Jones yes....Manuel no. Someone will gamble that accuracy can be taught.
Jones is QB 7 at this point so nothing before the third and likely the 4th. Had an awful combine
With Smith to KC, who takes Geno?
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Jones yes....Manuel no. Someone will gamble that accuracy can be taught.
Jones is QB 7 at this point so nothing before the third and likely the 4th. Had an awful combine
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Here is what one draft site (Walter Football) felt about Landry Jones performance in the Senior Bowl game:
Landry Jones was easily the worst quarterback at the Senior Bowl, which is saying a lot because most of them stunk up Mobile. Jones did not look like he belonged in the NFL. He frequently panicked in the pocket, even when there weren't any pass-rushers there. He would stop looking downfield and either take a sack or toss a short checkdown.
Jones, who finished 3-of-10 for a laughable 16 yards, could go undrafted. He was that bad. I think his experience will ultimately save him on Draft Day, but his new team won't get anything better than a career backup.
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red desert
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Sure. Not a crazy take on Jones at all. That said...
Cam Newton was going to fall to the bottom half of the first round many scout opined... and Jones is certainly no Newton. In fact, Jones may very well be a bust. However, after most top tier Qbs in this draft are gone, which will be by mid second, Jones will be selected by a Qb needy team. No later than last pick in second. Happens every year.
Jetstream Green
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Geno crumbles under pressure, that is why I do not care for him. If Card's staff think they can fix that, then he does have all the tools to be a legit starter and do well. He can throw deep and can do it well and is accurate with good arm strength, he just gets sloppy when the pocket is not perfect.
seesred
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Everyone has an opinion on the board,on the air,on the tube! He is strong,his passes are to high. He is scared, he is strong,he has his eyes on the reciever at all times. This guy loves him, this guy thinks the second round only, the other says teams will trade up to get him.
All players are gambles. Some work out, some hang on, some are let go. I like the idea of Smith he appears at ease in the pocket and you can't argue with a 70% completion number. He can run. IMO if he is there at 7 and we need a QB who we can mold I take him.''
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All players are gambles. Some work out, some hang on, some are let go. I like the idea of Smith he appears at ease in the pocket and you can't argue with a 70% completion number. He can run. IMO if he is there at 7 and we need a QB who we can mold I take him.''
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CardsSunsDbacks
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Can't agree with this statement. Does he loft a lot of his deep passes? Maybe so, but he is certainly capable of throwing the ball deep while throwing it on a line.
Actually here is a link to a throw he made against Baylor this year. It is the last throw in the video and the ball travels more than 50 yards in the air while never going more than about 15 feet high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhGkRA4b32Q
Reddog
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Thats the kind of thinking that got us into the mess with Lienart.
Cbus cardsfan
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I've read a couple reports that have said Manuel was one of top, if not the top, performers for QB's at the combine. They said the scouts really like his release, his deep accuracy, and the way the ball jumped off his hand. I'm not a huge Manuel fan but he has had the best post season of all the QB's in the draft.
Totally_Red
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I truly believe reaching for Geno at #7 overall is a gamble. And I don't believe the Cardinals are in position to gamble this draft. For one, we ONLY have seven choices and have limited salary cap space. We rolled the dice with Kevin Kolb and lost.
I hope we get a very good player (Warmack, Fisher, Jarvis Jones) at #7 overall and don't roll the dice with Geno Smith. He's good kid, but he's just NOT worth a top ten pick according to MOST draft pundits.
I hope we get a very good player (Warmack, Fisher, Jarvis Jones) at #7 overall and don't roll the dice with Geno Smith. He's good kid, but he's just NOT worth a top ten pick according to MOST draft pundits.
HoodieBets
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Here are a few facts I needed to point out as someone who watched him a lotalong with everyone else since Im a big gambler
1) He had the best deep ball in college football. He didnt need to throw it as much as Glennon or Barkley but when he did it was a thing of beauty.
2) He is not a pistol or option QB and he said so himself a week ago in an interview. He said he is a pocket passer and that is exactly what BA wants.
3) He is excellent at reading defenses, he made more audibles and line adjustments than any QB I saw this year, he was like peyton manning at Tenn...although I will admit he needs work on his progressions. He reads the defense at the line and knows who he wants to throw to.
4)People who have coached Geno said he goes above and beyond in the film room and he is the hardest of workers.
I would love to have him and think he could be a top 10 QB in his 2nd year.
1) He had the best deep ball in college football. He didnt need to throw it as much as Glennon or Barkley but when he did it was a thing of beauty.
2) He is not a pistol or option QB and he said so himself a week ago in an interview. He said he is a pocket passer and that is exactly what BA wants.
3) He is excellent at reading defenses, he made more audibles and line adjustments than any QB I saw this year, he was like peyton manning at Tenn...although I will admit he needs work on his progressions. He reads the defense at the line and knows who he wants to throw to.
4)People who have coached Geno said he goes above and beyond in the film room and he is the hardest of workers.
I would love to have him and think he could be a top 10 QB in his 2nd year.
The Cards take him.
Solar7
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That's a hugely unfair comparison. Matt Leinart was almost universally considered to be a fantastic spot at that pick, and if we hadn't taken him there, he probably would have gone one spot later. We didn't "reach" for him at all.
Totally_Red
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It's encouraging that Steve Keim was said to have Jay Cutler rated higher than Leinart.
Noted. If he's a bust, I'm sure that statement will never be used to discredit any other post you make on here.
I say the odds that he will become a very good QB are 50/50. That is just the way it usually happens with a #7 - #10 pick. He could also be an all pro in a year or two. The need is so great that this is not a reach at all. If we do not get him then we need to hopefully get Wilson in round 2. In any case we need to draft a QB with #1 or #2,
Totally_Red
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Sorry I want better than 50-50 odds at #7 overall. Why not take Wilson or Bray in round 2 or 3 and add a very good offensive lineman in the first?
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HoodieBets
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I don't care how good the line is without a QB you don't win.
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I really want Bray in the 3rd but I think a team jumps on him earlier. Would rather trade a 2nd for Mallett and draft pieces to surround him.
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The thing that scares me the most about taking Smith at number 7 is that it's a short step from there to convincing yourself you should trade up to get him. I could live with the gamble of taking him that early but if we have to do it at a premium it could set us back several years.
Steve
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No not really.
Trading up means you lose something.
If he does go before us then so be it.....that just means another quality player will be available.
But if he is there at 7 that means that many of the non-QB quality players are gone. If BA likes Geno then to me it's a no brainer at 7. If he doesn't then hopefully he has a plan B that doesn't involve any of our current QB's....otherwise we could be screwed.
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Unless I've misunderstood you, it appears I didn't make my point clearly. I'm concerned that they will pay the premium to move up and get him. QB is by far the most important position and it is by far our greatest position of need. If they feel he is the answer at 7, it isn't too much of a stretch to see them trading up with someone like Detroit to stave off a move by Buffalo or trading even higher if they start thinking Chip Kelly is going to grab him.
Steve
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I have watched every game of this kids at WVU. Here are my thoughts, take them for what they are worth
1. Highly accurate...proved it durng 3 years as a starter and at the combine, and will prove it again at his pro day. this shouldnt be debatable at this point
2. Athletic
3. above average arm. I ve seen him make all the throws including the deep out from the other hash.
4. gym rat - Holgersen has said he is in the film room more than any other QB he's coached. Loves to practice.
5. Contrary to many peoples belief, he is smart. He was in charge of the line and WR calls AND he had the option to swith run/pass or call a completly different play. Holgersen mentioned that he gave Geno more freedom because he trusts his judgement. Compare his pre-snap chnages to Nassib or Glennon who had little freedom at the line.
6. WVU did run bubble screens and quick hitches a lot, but go look at his TD passes. 50% of them were from 20+ yards out and his passes to Bailey on the deep slant got both of them a lot of TD's
7. He was hampered a lot by the offenisve line at WVU. WVU could not run the ball consistently (see the move of Tavon Austin to RB late in the year) and teams got pressure on him rushing 3 or 4 guys. Someone mentioned the 2 losses to Kstate and Oklahoma St. They both rushed 3 guys and dropped 8 into coverage. Great game plan, and WVU couldnt run on a 3 man d-line. Geno was facing double and triple coverage against his receivers.
8. Eluding to #7, the knock on him, and deservedly so, was that he failed to tuck and run in those situations. Had he done that it would have required those teams to respect the run and opened up the passing game. In addition, he tends to hold onto the ball too long. If in trouble he will use his feet to move around the pocket, but he is always looking to pass first instead of getting out of the pocket or throwing it away. If you watched the bowl game, this lead to 2 fumbles.
Keep in mind, he only played in the BIG 12 one year. His numbers in 2011 and 2010 were against Big East defense who tend to be pretty stout. The kid has some warts but his upside is much greater and would be a steal at #7
I think had he been in the draft last year he would have knocked Tannyhill out of the #8 spot and 3rd QB taken. If you think about it that way, #7 is not a reach. I do understand the arguement to take an offensive linemen or DE at that spot and grab a QB in round 2, but the drop-off to me is so dire between Smith and Barkley or Wilson that you have to grab him at #7.
1. Highly accurate...proved it durng 3 years as a starter and at the combine, and will prove it again at his pro day. this shouldnt be debatable at this point
2. Athletic
3. above average arm. I ve seen him make all the throws including the deep out from the other hash.
4. gym rat - Holgersen has said he is in the film room more than any other QB he's coached. Loves to practice.
5. Contrary to many peoples belief, he is smart. He was in charge of the line and WR calls AND he had the option to swith run/pass or call a completly different play. Holgersen mentioned that he gave Geno more freedom because he trusts his judgement. Compare his pre-snap chnages to Nassib or Glennon who had little freedom at the line.
6. WVU did run bubble screens and quick hitches a lot, but go look at his TD passes. 50% of them were from 20+ yards out and his passes to Bailey on the deep slant got both of them a lot of TD's
7. He was hampered a lot by the offenisve line at WVU. WVU could not run the ball consistently (see the move of Tavon Austin to RB late in the year) and teams got pressure on him rushing 3 or 4 guys. Someone mentioned the 2 losses to Kstate and Oklahoma St. They both rushed 3 guys and dropped 8 into coverage. Great game plan, and WVU couldnt run on a 3 man d-line. Geno was facing double and triple coverage against his receivers.
8. Eluding to #7, the knock on him, and deservedly so, was that he failed to tuck and run in those situations. Had he done that it would have required those teams to respect the run and opened up the passing game. In addition, he tends to hold onto the ball too long. If in trouble he will use his feet to move around the pocket, but he is always looking to pass first instead of getting out of the pocket or throwing it away. If you watched the bowl game, this lead to 2 fumbles.
Keep in mind, he only played in the BIG 12 one year. His numbers in 2011 and 2010 were against Big East defense who tend to be pretty stout. The kid has some warts but his upside is much greater and would be a steal at #7
I think had he been in the draft last year he would have knocked Tannyhill out of the #8 spot and 3rd QB taken. If you think about it that way, #7 is not a reach. I do understand the arguement to take an offensive linemen or DE at that spot and grab a QB in round 2, but the drop-off to me is so dire between Smith and Barkley or Wilson that you have to grab him at #7.
Agree 100%. If we take Smith at #7 I won't complain one bit. If we trade up to get him because we're afraid someone else will, I'll be mad.
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Geno will go somewhere from #6-#9. Lombardi doesn't like Weeden and Alex Smith is off the market. I don't wanna trade up but if we do it'll be with Detroit IMO. According to the value chart we'd give our 3rd and we'd get their 5th to move up two spots. That's actually not too bad if Arians and Co are 100% sold on Geno.
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