been gone all day, but everything I'm reading in here today about possibly shelving Kolb for another week or the last 2 games does make sense to me. Especially when speaking from an investment point of view, or if you just care about the guy's health (I do).

Skelton has proven he can get her done, he's only getting better, and the ESPN interviewer even asked (quoting with my short term memory here) "What's it like...when the game is on the line...and you have to go "clutch-time?""

I still feel the way I do, if he is healthy...it's Kolb dot com.
Skelton should start if there is any doubt, I won't say it's because Skelton is winning, because Kolb can also with this squad IMO. (Sorry for bogarting your thread Catfish )

 

[Bobcat]

not picking on Catfish here but people keep saying Skelton's getting no reps during the week, where is that coming from, did Whiz say it?

I just find it hard to believe that NFL concussion rules will allow a guy to practice before he's cleared to play so it's surprising to me that Kolb is taking reps during the week if he's not yet cleared?

Whiz stated this in his presser on KTAR 92.7 right after the game. I strongly believe that he is eying JS for our future QB. JS reminds me a lot like Big Ben on Sunday it took 7 Brown's to try to tackle him, but failed. WOW

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Good run down of the dilemma Whiz has for the rest of the season.

An even bigger dilemma will come after the season when Whiz and company have to come to grips with what this team has become.

In my humble opinion, unless you want to force this team to be something, you have to embrace what this team has skill wise.

Right now, this is a team that relies on a defense to control the game, and an offense whose best assets are based around the running game.

The dilemma is:

Are the Cardinals going to take the risk on Kolb for another year, and risk the money, and the time that could be concentrated on Skelton, in order to hope Kolb "gets it" and becomes the franchise QB they signed him to be

or

Are the Cardinals going to take what they have, cut Kolb, and use that money to keep this defense together ? Thus taking a risk that John Skelton will progress, and not only continue to do enough to win games, but begin to have the ability to carry the team need be.


That is the dilemma I see. If this 7 game stretch is not some kind of cruel joke, or fluke, then I cannot see how you don't embrace the defense. A defense that is without Greg Toler, and Dan Williams. The identity of this team is coming into its own. We have swung to the other side of the spectrum of football. Instead of throwing the ball all over the field and scoring points by the bowl full. We are now a running team, with a good defense. Dare I say, we are the team we thought we would be when Whiz & Grimm took this thing over.

Personally, even being a John Skelton fan, I want to see the team succeed. Regardless of who does it, and how it is done.

 

[Catfish]

Good run down of the dilemma Whiz has for the rest of the season.

An even bigger dilemma will come after the season when Whiz and company have to come to grips with what this team has become.

In my humble opinion, unless you want to force this team to be something, you have to embrace what this team has skill wise.

Right now, this is a team that relies on a defense to control the game, and an offense whose best assets are based around the running game.

The dilemma is:

Are the Cardinals going to take the risk on Kolb for another year, and risk the money, and the time that could be concentrated on Skelton, in order to hope Kolb "gets it" and becomes the franchise QB they signed him to be

or

Are the Cardinals going to take what they have, cut Kolb, and use that money to keep this defense together ? Thus taking a risk that John Skelton will progress, and not only continue to do enough to win games, but begin to have the ability to carry the team need be.


That is the dilemma I see. If this 7 game stretch is not some kind of cruel joke, or fluke, then I cannot see how you don't embrace the defense. A defense that is without Greg Toler, and Dan Williams. The identity of this team is coming into its own. We have swung to the other side of the spectrum of football. Instead of throwing the ball all over the field and scoring points by the bowl full. We are now a running team, with a good defense. Dare I say, we are the team we thought we would be when Whiz & Grimm took this thing over.

Personally, even being a John Skelton fan, I want to see the team succeed. Regardless of who does it, and how it is done.

Muffin, you're right about this team having a whole new identity. We ARE a run first team with a defense that can stop the opponent more often than not. We have come full circle. I look forward to getting our hurt players back during the off-season, and I also look forward to seeing a healthy competition between Kolb, Skelton, and Bartel, unless the staff decides to cut Kolb and go for the money. I can't wait for free agency to begin, and see where the next step takes this team. We now have sufficient weapons on both sides of the ball to be formidable. With the right off-season acquisitions, we could become not only very good, but good very deep. I am stoked about what we can do with the salary floor in the CBA, along with FA, the Draft, and a long off season of mini-camps, OTA's, and a real training camp. Go Cards !!!!!

 

[Darkside]

Before I go into what that dilemma is, let me reiterate that Whiz has accomplished what I did not believe he could possibly do. He has reached the .500 mark in wins and losses this season, after starting with one win and six losses. I know that much of this has been due to Horton's new defense, but Whiz hired Horton to do just that, and it worked. That coupled with the emergence of Skelton as a QB has made this team respectable, and a force to be reconned with throughout the league. Whiz deserves his due credit for this.

Now, after 14 games, our record is 7-7. Kolb is on the verge of being healthy enough to return to playing again. Whiz has stated that he hates to see a man lose his starting position because of injury. The dilemma that Whiz now faces is, does he now bench Skelton in order to start Kolb, if Kolb is cleared by the medical staff.

I would agree with Whiz, that it seems unjust to bench a QB just because he suffered an injury. But, (at least in my estimation), there is more to this situation than simply having suffered and injury. First, Kolb has yet to prove that he has truly mastered the QB position. His play, (at game speed when under fire), leaves much to be desired, even at this point. He has yet to show that he can overcome his skittishness when the pressure comes, and step up into the pocket and go through his progressions to find the open receiver. Granted, he has made progress to that end, (and may in fact have been on the verge of proving that very point), when he suffered his injury. But the truth is, that he has not yet proven that the QB job should be given to him.

Skelton, on the other hand, has been given nothing, (least of all the respect that he deserves for having accomplished what no one believed he could), posting a record of 6 wins against only 1 loss over the last 7 games.
Some of these games, he has had to do so the hard way, without getting the practice reps of the starter during the week leading up to the game. He has been unflappable under pressure. He clearly works through his progressions, all the while staying within the pocket until it becomes clear that he needs to move. Even then, he has been successful in using his feet to get him out of trouble as often as not. He has produced a decent, although slightly erratic passing game, (occasionally showing the ability to throw a beautiful long ball). He has been quick to own up to his mistakes, especially to his linemen, a fact that has endeared him to them, as they have had their own problems in the passing game. They seem to understand that, like them, he is giving his very best, ALL the time.

It is my belief that Skelton's performance under fire should be sufficient for him to retain the starting QB position on this team until he is outplayed by someone else. His statistics and his record as a starting QB are far and above those posted by either Kolb or Bartel. When you consider that playoffs are not yet out of the picture, I believe this decision should be a no brainer. Yes, Kolb lost his starting position due to injury. But the facts are that he was given that job. He did little to warrant keeping it, whereas Skelton was given nothing, and has posted the numbers to show that he has earned the starting QB position.

There will be plenty of time, during the upcoming off-season to have Kolb and Skelton compete for the position for next year. That would seem to me to be reasonable and fair, considering there was no real off season this year. But for now, Skelton has earned the starting spot in the lineup. I would hate to see that taken from him and given to an unproven player, injured or not.

Nice post man, well thought out and well written. I still think Kolb deserves the start though, even though I'm now officially on the Skelton koolaid list. I'm really liking what I see from Skelton but business-wise we have to start Kolb as soon as possible and see how he plays and reacts. The $$ we gave up for Kolb isn't as bad as many people--myself included--thought at first, but the fact is there are escalators in that contract and if we keep Kolb too long his contract will mushroom-cloud on us. Have to find out what he's got before then, unfortunately to the "unfairness" of Skelton.

I do however disagree with the fact that Skelton isn't getting any love, like he's being dissed all the time. Whisenhunt is playing him. We all know Whis isn't a touchy-feel-good type of guy, the most respect you're gonna get (like PP) is if he plays you.

I also think, unlike some people, that his comment after the Browns win, that Skelton missed a seam pass, that is an act of affection or admiration, coming from Whis. Really believe that. Those missed seam passes to the TE drive Whis nuts, he's mentioned it all year. If he didn't like the guy he could say yeah he played well for us, and just be all politically correct and blow it off, knowing Kolb is the guy. He didn't do that, he pointed out an area Skelton needs to improve or work on, and you don't do that if you dislike a dude. You only say that to someone you want to see grow and succeed. I honestly believe Whis loves him some Skelton. I really believe that.

Skelton is the future QB of our team, and I think Whis is seeing that. It honestly reminds me of his demeanor when the "battle" between Leinart and Warner was going on, when Whis had Warner running the 2 minute offense, he said, basically, at the time, that Warner runs the 2 minute better and that's all it was, but deep down he knew there were skills left and that's why Warner got the job eventually. I think this is the same thing--Whis hates to bench a guy due to injury, but in the end, he's liking him some Skelton.

(Edit: I should add, when I talk about "unfairness" that I don't think anything will rattle this kid (Skelton). His mental toughness is off the charts. Really off the charts. He comes back in the 4th quarter, he comes back against the 9ers after being destroyed a mere few weeks before and helps us win the game, he's a beast mentally and I don't think anything like this will effect him.)

 

[Catfish]

Nice post man, well thought out and well written. I still think Kolb deserves the start though, even though I'm now officially on the Skelton koolaid list. I'm really liking what I see from Skelton but business-wise we have to start Kolb as soon as possible and see how he plays and reacts. The $$ we gave up for Kolb isn't as bad as many people--myself included--thought at first, but the fact is there are escalators in that contract and if we keep Kolb too long his contract will mushroom-cloud on us. Have to find out what he's got before then, unfortunately to the "unfairness" of Skelton.

I do however disagree with the fact that Skelton isn't getting any love, like he's being dissed all the time. Whisenhunt is playing him. We all know Whis isn't a touchy-feel-good type of guy, the most respect you're gonna get (like PP) is if he plays you.

I also think, unlike some people, that his comment after the Browns win, that Skelton missed a seam pass, that is an act of affection or admiration, coming from Whis. Really believe that. Those missed seam passes to the TE drive Whis nuts, he's mentioned it all year. If he didn't like the guy he could say yeah he played well for us, and just be all politically correct and blow it off, knowing Kolb is the guy. He didn't do that, he pointed out an area Skelton needs to improve or work on, and you don't do that if you dislike a dude. You only say that to someone you want to see grow and succeed. I honestly believe Whis loves him some Skelton. I really believe that.

Skelton is the future QB of our team, and I think Whis is seeing that. It honestly reminds me of his demeanor when the "battle" between Leinart and Warner was going on, when Whis had Warner running the 2 minute offense, he said, basically, at the time, that Warner runs the 2 minute better and that's all it was, but deep down he knew there were skills left and that's why Warner got the job eventually. I think this is the same thing--Whis hates to bench a guy due to injury, but in the end, he's liking him some Skelton.

(Edit: I should add, when I talk about "unfairness" that I don't think anything will rattle this kid (Skelton). His mental toughness is off the charts. Really off the charts. He comes back in the 4th quarter, he comes back against the 9ers after being destroyed a mere few weeks before and helps us win the game, he's a beast mentally and I don't think anything like this will effect him.)

Very good point Darkside, and frankly one that I had not considered. Whiz really does have a dilemma to deal with here and now. I don't believe that I will find fault with whatever way he takes to deal with it. Ownership might have a say in it, and want to know what you suggested. Is Kolb worth what the escalators will cause his salary to climb to if we keep him. Better to know than not to know in my opinion-----especially if there is money at stake that we could use in Free Agency or the Draft. Irrespective, I am still stoked for the upcoming off season to begin.

 

[conraddobler]

There is no dilema, let Kolb heal an entire offseason, anything that can make him this woozy this long means he needs mondo time to recover.

There is no reason to worry about his return this year, heal up, battle it out in camp and that's that.

 

[Duckjake]

We ARE a run first team

Good stuff except for this. A run first team doesn't throw the ball 46 times or average 3.0 yards per carry against a defense that is one of the two worst in the NFL against the run.

It probably is because of injuries but regardless we're not a run first team. Yet.

 

[Chopper0080]

Good stuff except for this. A run first team doesn't throw the ball 46 times or average 3.0 yards per carry against a defense that is one of the two worst in the NFL against the run.

It probably is because of injuries but regardless we're not a run first team. Yet.

We are not effective enough at running the ball to be a run first team.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We are not effective enough at running the ball to be a run first team.

Tell that to the Rams, and the myriad of other teams we have run on this year.

So we cannot run the ball, yet this team is winning dispite Skelton ? Pick a lane here man.

 

[desertdawg]

Tell that to the Rams, and the myriad of other teams we have run on this year.

So we cannot run the ball, yet this team is winning dispite Skelton ? Pick a lane here man.

5/5, made me LOL