Would You Prefer Okur or Blount?

[George O'Brien]

In another thread it is stated that Kobe's trial is not expected to start until late July or August. Unless something dramatic happens on this front, I think it time to accept the fact that Kobe is not coming to Phoenix.

I suppose bringing this up will generate another flurry of Marion and the lottery pick for T-Mac trade discussions. The only guys I would NOT include in such a trade are:

Stoudemire
Johnson
Lampe
Vujanic
Barbosa (maybe)

In case, that trade would not eliminate the Suns need to get a big man. I don't think that Dampier and Camby are likely to be worth the price and I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to pay for career backups like Foyle and Etan Thomas. Sheed Wallace is likely to stay in Detroit and Divac is likely to stay with the Kings.

This limits the discussion to two guys who are likely to be availabe at around or just above mid cap: Mehmet Okur and Mark Blount. Here are their comparitive stats:

Mehmet Okur
Detroit Pistons
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 249
From: Turkey

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 9.6
RPG 5.9
APG 1.0
SPG .51
BPG .89
FG% .463
FT% .775
3P% .375
MPG 22.3

Mark Blount
Boston Celtics
Position: C
Height: 7-0 Weight: 250
College: Pittsburgh '99
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 10.3
RPG 7.2
APG .9
SPG .98
BPG 1.29
FG% .566
FT% .719
3P% .000
MPG 29.3

The most obvious advantage Okur has is his outside shooting. He hit 18-48 three point shots and is considered a good jump shooter. The big advantages for Blount are his rebounding, shot blocking, and defense.

Chad Ford in his NBA Insider article last Monday wrote:

Blount out in Boston? Mark Blount had 21 points and 13 rebounds in the Celtics' loss on Sunday. Some in Boston are now arguing that he's the best Celtic big man since Robert Parrish.

Mark Blount
Center
Boston Celtics

Too bad for the Celtics that it looks like Blount is gone this summer. Blount is an unrestricted free agent and all signs point to him bolting the Celtics. Among his possible destinations? Miami (where he has a summer home and the Heat have a big void in the middle), Philly (where his favorite head coach, Jim O'Brien, has landed) and Atlanta (they can outbid everyone else).
Both Miami and Philly have their full mid-level exception at their disposal and could offer him a six-year deal starting at roughly $5 million per season. That's a huge pay raise over the $900,000 he makes this year. Danny Ainge is saying publicly that the team will re-sign him (the Celtics can offer him the same deal), but internally they are preparing for the worst.

In a year when little went right for the Celtics, Blount's emergence as both a low-post rebounder and scorer has been the highlight of the year. Blount averaged 13.5 ppg and 10.3 rpg since the All-Star break. Without him the Celtics will have just Raef LaFrentz and second-year big man Kendrick Perkins manning the middle. There aren't any real free agents out there who could duplicate what Blount did this year. The draft, while loaded with big men, doesn't have anyone in the Celtics' range who could make an immediate impact.

Hoops Hype describes him as "One of the most improved players in the NBA. Has developed and offensive game to go with his good shot blocking and rebounding skills. Decent mid range shot. Good mobility and athleticism for his size. A hard worker."

Signing Blount would substantially improve the Suns interior defense without giving up much on offense. Assuming that Blount is available in the "just above" mid cap range, I think he would be a good addition and much better than Okur.

 

[sunsfn]

I would like the suns to sign Blount this summer. He is the best free agent center available for what we need. (rebounding and blocks)

I hope they can sign Blount, sign Vujanic, draft a big man, maybe Beidrens or whoever they think is the best big man in the draft, then let these guys play together for a while and see what happens. In another year with Amare, (2) JJ, (2) Barbosa, (1) Zarko, (1) CJ, (2) Marion & Jake along with Blount & Vujanic, they should have a pretty good team, make the playoffs and have a chance to go further than the first round with this team.

I do not want the suns to sign Kobe!
I am not sure I want to trade Marion and 1st and?? for T-Mac.
I know for sure I do not want to see the suns trade Marion, JJ, 1st and ??
for T-Mac. That is too much to pay.
McGrady is a heck of a player, and if the suns make a trade for him and do not give too much in return he will certainly help this team. McGrady is a team player and just wants to win, unlike the selfish Kobe.

As far as white, if he does not go to Charlotte, he could go somewhere before the end of the trade deadline. I do not see any way they can get rid of Eisley unless they give up to much. (major problem)
However, if they can sign Blount then they may give up their first pick to get rid of Eisley, but not to get rid of White.

 

[slinslin]

I wouldn't be really happy with either.

The only center FA that I am interessted in is Marcus Camby and to some point Erick Dampier.

Lampe could be better than Okur by next season.

And Blount is just average for a high price probably. I would rather sign a cheap one like possibly Foyle or Gadzuric.

Or maybe Etan Thomas.

 

[George O'Brien]

I wouldn't be really happy with either.

The only center FA that I am interessted in is Marcus Camby and to some point Erick Dampier.

Both are injury prone and at least two to three million more expensive.

Lampe could be better than Okur by next season.

I agree. I keep reading news pieces about the Suns being interested in Okur, but I don't get it.

And Blount is just average for a high price probably.

How high is too high? I think he is worth a bit more than mid cap.

I would rather sign a cheap one like possibly Foyle or Gadzuric.
Or maybe Etan Thomas.

How cheap. Foyle made $4.4 million last season. Would you match?

 

[slinslin]

Foyle also missed most of the year and if Golden State keeps Dampier , Foyle will probably move and who knows how much he can get.

 

[George O'Brien]

Foyle also missed most of the year and if Golden State keeps Dampier , Foyle will probably move and who knows how much he can get.

It all comes down to price. In terms of talent (not related to price or health) my ranking is:

Dampier
Camby
Blount
Okur
Foyle
Etan Thomas
Gadzuric
Ostertag

I haven't decided where to put Divac on this list.

 

[slinslin]

In terms of talent Camby is certainly far ahead of everyone on that list. At least by a mile.

 

[George O'Brien]

In terms of talent Camby is certainly far ahead of everyone on that list. At least by a mile.

HoopsHype's profile is:

A power forward or a center?... Excellent shot blocker coming from the
weak side... You won't see many guys that tall running the floor the
way he does... Can score on the fast break and after getting the offensive
rebound... Able to hit the occasional mid-range shot... No low post
moves... A lot of heart... A lot of injuries.

 

[elindholm]

Yes, Camby should surely be first on the list in terms of talent. And I would put Foyle above Okur.

Okur averaged barely half an attempt per game from three-point range this season. He is a more useful weapon from 18 feet or so, but to overrate him for his "outside shooting" is a mistake many writers seem to be making, in my opinion.

I'm holding out some hope for Dampier, because I think if the Suns were to sign him, it would show that they are convinced he has resolved his attitude problem.

 

[hcsilla]

I do think that Okur is more talented than Blount and Camby is a better player than Dampier.

In terms of talent:

Camby
Dampier
Okur
Blount

Camby and Dampier are out because they are too expensive and/or injury prone.

Offer a 4-5 mil. contract for Okur! Of he accepts, OK. If not sign Foyle or E. Thomas for 2 mil. If either of them accepts, OK.

Anyway sign a good coach and improve anyone and set some teamplays.

 

[karesk]

Hi to all,
I am following this forum for a while but I haven't posted before. I am a Turkish basketball fan and my favorite team in the NBA is Kings. However, I would describe myself as a basketball fan first and I follow a lot of team's boards. I am not saying this as a complement but I think the Suns fans in here and phxsuns.net are pretty knowledgeable and they are two of my favorite boards even if I don't post at all.
Back to the subject, I think Okur would really be a good fit in Phoenix. I think he would really compliment Amare Stoudamire's power game. Okur can play inside and out, he is a really capable offensive player (he has very good footwork and has improved his post-game this year) and his defense is not bad at all. Especially he is a good rebounder. If you look at those stats above he is a better per minute rebounder than Blount and he got those stats in a much better rebounding team in Detroit. Of course his outside shooting is a big plus but he didn't use that much this year as somebody pointed out because Larry Brown wants him to play inside. Anyways, I don't know if I am home-cooking here but I think he is a better player than Blount and a much better fit for Phoenix. I hope he signs here next year.
Peace.

 

[sunsfn]

I have thought all along that Blount is as good as Okur.

That is after this year. He improved immensely and is a defensive center that found his offense this year.

However, I did not watch Detroit much this year and maybe Okur has improved his defense also.
I realize Okur has offense but did not think his defense was very good.

I will go look at his stats now and compare.

What do others think here think about Blount and Okur? which one is a better player?

 

[Joe Mama]

Half the teams in the league would be willing to give their mid-level exception for Okur. It's going to take more than that to get him here. I'll bet he gets a contract starting at $6 million from somebody this summer. He would be a fantastic fit in Utah's system. I would be surprised if they don't throw a ton of money his way.

I agree that it's very possible Lampe will be as good or better than Okur next season anyhow. I think both he and Cabarkapa are going to look much better next year.

Joe Mama

 

[PhxGametime]

Is Gadzuric a Free Agent?

 

[sunsfn]

Is Gadzuric a Free Agent?

No, not until another year.

 

[slinslin]

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee.htm

he is

 

[PhxGametime]

How much can Bucks offer Gadzuric and how much would it cost for Suns to sign him? I wouldn't want a big minutes Center - with Lampe developing. I was interested in Stromile Swift but he will want minutes - Gadzuric is athletic and has decent stats per 48, just don't know how much it'd cost.

 

[elindholm]

In another thread it is stated that Kobe's trial is not expected to start until late July or August. Unless something dramatic happens on this front, I think it time to accept the fact that Kobe is not coming to Phoenix.

I've agreed with you all along that Bryant is unlikely to come to Phoenix, but what difference does the timing of his trial make? Do you think he'll no longer opt out? My guess is that he will. So that means that someone, even if it's the Lakers, will sign him while his trial is pending. Do you think that the pending trial will eliminate Phoenix's interest in him? I don't. Yes, it would be a PR nightmare if he were to be convicted right after they signed him, and it would screw up their cap situation, but I don't think anyone believes there's a chance he'll be convicted.

I just don't see how this changes anything.

 

[elindholm]

I have no interest in Gadzuric. He is an unskilled hustle player whose effectiveness diminishes once opponents start getting serious about defense. He is in the same category as Chris Andersen or Chris Mihm.

 

[George O'Brien]

I have been assuming that Okur and Blount would get around $6 million to start. Reports are that Utah is very interested in Okur, but the Pistons will do what they can to keep him (depending on what Sheed asks for). All the rumors about Blount have been about him going to Miami or Philly for MLE.

One of the arguments for signing Foyle is that he might be less expensive (and for a shorter period) and would not disrupt the Suns plans to groom Lampe to be their high post center. Etan Thomas presents the same issue, but since he is an RFA, a low offer is immediately matched by Washington.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

and it would screw up their cap situation, but I don't think anyone believes there's a chance he'll be convicted.

Actually, I am pretty sure it would NOT affect the cap situation.

It is either in the CBA itself, or worded in every NBA contract, that a player's contract may be terminated for several reasons. Two of those reason's are, unable to be attend games (ie in jail) and being convicted of a felony.

Once the contract is voided, obviously the team is no longer on the hook for the money. However, unlike buyouts and waivers, that player's contract is immediately cleared from the books.

Look at Vin Baker's situation as a precedent. When Boston cut him, his salary came off the cap. However, since they renegotiated on some sort of a buyout, part of his salary is back on Boston's cap.

I am almost 100% sure of this, which is why I find it so funny that people think his trial will scare off teams. It might from a PR issue (although unlikely), but certainly wouldn't from a financial standpoint.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think the Suns will avoid pursuing any particular center because of possible interference with Lampe's development. We don't know enough about Lampe to give up on him yet, but for the Suns to steer clear of (for instance) Okur just because he and Lampe are potentially similar players would be a grave error.

They should steer clear of Okur because he'll be overpriced, but that's different.

 

[elindholm]

grahamcrackr --

It's too annoying on this computer to cut and paste, but regarding the cap situation issue with a convicted Bryant...

What I meant was it would screw up their FA options for this summer, because by the time Bryant is convicted, it would be too late to go after anyone else. But you're right that the long-term financial implications wouldn't be problematic. Basically the result would be the same as if the Suns sat on their money this summer, which is indeed what some on this board are hoping for anyway.

My opinion, though, is that it would be better to add a significant player than to come away with nothing. Strike while the iron is hot, in other words.

 

[hcsilla]

I have no interest in Gadzuric. He is an unskilled hustle player whose effectiveness diminishes once opponents start getting serious about defense. He is in the same category as Chris Andersen or Chris Mihm.

Mihm is a fine offensive player who is soft and inconsistent too.

 

[George O'Brien]

grahamcrackr --

It's too annoying on this computer to cut and paste, but regarding the cap situation issue with a convicted Bryant...

What I meant was it would screw up their FA options for this summer, because by the time Bryant is convicted, it would be too late to go after anyone else. But you're right that the long-term financial implications wouldn't be problematic. Basically the result would be the same as if the Suns sat on their money this summer, which is indeed what some on this board are hoping for anyway.

My opinion, though, is that it would be better to add a significant player than to come away with nothing. Strike while the iron is hot, in other words.

I would not be happy if the Suns bribed the Bobcats to take White, and then did nothing with the cap space. The Suns need improvement, even if it is just depth.