Would You Prefer Okur or Blount?

[PhxGametime]

I have no interest in Gadzuric. He is an unskilled hustle player whose effectiveness diminishes once opponents start getting serious about defense. He is in the same category as Chris Andersen or Chris Mihm.

I might be confused but I would want Gadzuric for defense, athleticism, size, ability to run court, shot-blocking ability - not offense. At a cheap cost would be a decent pick-up - I do agree with most of this message but "whose effectiveness diminishes once opponents start getting serious about defense." - he's not an offensive player and I compare him to a Voskuhl with shot-blocking ability and I know you're high on Voskuhl...

 

[George O'Brien]

I might be confused but I would want Gadzuric for defense, athleticism, size, ability to run court, shot-blocking ability - not offense. At a cheap cost would be a decent pick-up - I do agree with most of this message but "whose effectiveness diminishes once opponents start getting serious about defense." - he's not an offensive player and I compare him to a Voskuhl with shot-blocking ability and I know you're high on Voskuhl...

I would look for someone with a bit stronger overall game like Foyle and Etan Thomas than Gadzuric. In any case, Gazuric is not available:

Dan Gadzuric .......... 8/29/02 3 minimum t-opt '05

I think he signed an extension that is not yet reflected by HoopsHype.

 

[hcsilla]

You can sign an extension if you are under contract for 3 or more years.

He may have signed a 3-year rookie contract (with a 3rd-year team option) as a 2nd round pick which I highy doubt that he did.

 

[elindholm]

Bball_31:

I don't think Gadzuric really qualifies in terms of "size." He is tall enough but doesn't look all that strong. I am sure he would get pushed around by Western Conference big men. His blocks are on help defense against backup players. When the Bucks have tried to put him in the starting lineup the last two years, it has not been successful.

I would be happy to see the Suns upgrade their center position; it's not like I think Voskuhl is great or anything. But I have no confidence that Gadzuric would be any upgrade at all.

 

[PhxGametime]

I was once a big NBA fan (with Phoenix Suns being my team) but I consider myself a Suns fan now and I don't watch games outside of Suns - and I do agree about the upgrade comment - asking Gadzuric's price range, I was thinking of having Draft Pick, 2 Free Agents (possibly Gadzuric), and maybe Vujanic but I almost forgot about McDyess. Outside of chance for Kobe - I'd like to add 3-4 role players with potential: Vujanic, Draft Pick, Free Agents, or a trade, etc. I believe Suns can win championship, even without Kobe - if we add the right talent. Possible role players with potential to expand game...

 

[Errntknght]

If we expand our thinking a little bit to include a backup PF as well as a center this throws a little different light on some of the candidates. Etan Thomas, for instance, isn't a good fit as a center but he's a great fit as a backup PF - he's a brute on the low block and has a decent offensive game. On the defensive end he guards the other team's power player whether PF or C. For limited minutes he could play alongside Amare (backing up C some, in other words) as the latter is playing out of the low post a fair amount these days. So whenever Amare is resting - either on the bench or drifting out a ways - Etan is battering the opponents low post defenders... softening them up.

He'd also be helpful to Lampe in practice - learning how to defend guys down low who are stronger than him and have some offensive game. Without someone like him on the team Lampe is only going to learn that in games - not an ideal situation. He might even help Jake some.

In general he's the kind of player the Suns rarely have and often sorely need. Think a young, more athletic Jahidi with a decent offensive game.

I don't see getting Etan as ruling out getting a center from FA. I don't have anything to add about Okur, but I agree with Eric that we shouldn't avoid him because his game is similar to Lampe's. In fact, I think it is another reason to get him... Lampe is a younger than the rest of the core and if we get a starting C who's game is very different than Lampe's that could push the whole offensive concept away from running the high post, making Lampe a misfit.

 

[Mad Psyentist]

Id like to share what I think the suns should look for this summer.

1. I think we have too many projects on this team that we're trying to develop. I like our projects in Lampe, Zarko, Barbosa, Casey, and Vujanic but the reality is that having them making up our team is thinning out our bench. Sure Outlaw and Penny weren't the greatest players *wink*, but they did a good job anchoring our bench and consistently contributing. I have a hard time getting a read on how good our core really is when a better bench could won us a lot more games.

The problem with having so many projects is that we dont know how long its going to take for them to develop and theres no guarentee that it will happen by next season or if ever. While theyve been with us, Ive see too much inconsistency with 10 pts one night and a goose egg the next couple of nights. We cant bury them on our bench and hope they develop either. This means giving them minutes to develop but also that our starters have to play 40+ mins to make up for their inconsistency.

- I say we develop either Lampe or Zarko, not both in for our frontcourt. Also, choosing 1-2 out of Vujanic, Barbosa, and Casey, not all 3. Then we fill out the rest of our roster with veterans who can contribute enough to reduce the minutes of our starters.

2. I think we need a player that can draw the double team (Kobe/Tmac) or a solid supporting cast with shooters that can make our opponent pay for leaving them open. I think people miss the true value of a Kobe or Tmac when we compare just their stats. Being able to draw the double team could really help this team especially if Amare is able to do it as well. I dont think Marion is capable of this but JJ might be a possibility.

I believe we could be a contender adding only a solid supporting cast, but they would have to be great shooters and Amare would definately have to be able to draw consistent double teams. This would also involve great ball movement and hitting the open man. Of the games Ive seen with the suns, our team seems unstoppable when our teams shooters are hitting shot after shot, but the problem seems to be that they are terribly inconsistent and cant make up for when theyre missing a lot with defense.

-I say that if we go after Kobe or Tmac, we get one or the another, not both.

3. I dont see a problem with paying free agents with an injury history (Camby/Dampier/etc..) big money, but i do have a problem with the amount of years teams are often willing to give these types of free agents. It really boggles my mind when these players are offered contracts with 6 years on them. I say we offer them the most money, but only a couple of years. If they get injured the first season, then we at least took a chance and we arent tied down the next decade.

sorry for the long post.

 

[George O'Brien]

Hi Mad. I agree with much of wha of what you say although I'm not sure how all of it translates into specific moves.

Id like to share what I think the suns should look for this summer.

1. I think we have too many projects on this team that we're trying to develop. I like our projects in Lampe, Zarko, Barbosa, Casey, and Vujanic but the reality is that having them making up our team is thinning out our bench. Sure Outlaw and Penny weren't the greatest players *wink*, but they did a good job anchoring our bench and consistently contributing. I have a hard time getting a read on how good our core really is when a better bench could won us a lot more games.

I agree the Suns bench was very weak. The Suns played the second half of the season with only four guards and Eisley did not play well before he was hurt. Even if the Sun sign Vujanic, they need a veteran guard who can shoot, play defense, and not make too many mistakes.

The problem with having so many projects is that we dont know how long its going to take for them to develop and theres no guarentee that it will happen by next season or if ever. While theyve been with us, Ive see too much inconsistency with 10 pts one night and a goose egg the next couple of nights. We cant bury them on our bench and hope they develop either. This means giving them minutes to develop but also that our starters have to play 40+ mins to make up for their inconsistency.

Points are only one part of the problem The Suns defense left a lot to be desired and they were not great on the boards.

- I say we develop either Lampe or Zarko, not both in for our frontcourt.

Zarko is an SF. Putting him inside is a form of "small ball" and not really a solution.

Also, choosing 1-2 out of Vujanic, Barbosa, and Casey, not all 3. Then we fill out the rest of our roster with veterans who can contribute enough to reduce the minutes of our starters.

Tradiitionally, the Suns have gone with a 5-2-5 roster structure: 5 guards, 2 SF, and 5 inside guys. Their decision to go with four guards over the latter part of the seaons was a conscious effort to give their young guys more playing time. Even adding Vujanic only gives the Suns five guards. Unless they sign or trade for a stud guard, I would expect the Suns to be looking for a low priced veteran to replace Eisley in a five guard arrangement.

This would return Jacobsen to his role as a three point specialist rather than a primary guy off the bench.

2. I think we need a player that can draw the double team (Kobe/Tmac) or a solid supporting cast with shooters that can make our opponent pay for leaving them open. I think people miss the true value of a Kobe or Tmac when we compare just their stats. Being able to draw the double team could really help this team especially if Amare is able to do it as well. I dont think Marion is capable of this but JJ might be a possibility.

Actually JJ was drawing double teams late in the season, which was part of the reason his shooting was down but his assists were up. If the scouting reports on Vujanic are even close to acccurate, he should give the Suns a lot more consistent firepower than Barbosa and draw double teams much the way Stephon did.

This doesn't mean the Suns should not go after a stud guard. But it is why I don't want to give away JJ or Vujanic until we know if these guys are going to be as good as we hope.

I believe we could be a contender adding only a solid supporting cast, but they would have to be great shooters and Amare would definately have to be able to draw consistent double teams. This would also involve great ball movement and hitting the open man. Of the games Ive seen with the suns, our team seems unstoppable when our teams shooters are hitting shot after shot, but the problem seems to be that they are terribly inconsistent and cant make up for when theyre missing a lot with defense.

Mike D'Antoni stated that the Suns are not a good shooting team. Adding Vujanic should help, but emphasizing defense is going to be crucial.

-I say that if we go after Kobe or Tmac, we get one or the another, not both.

Getting either would be extremely difficult. Both is not only close to impossible, it is not even necesssarily a good thing.

3. I dont see a problem with paying free agents with an injury history (Camby/Dampier/etc..) big money, but i do have a problem with the amount of years teams are often willing to give these types of free agents. It really boggles my mind when these players are offered contracts with 6 years on them. I say we offer them the most money, but only a couple of years. If they get injured the first season, then we at least took a chance and we arent tied down the next decade.

sorry for the long post.

That IS the problem with Camby/Dampier. It is also an issue with Dice, whom I would not give more than a three year deal. If rumors of lower cap levels prove out, the Suns cannot afford to paying for anyone who can't play - but that is really true with expensive players.

 

[elindholm]

Hey Errntknght, I'm with you on Etan Thomas! I'd love to see him on the Suns. Unless a very good center -- above the Blount/Okur/Foyle level -- falls into the Suns' laps, they'll be playing a lot of small ball anyway.

 

[PhxGametime]

I've liked Etan Thomas since college days, I was watching Wizards game not too long ago - watching Haywood and Thomas played really well against Suns. Stronger than Stromile Swift (player I mentioned was interested in) - I'll check out his stats. He could be good fit - was a top level shot-blocker in college and rebounder.

 

[SweetD]

IMO I would trade Vujanic right now his stock is high and a tweener guard is not really what the Suns need. I think a package of Marion, Vujanic, Casey and a first rounder would get Tmac.

 

[F-Dog]

I assume that most of you already know how I feel about Blount vs. Okur, so I'll just make a few quick points:


1. Okur is going to be 25 and in his third year in the NBA next year. Blount will be 29 and has been banging around the league for a while. I bet that Okur is still capable of significant improvement, while Blount may never have another season where he matches his stats from this year.

2. Minutes and stats were much, much harder to come by in Detroit than they were in Boston. In particular, Okur creates quite a few of his points by himself, by taking on a set half-court defense.

3. Okur's 18-footer would be a major weapon in Phoenix. Blount doesn't have anything like that to separate himself from, say, Jake Voskuhl.

4. There are two different types of players the Suns should be looking to sign--young players who can grow with a young team, or cagey veterans who can impart wisdom to the young players the Suns already have. Blount doesn't qualify on either account.

5. Lampe may have looked decent in very limited minutes this year, but he'll be 19 next year, and he's unproven (untried?) as a center. And frankly, if Lampe vs. Okur becomes a problem, it will be a very good (and very unusual) problem for the Suns to have.



I doubt this is relevant anyway, since I think Okur will wind up with a long-term contract starting at $7m or $8m, while Blount won't get more than the MLE. I don't see the logic in Blount getting the MLE from the Suns, though.