Who do you want as a new HC?

[Russ Smith]

Interesting thing on the coaching tree. Guess who Bears OC Ron Turner cites as being his "mentor"? Dennis Green, he worked for him at Northwestern and that's where he learned Green's version of the WCO that is the foundation for the offense the Bears run now under Turner.

I was kind of stunned when I read that in a paper since I would have never said the Bears run Green's offense myself, but that's what Ron Turner said, Green was his mentor.

 

[Southpaw]

Interesting thing on the coaching tree. Guess who Bears OC Ron Turner cites as being his "mentor"? Dennis Green, he worked for him at Northwestern and that's where he learned Green's version of the WCO that is the foundation for the offense the Bears run now under Turner.

I was kind of stunned when I read that in a paper since I would have never said the Bears run Green's offense myself, but that's what Ron Turner said, Green was his mentor.

I don't think it is fair to call it Green's WCO. He didn't invent it. Sid Gillman and Don Coryell were the roots. Not even Bill Walsh can take credit for it. He just used it, although he said Marc Trestmann understands it better than anyone left out there, including himself.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think it is fair to call it Green's WCO. He didn't invent it. Sid Gillman and Don Coryell were the roots. Not even Bill Walsh can take credit for it. He just used it, although he said Marc Trestmann understands it better than anyone left out there, including himself.

Green's version of the WCO. Green took what Walsh taught and modified it to fit his situations at Northwestern and then stanford. I wouldn't begin to call the offense the Vikings ran under Green, or the one the Colts run now, a WCO, but that's Green's offense.

But Ron Turner specifically said WCO which surprised me since I don't really consider the Bears to be a WCO team. It was in an article about him and Norv since they were facing each other last week.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not a HC, but assuming we make wholesale changes on the staff next year I'll throw in a name that might be interesting as a QB coach, or an offensive assistant....Jim Harbaugh. He's the head coach at San Diego this year in Division 1 AA. His dad was a longtime college coach, and of course he played QB in the NFL for ages.

I don't think he's ready to be an OC, but he's 41, played 15 years in the NFL, has been a college head coach for 3 seasons. His dad Jack is a longtime coach, his brother is a special teams coordinator with the Eagles, and even his brother in law is a coach, albeit basketball(Tom Crean at Marquette).

I'm not sure if he wants to be an NFL coach or not but I'd assume he might be interested and I think he's young enough to relate to Leinart, but experienced enough to be able to help him. I bring his name up because there's a rumor he might be the next OC at USC if they part ways with Lane Kiffin after the season.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Just give me Jeff Fisher and Norm Chow baby. Thats all I want.

If we cant get them pay out the nose for the Eagles D coord Jimmy Johnson that I wanted instead of Green.

Or if the Eagles lose their minds and get rid of Reid I would want him before anyone.

 

[BACH]

But you're leaving out Tom Coughlin (AFC Championship game with the Jags before continuing his success with the Giants), Sean Payton, Mike Nolan, Eric Mangini, etc. Yes, Belichick had a hard time with the Browns, but he had enough success with the Jets that the Pats were fighting hard for him.

Look at the Marty Schottenheimer coaching tree: Dom Capers, Bill Cowher, Jack Del Rio, Tony Dungy, Herman Edwards, Jim Haslett, Marvin Lewis, Mike Mularkey, and Lovie Smith. After seeing that, I really, really, really want this team to take a good, long look at Cam Cameron.

This is a fabulous article on NFL Coaching Trees.

True, I forgot Coughlin, but my point was that of the first 4 Parcell's assistent to become HCs,one was successful (Coughlin), one mediocre (Belichick) and two were terrible (Handley and Groh).

BUT Belichick (part deux) Weiss, Crennel etc. didn't get judged based on this pretty bad track record, and I don't believe Wiesenhunt should be judged on how Mularkey and LeBeau performed in Buffalo and Cincinnati.

 

[kerouac9]

True, I forgot Coughlin, but my point was that of the first 4 Parcell's assistent to become HCs,one was successful (Coughlin), one mediocre (Belichick) and two were terrible (Handley and Groh).

BUT Belichick (part deux) Weiss, Crennel etc. didn't get judged based on this pretty bad track record, and I don't believe Wiesenhunt should be judged on how Mularkey and LeBeau performed in Buffalo and Cincinnati.

I think it's too early to judge Weis or Crennel, but the results don't look good for either, do they? The Browns are in the running with the Cards for the #1 pick in the draft, and Crennel just fired his offensive coordinator after a season and a half. Personnally, I think it's too early to judge Mangini until he actually plays someone (he did just lose to the Browns). Further, Saban had a good run against a bunch of nobodies or good teams playing for nothing at the end of last season, but so far this season the Dolphins have been a disaster and his draft picks have failed to develop. Is it time to give up on the Belichick coaching tree? Not hardly. Is there enough concern to maybe re-think jumping on the bandwagon right away? I think so.

Back to Cowher: Schottenheimer has a long history of successful coaches from under him, but Cowher's development has one good coach (Marvin Lewis) and a group of guys that were failures to a greater or lesser extent when they moved on: Jim Haslett (a great DC again with the Rams, but a bad HC for the Saints), Dom Capers (one good season with the Panthers when they bought an NFC Championship game appearance and then a disaster), Mike Mularkey, Chan Gailey, Dick LeBeau. This isn't damning the Homgren coaching tree because it bore Marty Mornhinweg--it's a clear trend that Cowher's assistants fail to develop. I love Jack Del Rio, but his teams are incredibly inconsistent, and have been since he came to Jacksonville. Even then, he never actually worked for Cowher.

Do we really want to invest the Cardinals' future into a coaching tree with such a checkered past? Especially when there are better possibilities available? That seems to be the main question.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think it's too early to judge Weis or Crennel, but the results don't look good for either, do they? The Browns are in the running with the Cards for the #1 pick in the draft, and Crennel just fired his offensive coordinator after a season and a half. Personnally, I think it's too early to judge Mangini until he actually plays someone (he did just lose to the Browns). Further, Saban had a good run against a bunch of nobodies or good teams playing for nothing at the end of last season, but so far this season the Dolphins have been a disaster and his draft picks have failed to develop. Is it time to give up on the Belichick coaching tree? Not hardly. Is there enough concern to maybe re-think jumping on the bandwagon right away? I think so.

.

I don't know why but I think Crennel is doing a decent job. They have about as little talent as anybody and yet have been in all but one game this year(Cincy beat them by 17). They hung with Denver, they hung with the Saints and Ravens, they beat Oakland and the Jets. I think they'd beat us right now.

They're playing a young QB, they need a legit #1 RB(that is the team where Peterson or Lynch would be a godsend), but they have a terrific young TE, Edwards will be very good, the defense is getting better.

When you consider the ridiculous run of injuries they had at C and CB it's not surprising they're 2-5.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know why but I think Crennel is doing a decent job. They have about as little talent as anybody and yet have been in all but one game this year(Cincy beat them by 17). They hung with Denver, they hung with the Saints and Ravens, they beat Oakland and the Jets. I think they'd beat us right now.

They're playing a young QB, they need a legit #1 RB(that is the team where Peterson or Lynch would be a godsend), but they have a terrific young TE, Edwards will be very good, the defense is getting better.

When you consider the ridiculous run of injuries they had at C and CB it's not surprising they're 2-5.

Well, the offense mutinied on their offensive coordinator (another guy from the Belichik coaching tree), who was a close friend of Crennel's. I think that Cleveland is one of those teams that opponents don't want to show a lot against (you know that was the case with the Broncos), and so their scores tend to be a little closer. I think the same thing is going to start happening to the Cardinals. It's not like you saw a lot from the Packers; we just couldn't stop the run.

Crennel's in a rough spot with a really good division and a roster that still has to be built from the ground up. You can only hope that he'll be given time to turn that thing around. But I think that their record of non-blowouts is going to change in the next four-game stretch, where they play @ SD, @ ATL, and then host Pittsburgh and Cincy.

I like Charlie Frye, and I might be the last defender of KW2, but they have to find a way to score more than 15 points a game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, the offense mutinied on their offensive coordinator (another guy from the Belichik coaching tree), who was a close friend of Crennel's. I think that Cleveland is one of those teams that opponents don't want to show a lot against (you know that was the case with the Broncos), and so their scores tend to be a little closer. I think the same thing is going to start happening to the Cardinals. It's not like you saw a lot from the Packers; we just couldn't stop the run.

Crennel's in a rough spot with a really good division and a roster that still has to be built from the ground up. You can only hope that he'll be given time to turn that thing around. But I think that their record of non-blowouts is going to change in the next four-game stretch, where they play @ SD, @ ATL, and then host Pittsburgh and Cincy.

I like Charlie Frye, and I might be the last defender of KW2, but they have to find a way to score more than 15 points a game.

Agreed and that's an interesting theory about teh close games being due to teams not doing much against them. Denver has been doing that all year though there are Broncos fans suggesting they were playing possum until the playoffs because they thought they could win games playing vanilla anyways.

I haven't seen a ton of Cleveland and I do know they ran Carthon out of town, but I get the impression Crennel has them headed the right way.

Can't really say why, just a gut feel when I watch them play they seem to do things the "right way." ???

 

[kerouac9]

I like Crennel. I'd like to see him succeed, and I agree that he seems to be doing it "the right way." I just don't see it happening yet, and it has to be a concern when you're looking at coaching candidates.

That said, I think I advocating giving the Pats' OC an interview after all of 6 years' coaching experience in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

I like Crennel. I'd like to see him succeed, and I agree that he seems to be doing it "the right way." I just don't see it happening yet, and it has to be a concern when you're looking at coaching candidates.

That said, I think I advocating giving the Pats' OC an interview after all of 6 years' coaching experience in the NFL.

Either of you guys have any insight as to why Jerry Gray's stock dropped?

There was a time when he was considered a top candidate for any DC job and some were saying he'd be a good HC. Last I heard he was in Washington with Joe Gibbs.

 

[Pariah]

Either of you guys have any insight as to why Jerry Gray's stock dropped?

Ever since his stint as California Governor was botched so badly there at the end, I don't want him to run the Cards. Arnie, on the otherhand...

 

[Russ Smith]

Either of you guys have any insight as to why Jerry Gray's stock dropped?

There was a time when he was considered a top candidate for any DC job and some were saying he'd be a good HC. Last I heard he was in Washington with Joe Gibbs.

Well he did play at TExas.

 

[Duckjake]

Well he did play at TExas.

That on his resume could make him a multi-millionaire businessman or trial lawyer but I was wondering about his coaching career.

 

[CtCardinals78]

I think it would be a blessing if we could somehow get Fisher and he brings Norm Chow. Another good choice would be if they could convince Ken Wissenhunt to come to the Cardinals. The Raiders almost convinced him last off-season.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not sure why people think that Norm Chow can be an effective OC or HC. He dismantled his offense already at the Pro Level because Vince Young didn't get enough protection.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not sure why people think that Norm Chow can be an effective OC or HC. He dismantled his offense already at the Pro Level because Vince Young didn't get enough protection.

The other thing is Chow is not going to take another OC job, he's already rumored to be the next HC at Utah because he REALLY wants to be a HC. He took the OC job with the Titans because he couldn't get a HC job and figured taking an NFL OC job would help.

Regarding his current job it's impossible to judge him this year because his team basically ignored his advice(and his coach) and took young and are now asking him to figure out a way to run an NFL offense with Young. Vince is doing fairly well, but he's so "non traditional" that it's very hard for a pass happy OC like Chow. I have a pretty strong feeling if Chow had known when he took that job that he'd be coaching Young in year 2, and that they would pass on Leinart and Cutler, he wouldn't have taken the job.

 

[Duckjake]

I have a pretty strong feeling if Chow had known when he took that job that he'd be coaching Young in year 2, and that they would pass on Leinart and Cutler, he wouldn't have taken the job.

I would have seen it as the ultimate challenge for an offensive coordinator and looked forward to it.

But then I get up 16 Sundays a year and look forward to watching Cardinal football.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Petrino. Period.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would have seen it as the ultimate challenge for an offensive coordinator and looked forward to it.

But then I get up 16 Sundays a year and look forward to watching Cardinal football.

It's like hiring Paul Westhead and then telling him you want to be a halfcourt team though.

Chow is a passing guru, he's developed so many passing QB's it's stunning, all those guys at BYU down through Palmer and Leinart. Maybe the TItans felt who better to refine Vince as a passer, but if you're him and you tell them NOT to draft the guy, and they still do, that's got to tell you how little they value your input?

 

[jefftheshark]

Norm Chow. I liked him before and I like him still.

But I liked the Denny Green hire, so perhaps I shouldn't be allowed an opinion.

The Shark

 

[earthsci]

From the look of things right now we need someone that will be no nonsense.

 

[kerouac9]

Norm Chow. I liked him before and I like him still.

But I liked the Denny Green hire, so perhaps I shouldn't be allowed an opinion.

The Shark

Steve Spurrier
June Jones

These guys sure made their gimmick offenses work in the NFL. Chow's offense was a failure in Tennessee last season, and continues to be a failure unless they hand the ball to their runningbacks 30+ times a game. Why not hire Mike Leach or Urban Meyer to bring their pass-happy, gimmick offenses to the NFL?

And you'll have to give him almost complete personnel power to get them to the barren wasteland of Arizona Football. Does that sound good to you? Really?

Gimmick offenses do not work in the NFL. Norm Chow would be a disaster as an NFL head coach, as he's been a disaster as an NFL offensive coordinator. What has Tennessee's offense been ranked the last two seasons?

 

[jefftheshark]

Steve Spurrier
June Jones

These guys sure made their gimmick offenses work in the NFL. Chow's offense was a failure in Tennessee last season, and continues to be a failure unless they hand the ball to their runningbacks 30+ times a game. Why not hire Mike Leach or Urban Meyer to bring their pass-happy, gimmick offenses to the NFL?

And you'll have to give him almost complete personnel power to get them to the barren wasteland of Arizona Football. Does that sound good to you? Really?

Gimmick offenses do not work in the NFL. Norm Chow would be a disaster as an NFL head coach, as he's been a disaster as an NFL offensive coordinator. What has Tennessee's offense been ranked the last two seasons?

Tennessee has a better record than us (not saying much, but still...) and they have been competive in some big games (Indy comes to mind). But Chow has had to use personnel which do not come close to maximizing his schemes. We have the personnel here that could.

And maybe it is time to get a little creative. Lord knows doing what we have been doing the last several decades hasn't worked.

The Shark