Would You Trade Two First-Round Picks for Von Miller?

[Southpaw]

Ummmm....... no.

But if he came with Jackson, Wolfe, Ware..........


Very boring. The offensive stats were minimal. Watching the clock tick down was the highlight of my viewing experience.

 

[TJ]

No

1. We don't have multiple pass rushers. Von Miller can do what he does, because they also have Demarcus Ware, whod be the #1 pass rusher on virtually any team in the NFL. Furthermore, they also have a good dline with Malik Jackson (A FA id like to pickup), Derek Wolfe, and a very, very strong secondary.

Investing all that in Von when you have no other pieces, is like signing a FA megastar WR to a 18M contract when you have John skelton at QB.


2. Yall need to understand Von Miller is a knucklehead, and the reason hes doing so well in his personal life is because of Demarcus Ware being a father figure.

Im not saying he regresses, but who knows what happens if you take Von away from Demarcus, and give him all this money.


3. Use those 1sts on pass rushers. And the 2nd rounders on pass rushers as well. One is bound to pan out. And hell be way cheaper than Von Miller

Fair points, but none of our pass rushers have panned out. The two that have were the rotting corpses of Johnathan Abraham and Dwight Freeney on short-term, placeholder for retirement contracts. Also, it's difficult to find a suitable pass rusher late in the first round or in the ensuing rounds. Likely, if we make that trade, we're trading two picks that are between 21-32. If you can get a guaranteed top-tier pass rusher, it might be worth it.

Now, if we were still picking in the Top 10 year in and year out, my opinion might be different.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Fair points, but none of our pass rushers have panned out. The two that have were the rotting corpses of Johnathan Abraham and Dwight Freeney on short-term, placeholder for retirement contracts. Also, it's difficult to find a suitable pass rusher late in the first round or in the ensuing rounds. Likely, if we make that trade, we're trading two picks that are between 21-32. If you can get a guaranteed top-tier pass rusher, it might be worth it.

Now, if we were still picking in the Top 10 year in and year out, my opinion might be different.

I'm thinking we make a play for "not quite a rotting corpse yet" Tamba Hali who probably has a two more years of tread left on his tires while trying to pick up someone in the first two rounds to attack the passer.

Unfortunately, there's no miracle cure to get an absolutely dynamic pass-rusher right now, so it's gonna have to be by committee. They just have to get more speed on that front 7. I know we had the 5th ranked D, but that ranking always felt like a mirage to me. They were a solid D, that was very opportunistic and feasted on bad teams when the offense would get up big, but when we played the best offenses in the league (Cincy, Seattle and Carolina) we gave up an average of 37 ppg.

 

[Shane]

No

1. We don't have multiple pass rushers. Von Miller can do what he does, because they also have Demarcus Ware, whod be the #1 pass rusher on virtually any team in the NFL. Furthermore, they also have a good dline with Malik Jackson (A FA id like to pickup), Derek Wolfe, and a very, very strong secondary.

Investing all that in Von when you have no other pieces, is like signing a FA megastar WR to a 18M contract when you have John skelton at QB.


2. Yall need to understand Von Miller is a knucklehead, and the reason hes doing so well in his personal life is because of Demarcus Ware being a father figure.

Im not saying he regresses, but who knows what happens if you take Von away from Demarcus, and give him all this money.


3. Use those 1sts on pass rushers. And the 2nd rounders on pass rushers as well. One is bound to pan out. And hell be way cheaper than Von Miller

This is the most sane and realistic post in this entire thread while I get the appeal. He just wouldn't be worth it or the risk.

 

[Cardiac]

He was unbelievable last night, and has been dominant for pretty much his whole career. He is, however, one screw up away from being suspended for a full year, and as far as I know, once he's at this stage, he's staying there for the rest of his career. I know how amazing he looked yesterday, and we desperately need a pass rusher of his caliber, but that's a whole lot of risk that I'd be scared to take, and I'm not even getting paid to take it.

No

1. We don't have multiple pass rushers. Von Miller can do what he does, because they also have Demarcus Ware, whod be the #1 pass rusher on virtually any team in the NFL. Furthermore, they also have a good dline with Malik Jackson (A FA id like to pickup), Derek Wolfe, and a very, very strong secondary.

Investing all that in Von when you have no other pieces, is like signing a FA megastar WR to a 18M contract when you have John skelton at QB.


2. Yall need to understand Von Miller is a knucklehead, and the reason hes doing so well in his personal life is because of Demarcus Ware being a father figure.

Im not saying he regresses, but who knows what happens if you take Von away from Demarcus, and give him all this money.


3. Use those 1sts on pass rushers. And the 2nd rounders on pass rushers as well. One is bound to pan out. And hell be way cheaper than Von Miller

I agree with these two smart gents.

 

[oaken1]

star pass rushers are awesome....but rare...we would be better served getting decent rushers,...and a couple of monsters on the d-line that command a double on every snap.... even decent rushers can put up star type numbers if there is nobody left to block them....or if the RB has to decide if he is blocking left or right.

 

[Buckybird]

It doesn't matter even discussing considering the Donkeys will tag him with exclusive rights tag so nobody can even touch him.

 

[AZ Native]

It doesn't matter even discussing considering the Donkeys will tag him with exclusive rights tag so nobody can even touch him.

Yeah, I think I heard they would have 31 million in cap space if Manning doesn't return. Not sure if that is accurate though.

 

[Sunburn]

No

1. We don't have multiple pass rushers. Von Miller can do what he does, because they also have Demarcus Ware, whod be the #1 pass rusher on virtually any team in the NFL. Furthermore, they also have a good dline with Malik Jackson (A FA id like to pickup), Derek Wolfe, and a very, very strong secondary.

Investing all that in Von when you have no other pieces, is like signing a FA megastar WR to a 18M contract when you have John skelton at QB.


2. Yall need to understand Von Miller is a knucklehead, and the reason hes doing so well in his personal life is because of Demarcus Ware being a father figure.

Im not saying he regresses, but who knows what happens if you take Von away from Demarcus, and give him all this money.


3. Use those 1sts on pass rushers. And the 2nd rounders on pass rushers as well. One is bound to pan out. And hell be way cheaper than Von Miller

He was unbelievable last night, and has been dominant for pretty much his whole career. He is, however, one screw up away from being suspended for a full year, and as far as I know, once he's at this stage, he's staying there for the rest of his career. I know how amazing he looked yesterday, and we desperately need a pass rusher of his caliber, but that's a whole lot of risk that I'd be scared to take, and I'm not even getting paid to take it.

Yes, there is some risk, but I don't understand thinking it's not worth it. Miller was a sack machine long before Ware joined the Broncos and he's only been in trouble with the league one time, that being in 2013. With two late round firsts, are you going to get a player of his caliber? Are you even guaranteed two starters? One starter? We got DJ freaking Humphries this year. How much of an impact has Jonathan Cooper made? A bird in hand is worth two (or more) in the bush. Easy trade for me to make. Professional sports is about quality over quantity. Only so many guys can be out on the field at one time. I'd rather have one Von Miller than five Markus Golden's.....and I like MG.

 

[Iceman]

He seems to be a good person, so he would fit in well with our classy Cardinal team!

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/17931/super-bowl-mvp-von-miller-reaches-out-to-johnny-manziel

 

[Bodha]

Fair points, but none of our pass rushers have panned out. The two that have were the rotting corpses of Johnathan Abraham and Dwight Freeney on short-term, placeholder for retirement contracts. Also, it's difficult to find a suitable pass rusher late in the first round or in the ensuing rounds. Likely, if we make that trade, we're trading two picks that are between 21-32. If you can get a guaranteed top-tier pass rusher, it might be worth it.

Now, if we were still picking in the Top 10 year in and year out, my opinion might be different.

Yes, there is some risk, but I don't understand thinking it's not worth it. Miller was a sack machine long before Ware joined the Broncos and he's only been in trouble with the league one time, that being in 2013. With two late round firsts, are you going to get a player of his caliber? Are you even guaranteed two starters? One starter? We got DJ freaking Humphries this year. How much of an impact has Jonathan Cooper made? A bird in hand is worth two (or more) in the bush. Easy trade for me to make. Professional sports is about quality over quantity. Only so many guys can be out on the field at one time. I'd rather have one Von Miller than five Markus Golden's.....and I like MG.

Theres other factors beyond just "we're getting an elite pass rusher", because you must also pay him. Likely top paid defensive player in the NFL money. Talks are upwards of 127 million. Deals like that absolutely hamstring you. How do we resign Tyrann, CC, Veldheer, whoever-else, when the time comes when we are paying a non-QB QB-type money? And that's on top of the point already made about the fact hed be our ONLY pass rusher. Teams would walk in here, double team him for 60 minutes, and walk out. How would you feel if our 100M pass rusher ended the season with 5 sacks because he got doubled every game? And CC/Golden have not consistently shown they can win 1 on 1. That's a major problem. Wed be wasting money on essentially a block sponge NT at the OLB position.


Lastly, we haven't tried drafting yet. We've spent 1 pick on a pass rusher lately, Golden, and while hes not Von Miller, statistically, he was the best rookie pass rusher last year.

I know we don't like need-drafting, but going after a pass rusher in 1, 2 and 3 might not be a bad idea. One is BOUND to be good, as Keim is generally a good drafter.

*lastly part B, you don't need a Von Miller to win the superbowl. It helps, big time. But its not a requirement. Von Miller, JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack are rare. All A++ guys.

But to win the superbowl, Id say you need 2 B+ pass rusher. Those are much easier to find then all-timers/future HOFrs like the guys I named.

 

[carrrnuttt]

No

1. We don't have multiple pass rushers. Von Miller can do what he does, because they also have Demarcus Ware, whod be the #1 pass rusher on virtually any team in the NFL. Furthermore, they also have a good dline with Malik Jackson (A FA id like to pickup), Derek Wolfe, and a very, very strong secondary.

Investing all that in Von when you have no other pieces, is like signing a FA megastar WR to a 18M contract when you have John skelton at QB.

I agree. See: DeMarco Murray.

2. Yall need to understand Von Miller is a knucklehead, and the reason hes doing so well in his personal life is because of Demarcus Ware being a father figure.

Im not saying he regresses, but who knows what happens if you take Von away from Demarcus, and give him all this money.

I agree with most of this, but I think our environment between people like Carson and Fitz and PP and HB, this would be one of the better teams to keep him grounded. Imagine him on the Cowboys, for example.

3. Use those 1sts on pass rushers. And the 2nd rounders on pass rushers as well. One is bound to pan out. And hell be way cheaper than Von Miller

I agree here, as well.

 

[SO91]

I agree. See: DeMarco Murray.



I agree with most of this, but I think our environment between people like Carson and Fitz and PP and HB, this would be one of the better teams to keep him grounded. Imagine him on the Cowboys, for example.



I agree here, as well.

Ok I have to say I was wrong on the Stage 3 drug program thing. My bad, I was going off old info. He was released from the NFL's drug program after testing clean for 24 months. Apparently if popped again, he'd go into Stage 1.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28574928/von-miller-released-from-nfls-drug-program

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Then don't post in it.

Tell me snarky, after the dumervil fiasco do you think there's even a 0.01% chance Von miller is not franchised if they don't come to a long-term agreement first?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sounds like there's a bit of confusion regarding the Franchise Tag. There are two types:

Exclusive: Most expensive tag, but the player cannot negotiate with other teams

Non-Exclusive: less expensive, but player has the right to negotiate a deal with other teams, and the player's previous team gets compensated two first-round picks from the new team

And you think the broncos, with a freshly minted Super Bowl MVP are going to go the non-exclusive route?

 

[ajcardfan]

And you think the broncos, with a freshly minted Super Bowl MVP are going to go the non-exclusive route?

Yeah, they won't give anyone a chance to get him. In fact, IF they don't use either tag on him then that would send up huge red flags about how he is off the field. IMHO

 

[TJ]

And you think the broncos, with a freshly minted Super Bowl MVP are going to go the non-exclusive route?

Where did I say that? Go back to the OP:

If, for some reason, he is only given the "non-exclusive" tag by Denver?

It's highly unlikely that he isn't re-signed or given the exclusive tag, but stranger things have happened in free agency.

Either way, this thread stimulated a good conversation about a) his trade value and b) our ongoing need for a legit pass rusher. Not as useless as you said it was.