Whiz is Toast

[Krangodnzr]

Green had ONE good draft his entire tenure here and even in that draft, he made THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE HISTORY OF THE TEAM PASSING ON TWO FRANCHISE QBS FOR A WR BECAUSE HE HAD JOSH MCCOWN AS HIS QB.

The fact that he gets credit for a great draft there when he screwed this team royally for 15 years by passing on Big Ben and Rivers cracks me up to no end.

100% Correct.

As great as Fitz is, Rivers is better. Search Krangthebrain + Philip Rivers and you will see I was a huge fan of the guy. Watched him since early on at his career at NC State, and I was 100% sure the guy was going to be great.

 

[desertdawg]

So yeah , Whiz is a better coach than Denny. Big whoop. I loved the superbowl as much as any one of you, but we are on a down ward spiral unless the Wiz will break his own habits.

 

[ajcardfan]

When Vince Tobin was being blamed for McGinnis' problems, even two to three years later, I always said until someone else put the Arizona Cardinals in the playoffs and won a game, he was the best coach ever.

Until someone else takes us to a Super Bowl, Whisenhunt is the greatest head coach this team has had. End results are all that matter.

 

[Shane]

So yeah , Whiz is a better coach than Denny. Big whoop. I loved the superbowl as much as any one of you, but we are on a down ward spiral unless the Wiz will break his own habits.

One bad season is not a downward spiral hater.

 

[desertdawg]

One bad season is not a downward spiral hater.

Not thinking he will get it fixed makes me the "hater" you speak of. I will always have a spot in my heart for him. :superbowl:

 

[Cheesebeef]

So yeah , Whiz is a better coach than Denny. Big whoop. I loved the superbowl as much as any one of you, but we are on a down ward spiral unless the Wiz will break his own habits.

I agree with this as well.

 

[Rats]

I also need to add that Dennis Green had more impact players in 2004(Fitz, Dansby, Dockett) then in Whiz's 4 drafts. Not saying Green is a better coach...let's get back to that...but he was a much much better judge of talent.

And if you want to compare coaching careers, Green didn't begin to have losing problems until he got here. In 10 years as Viking head coach, Green had 1 losing season in 10 and averaged 10 wins a season so if you Whiz pablum eaters want to compare bodies of work instead of just one team, Whiz couldn't carry Green's coffee in overall coaching performance. Just saying. I mean the man won 10 games with Jeff George as his QB for God's sakes. Let's give Whiz a couple more years before comparing.

Legendary.......

 

[Cheesebeef]

Legendary.......

how was he a much better judge of talent when he passed on Big Ben and Phillip Rivers because he had JOSH MCCOWN?! That was the BIGGEST NO BRAINER EVER.

Fitz was a BAD pick. Dansby and Dockett were good picks. The rest of his drafts were laughably bad. Antrelle Rolle at 9 and then playing him at CB where he was terrible? JJ Arrington in the second round? Never figuring out how to use Calvin Pace? Eric Green in the 3rd? Alex Stepanovich in the 4th? Matt Leinart who continually sucked and is a 3rd stringer with 10?

He drafted Dockett and Dansby... GREAT picks... everything else was pretty much a joke, ESPECIALLY Fitz considering how AWFUL our QB situation was and how GREAT the two QBs we passed on are.

 

[Evil Ash]

how was he a much better judge of talent when he passed on Big Ben and Phillip Rivers because he had JOSH MCCOWN?! That was the BIGGEST NO BRAINER EVER.

Fitz was a BAD pick. Dansby and Dockett were good picks. The rest of his drafts were laughably bad. Antrelle Rolle at 9 and then playing him at CB where he was terrible? JJ Arrington in the second round? Never figuring out how to use Calvin Pace? Eric Green in the 3rd? Alex Stepanovich in the 4th? Matt Leinart who continually sucked and is a 3rd stringer with 10?

He drafted Dockett and Dansby... GREAT picks... everything else was pretty much a joke, ESPECIALLY Fitz considering how AWFUL our QB situation was and how GREAT the two QBs we passed on are.

He didn't pass on Rivers or Big Ben because he had McCown. He was just obsessed with his former ballboy turned star receiver.

Not that it makes things any better. Its probably worse.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He didn't pass on Rivers or Big Ben because he had McCown. He was just obsessed with his former ballboy turned star receiver.

Not that it makes things any better. Its probably worse.

whatever the reason, it's a pick that set the franchise back for a decade.

 

[Rats]

how was he a much better judge of talent when he passed on Big Ben and Phillip Rivers because he had JOSH MCCOWN?! That was the BIGGEST NO BRAINER EVER.

Fitz was a BAD pick. Dansby and Dockett were good picks. The rest of his drafts were laughably bad. Antrelle Rolle at 9 and then playing him at CB where he was terrible? JJ Arrington in the second round? Never figuring out how to use Calvin Pace? Eric Green in the 3rd? Alex Stepanovich in the 4th? Matt Leinart who continually sucked and is a 3rd stringer with 10?

He drafted Dockett and Dansby... GREAT picks... everything else was pretty much a joke, ESPECIALLY Fitz considering how AWFUL our QB situation was and how GREAT the two QBs we passed on are.

I was refering to DG winning over 10 years, drafting good players, and even winning with Jeff George.. great stuff NJ. Whiz needed a great Kurt Warner just to get to 9 wins. He can't carry DG jock on coaching record talent eval, or anything really because he needed DG players to get to a Super Bowl. I will not debate with you handful that really refuse to see truth that stares you in the face and calls the rest of us idiots. It is a waste of time. You did the same thing on Josh Cheese, then came around and said he was the answer because he won games here as Qb , You did the same thing on Kurt Warner beating that "he is a washed out bum" drum. Guess what.....you were wrong again. And now you are saying drafting FITZ Was a joke??? You have lost it. So to sum up I am not going to engage anymore of the drivel that a few of you spew. It serves no purpose. This season was lost on CKW's bad choices we will see where he goes from here. My guess is on to the scrap heap that is NFL headcoaching after another poor draft and a dreadful season. But you go ahead and carry on blasting us idiots if it makes you feel better. The Pep boys have your back. Doesn't change anything.

 

[DoTheDew]

So yeah , Whiz is a better coach than Denny. Big whoop. I loved the superbowl as much as any one of you, but we are on a down ward spiral unless the Wiz will break his own habits.

I think everyone agrees that if Whiz doesn't change his ways from this season we're doomed. Problem is that some posters here are assuming Whiz won't change without really being able to know that.

All coaches face seasons like this. The good ones do make adjustments. The bad ones don't adjust and get canned. But only the stupid teams can a guy without giving him time to prove he's adjusted. Canning a guy before giving him a chance to prove himself is sort of like what we did with Leinart, actually. No one was happy with that so why do we advocate it with Whiz?

 

[azsportsfan01]

I hate to break this to you but that doesn't say a whole lot when you're saying your best player is your kick returner. Listen to yourselves please. That's like bragging that your punter is your only pro bowl player.

The Bears would disagree with you. Hester is one of their best players and is a mediocre receiver. He proves having a good special teams player can completely change a game.

 

[TJ]

I was refering to DG winning over 10 years, drafting good players, and even winning with Jeff George.. great stuff NJ. Whiz needed a great Kurt Warner just to get to 9 wins. He can't carry DG jock on coaching record talent eval, or anything really because he needed DG players to get to a Super Bowl. I will not debate with you handful that really refuse to see truth that stares you in the face and calls the rest of us idiots. It is a waste of time. You did the same thing on Josh Cheese, then came around and said he was the answer because he won games here as Qb , You did the same thing on Kurt Warner beating that "he is a washed out bum" drum. Guess what.....you were wrong again. And now you are saying drafting FITZ Was a joke??? You have lost it. So to sum up I am not going to engage anymore of the drivel that a few of you spew. It serves no purpose. This season was lost on CKW's bad choices we will see where he goes from here. My guess is on to the scrap heap that is NFL headcoaching after another poor draft and a dreadful season. But you go ahead and carry on blasting us idiots if it makes you feel better. The Pep boys have your back. Doesn't change anything.

You're trying to sell us on the fact that Denny did a far better job here than Whiz and you are wondering why some are calling you an idiot?

Youd have an easier time convincing us that 1+1 = 3

 

[desertdawg]

I think everyone agrees that if Whiz doesn't change his ways from this season we're doomed. Problem is that some posters here are assuming Whiz won't change without really being able to know that.

All coaches face seasons like this. The good ones do make adjustments. The bad ones don't adjust and get canned. But only the stupid teams can a guy without giving him time to prove he's adjusted. Canning a guy before giving him a chance to prove himself is sort of like what we did with Leinart, actually. No one was happy with that so why do we advocate it with Whiz?

I see your point and you don't have to bring Leinart in it for me. Whiz deserves his shot at coming back. I just looked at everything from a new point of view, and it scares me. I hope he goes all top rebound coach next year.
He believes in tanglebles, not adjustments.

 

[mojorizen7]

Who are the Pep boys?

 

[Rats]

You're trying to sell us on the fact that Denny did a far better job here than Whiz and you are wondering why some are calling you an idiot?

Youd have an easier time convincing us that 1+1 = 3

No, you are trying to couch the conversation as What DG did here in Az. I and NJ were talking about his entire career including MINN. You have reading comprehension problems....but carry on with your drivel as usual.

 

[O]

Who are the Pep boys?

.

 

[TJ]

No, you are trying to couch the conversation as What DG did here in Az. I and NJ were talking about his entire career including MINN. You have reading comprehension problems....but carry on with your drivel as usual.

I know and I chose to ignore that because this is about the AZ Cardinals. Doesnt matter what Denny ever did in Minny as it has no relevance to the topic of discussion. So why bring it up when you know it further deflates an already flat argument?

Go on a Vikings message board if you really want someone to listen to your diatribe about how Denny is so much better than Whiz.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was refering to DG winning over 10 years, drafting good players, and even winning with Jeff George.. great stuff NJ.

so, Denny didn't CONTINUALLY under-achieve losing multiple playoff games where he was consistently favored and home-field advantage? And you guys bring up this "He won with Jeff George!" So did June Freaking Jones. So what? Jeff George was a decent QB who made the playoffs with multiple teams.

Whiz needed a great Kurt Warner just to get to 9 wins. He can't carry DG jock on coaching record talent eval, or anything really because he needed DG players to get to a Super Bowl.

He took the exact same team that DG had and took them to the Super Bowl. On a coaching level, how that's not BETTER than DG who took the exact same players to the toilet is beyond me.

As to talent eval, I'll agree with you there. I'm not a fan of Wiz's talent evaluation. He needs a good GM to get him talent. But given that, he turned a hapless franchise into a winner. DG took a hapless franchise and turned them into... a hapless franchise... with better talent... the only ways that's possible is BAD coaching. The fact that you can't admit that is silly.
I will not debate with you handful that really refuse to see truth that stares you in the face and calls the rest of us idiots. It is a waste of time. You did the same thing on Josh Cheese, then came around and said he was the answer because he won games here as Qb ,[/QUOTE]

uh... no I didn't. I got sucked into Josh in pre-season and then said he sucked ass once the games started.

You did the same thing on Kurt Warner beating that "he is a washed out bum" drum. Guess what.....you were wrong again.

you're right. It was DG who made Kurt look like a bum. Once Wiz got here, you proved right, that Kurt did still have something left in the tank, but I guess Wi gets no credit for that as apparently DG gets no blame for how bad he looked while he had the reigns.

And now you are saying drafting FITZ Was a joke??? You have lost it.

Yes, passing on Big Ben and Phillip Rivers to take a WR when you had NO QUARTERBACK IS A JOKE. Plain and simple.

So to sum up I am not going to engage anymore of the drivel that a few of you spew. It serves no purpose. This season was lost on CKW's bad choices we will see where he goes from here. My guess is on to the scrap heap that is NFL headcoaching after another poor draft and a dreadful season.

could be.

But you go ahead and carry on blasting us idiots if it makes you feel better.

ok.

The Pep boys have your back.

reality check Rats. The overwhelming majority of the entire board has my back as you, Mitch, azsouth and Bobat, NJ are pretty much the only people caling for Wiz to be fired now and holding on to the fact that DG did anything here but fail miserably as a coach.

 

[DoTheDew]

I see your point and you don't have to bring Leinart in it for me. Whiz deserves his shot at coming back. I just looked at everything from a new point of view, and it scares me. I hope he goes all top rebound coach next year.
He believes in tanglebles, not adjustments.

I've actually been mildly encouraged by Whiz's comments since the season ended. He really sounds like he's owning up somewhat. Saying that he was too loyal to certain players and should have been more willing to replace them is akin to saying he needed to make more adjustments.

I hope for both his sake and the teams that he does change. If not, this thread will be appropriate in about a year. But for now, I think anyone who's rooting for him to be canned rather than for him to adjust is rooting for further setbacks for this team.

 

[Rats]

I know and I chose to ignore that because this is about the AZ Cardinals. Doesnt matter what Denny ever did in Minny as it has no relevance to the topic of discussion. So why bring it up when you know it further deflates an already flat argument?

Go on a Vikings message board if you really want someone to listen to your diatribe about how Denny is so much better than Whiz.

Well you seem to have no problem drumming up Whiz's limited past in Pittsburgh to support your weak arguements so I figure DG substantial record as an NFL headcoach should be considered. I simply support NJ view and gave him a

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, you are trying to couch the conversation as What DG did here in Az. I and NJ were talking about his entire career including MINN. You have reading comprehension problems....but carry on with your drivel as usual.

so if we're talking about Minnesota, why don't you respond to the fact that DG, while always having GREAT TALENT AND MULTIPLE PRO-BOWLERS on Minnesota ALWAYS underachieved, with a pathetic playoff record.

Again, DG was a good evaluator of talent, but his coaching left a TON to be desired as his teams continually underachieved both in Minnesota and here.

And riddle me this... if he's such a good coach... why hasn't he even SNIFFED an interview in the league since he was laughed out of it three years ago and is stuck coaching a piss-poor, under .500 semi-pro team?

I asked you this before and you brought up some non-sense about how he was a front runner for the 49er job, but you never gave one shred of proof of this at all and no one had even heard of this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well you seem to have no problem drumming up Whiz's limited past in Pittsburgh to support your weak arguements so I figure DG substantial record as an NFL headcoach should be considered. I simply support NJ view and gave him a

"substantial" record as a playoff failure and outright laughingstock with the Cardinals?

 

[TJ]

Well you seem to have no problem drumming up Whiz's limited past in Pittsburgh to support your weak arguements so I figure DG substantial record as an NFL headcoach should be considered. I simply support NJ view and gave him a

Because Whis was able to translate his experience into SUCCESS with this franchise

Denny translated his experience into FAILURE

The Law of Diminishing Returns is not on your side. The more you mention the Chili Dog, the lamer it gets