Yeesh!

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Have you lost your mind?? 3rd stringer?

He would start on 1st and 2nd down at least and clog the middle. McKinnon /Darling/Thompson/Fischer would have career years behind him!

Then post your D-line starter list. I would like to see who you place Washingon above.

 

[Red Air Force]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
You may very well be right, but I have been hearing this arguement since Buddy Ryan left.

It is about time to produce some results!

True, however the key phrase in that sentance is "Keep all of the starters" . As an organization we have NEVER done that. Until management realizes that, that is how you win, we will never move foward.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
True, however the key phrase in that sentance is "Keep all of the starters" . As an organization we have NEVER done that. Until management realizes that, that is how you win, we will never move foward.

well until management gets people in her who can draft players worth drafting in round 1-3 and not lose those that actually pan out - this team is going nowhere. I think I saw a stat that Raynoch is the only 2nd rounder we still have on the team from the 90s and that Shelton is the only first rounder - do you have any idea how unbelievably sad that is? Graves has never shown the ability anywhere he has gone in the area of personell - he was run out of Chicago and my thoughts are that within two years he'll be run out of here as well. By the way - how are contract extensions going - or are we going to wait until the season starts so it can start affecting their play, thereby making some starers club house cancers and guys we really didn't want around enxt season anyway.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Sounds like they sell koolaid up in Chicago also.

Every report from every fan and newspaper that I read said he was having a good camp and the belief as Traylor would be the one traded.

So I guess this isn't believable because it is easier to think that than to believe maybe the Cards should have gone after him?

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
well until management gets people in her who can draft players worth drafting in round 1-3 and not lose those that actually pan out - this team is going nowhere. I think I saw a stat that Raynoch is the only 2nd rounder we still have on the team from the 90s and that Shelton is the only first rounder - do you have any idea how unbelievably sad that is? Graves has never shown the ability anywhere he has gone in the area of personell - he was run out of Chicago and my thoughts are that within two years he'll be run out of here as well. By the way - how are contract extensions going - or are we going to wait until the season starts so it can start affecting their play, thereby making some starers club house cancers and guys we really didn't want around enxt season anyway.

Last time I checked ALL of our draft picks were contributing this year, so far. Total failure? Or a new way of doing business?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by AzCards21
Last time I checked ALL of our draft picks were contributing this year, so far. Total failure? Or a new way of doing business?

Or they are being forced into action because we have 14 million dollars of cap room due to players not wanting to play here. Besides - wait till the season starts before you start saying anyone is contributing - the proof will be in the pudding - still doesn't change the fact that our rooks are starstign because we failed to get veterans to start in front of them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Every report from every fan and newspaper that I read said he was having a good camp and the belief as Traylor would be the one traded.

So I guess this isn't believable because it is easier to think that than to believe maybe the Cards should have gone after him?

That couldn't possibly be - besides Skkorp says he's got clubhouse baggage meaning he's a cancer - right Skkorp and that he's injury prone - do you guys just have auto responses when the Cards continually screw up?

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Or they are being forced into action because we have 14 million dollars of cap room due to players not wanting to play here. Besides - wait till the season starts before you start saying anyone is contributing - the proof will be in the pudding - still doesn't change the fact that our rooks are starstign because we failed to get veterans to start in front of them.

Well can you wait until the season starts before you start saying that they are not?!

Perhaps you should also consider the fact that this Graves first year as the Cardinals' GM before you start crucifying him and saying that he will be run out of town. Just a thought

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Every report from every fan and newspaper that I read said he was having a good camp and the belief as Traylor would be the one traded.

So I guess this isn't believable because it is easier to think that than to believe maybe the Cards should have gone after him?

Look at every camp around the league an you will see the same warm and fuzzy feeling. The Cardinals included. Everyone is in the best shape of their lives. All is good.

My guess is that when the real hitting starts up and he is forced to play an entire game he won't be felling like "he hasn't felt this good since the start of his six-year stay in Buffalo". The guy is coming off serious injuries, is Very heavy and the sands of time are starting to pile up.

 

[seesred]

Washington was not on our radar screen. He is old and coming off an injury. He may have this year in him, but he can't play every day who does he replce when he is put in. I like our new defense and adding a vet is a good idea if possible. But do any of you want us to go back to cap problems, for the likes of Washington. Now same thing 2-5 years ago we jump harder, not now. Maybe as a free agent we look, maybe.

GBR

Graves slow and steady wait for the right deal. We are building this team for our new stadium anything in between is just extra. Yes we can sneak into the playoff picture, but the stars must be aligned correctly. Most of you before this all started said you would be thrilled with 8-8 record. Some say we will only win 5-6 games. The difference will not be Washington.

 

[jmr667]

Really. If the guy was feeling and looking so good in Chicago how did he end up on the trading block? And why for future draft picks instead of a need position this year?

For some reason the Bears thought the guy was NOT going to help them get to the Superbowl this year. In fact a 4th round draft pick next year looked more useful to them. Should we be thinking different about the Cards?

Lots of people spouting opinions about the trade. But unless we figure out why the Bears thought he was expendable how can we know what good the guy could do here? Are the Bears that deep at DT?
We spend so much time bashing the Bronco's for picking up Jake. We say they are fools for thinking they know the player better than his previous coaching staff. Then along comes another guy deemed expendable by his own team...

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by jmr667
Really. If the guy was feeling and looking so good in Chicago how did he end up on the trading block? And why for future draft picks instead of a need position this year?

For some reason the Bears thought the guy was NOT going to help them get to the Superbowl this year. In fact a 4th round draft pick next year looked more useful to them. Should we be thinking different about the Cards?

Lots of people spouting opinions about the trade. But unless we figure out why the Bears thought he was expendable how can we know what good the guy could do here? Are the Bears that deep at DT?
We spend so much time bashing the Bronco's for picking up Jake. We say they are fools for thinking they know the player better than his previous coaching staff. Then along comes another guy deemed expendable by his own team...

Couple of reasons...and these could be the reasons why the Cards either didn't want to make a move or were never contacted to make a move.

1. This is Washington's last year under contract. In theory they may have been trying to get something before the outright lost him.

2. There has been a rumor now for many days that the Bears are pressing to trade for Duce Staley. By trading Washington they clear about 1.5 million in cap space according to what I am reading. That gives them $4 million right now. Is that enough for Duce?

3. I said in another thread awhile ago that the Bears are changing defensive philosophies and big space eating DTs are no longer needed to play their new defense.

But alot of the reasons given on this thread have been crap. Cracks me up how a guy gets traded or cut and suddenly he is injury prone, fat, lazy, stupid, worse than anyone we have here, and lockerroom cancer.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Look at every camp around the league an you will see the same warm and fuzzy feeling. The Cardinals included. Everyone is in the best shape of their lives. All is good.

My guess is that when the real hitting starts up and he is forced to play an entire game he won't be felling like "he hasn't felt this good since the start of his six-year stay in Buffalo". The guy is coming off serious injuries, is Very heavy and the sands of time are starting to pile up.

Except Traylor was being bashed for having a horrible camp and the Bears supposedly were dying to cut him loose (I think he would have cleared even more space cap wise but I don't get the cap all the time).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by seesred

Graves slow and steady wait for the right deal. We are building this team for our new stadium anything in between is just extra.

Man if you think we are building for a team that will be ultimately be good in 2006 AND you endorse that plan - well then you are a more patient man than me. It shouldn't take 4 years to build a good team. With the sixth pick, a season removed from going 7-9 and being on the upswing, with a last place schedule and the most cap room of any team in the league - this team was ready to make the jump THIS year - personally I think Graves blew it - and don't give me that first time nonsense - the guy ran Chicago also -and ran their asses into the ground - who the hell else gives up a first round pick for Rick Mirer?

Slow and steady don't apply in the NFL - it's a kill or be killed game, teams rise to the top quickly and fall just as fast - except us who seem to be happy stuck in neutral down in the cellar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Evil Ash
Well can you wait until the season starts before you start saying that they are not?!

Perhaps you should also consider the fact that this Graves first year as the Cardinals' GM before you start crucifying him and saying that he will be run out of town. Just a thought

It's a thought - not a good one IMO opinion but a thought. The guy failed in Chicago, from the looks of mutliple holdouts over the years, poor negotiation tactics with fre agents and getting fleeced on draft day, not to mention losing Boston for nothing, I'd say Graves between Chi-town and his stay here - which has dated back before this year, has never really shown to be competent at much of anything. What did he do this offseason - He WANTED Kordell Stewart and offered him the contract before Blake - what does that tell you? He got Emmitt Smith - a guy no one wanted and then paid him 4million per - even though it was apsoition of strength already. Oh and he signed the Super Bowl MVP (A good signing - nothing to complaiun about here or with Hodgins). But you guys make it seem like we did all this stuff in Free Agency - we got four starters out of it - and replaced four others - we had the cap room - it wasn't like he made some miraculous deals - guys were gonn atake money and bottom line is he didn't get the guys he really wanted (Kordell -thank god - although I'm sure everyone would have somehow rationalized that move if he had signed, Colvin and Holliday) But yes - he has done agreat job so far - he's building a team for the stadium - did I hear that right? Sorry folks I ain't buying it.

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
It's a thought - not a good one IMO opinion but a thought. The guy failed in Chicago, from the looks of mutliple holdouts over the years, poor negotiation tactics with fre agents and getting fleeced on draft day, not to mention losing Boston for nothing, I'd say Graves between Chi-town and his stay here - which has dated back before this year, has never really shown to be competent at much of anything. What did he do this offseason - He WANTED Kordell Stewart and offered him the contract before Blake - what does that tell you? He got Emmitt Smith - a guy no one wanted and then paid him 4million per - even though it was apsoition of strength already. Oh and he signed the Super Bowl MVP (A good signing - nothing to complaiun about here or with Hodgins). But you guys make it seem like we did all this stuff in Free Agency - we got four starters out of it - and replaced four others - we had the cap room - it wasn't like he made some miraculous deals - guys were gonn atake money and bottom line is he didn't get the guys he really wanted (Kordell -thank god - although I'm sure everyone would have somehow rationalized that move if he had signed, Colvin and Holliday) But yes - he has done agreat job so far - he's building a team for the stadium - did I hear that right? Sorry folks I ain't buying it.

Wow, okay where to begin ...

(1) Rod Graves was never given an opportunity in Chicago ... he was given the title but had very little power (Dave Wannstedt (sp?) was actually given the power of GM and head coach)

(2) Many people know for quite a while around here that Bill Bidwill was actually in control of contract negotiations by not allowing our GMs and contract negotiators have complete power in adding things such as incetives and escalators. Now that Micheal Bidwill has taken control, Graves was given free reign and did complete the contract negotiations of draft picks in rather quick order (I seem to even remembering you complementing how quickly he got those done this year ... is your memory that short?)

(3) About losing Boston for nothing ... what makes you so certain that we would have gotten something for him? I mean a grand total of 3 teams were interested in him (Ravens, Chargers, and us). Hell the falcons (whom needed a WR desperately) though so highly of David Boston that they traded a first round pick to get what many consider a lesser receiver in Peerless Price than getting David Boston for nothing ... this should tell you something.

(4) As for the Emmitt signing ... this is something I don't understand about your arguments. First you complain that the Cardinals didn't do enough with the cap money they had and still do have. Then you complain that we overpayed Emmitt even though it doesn't hurt our cap status really. So if it doesn't really hurt us cap wise WTF is the point in arguing that we overpaid for him?

(5) What is the fascination with Ted Washington? He's 35 years old (ancient in football terms), 370+ lbs, and he played in a grand total of 2 games last year due to injuries. That of course means he's an absolute sure thing according to you ... hell he's so good we shouldn't have traded a fourth rounder for him, we should have traded a first rounder . I mean some of our defensive linemen have been impressive thus far but lets just ignore them.

Now am I saying that I agree with everything that Rod Graves has done thus far? No, I'd still would have liked to get a vet WR and the fact that he went after Kordell scares the crap out of me.

But what I am saying is isn't a tad bit early to attack a GM that has admitted that we are rebuilding as well as having to fix a scouting department and front office that many agree on this board that needed to be fixed. Can you at least give the man sometime to prove himself one way or the other? Hell most coaches get a honeymoon period of 3 years before they really get judged ... but somehow this GM has yet to even finish one offseason and yet without a shadow of doubt to you he has no clue what the hell he is doing! Doesn't that seem a tad harsh?!

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
That couldn't possibly be - besides Skkorp says he's got clubhouse baggage meaning he's a cancer - right Skkorp and that he's injury prone - do you guys just have auto responses when the Cards continually screw up?

Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime? Must be nice to be all knowing and be able to know that not signing Washington is a "screw up".

 

[HoodieBets]

Beef i see your gettin ganged up on so i decided id come in here to help you out.

Some of you people are frickin' out of your mind. NE gave washington a physical before they traded for him, what do you think they are stupid? They would not have signed this guy if he had any type of injury. Graves has not earned any of the praise you people are giving him right now. He has really done nothing. He did not sign guys he replaced guys. Washington is well worth a fourth round pick. He is a run stuffer which this team needs. He would be an immmediate starter. He is better than bell and davis. Bellicheck is a mastermind on defense, he just dosent get players for nothing. He sees things in guys other people(rod graves) just dosent see especially on defense. You guys obviously do not know one thing about bellicheck and his system. I live in NE and the fans absolutely love this move. They think now with washington they locked their line and are in place for another SB run. I hate the pats but i love how they work. When they need something they get it instead of sitting on their hands, like the cards. Im sick of the waiting i want a team to root for that has a chance to win. We suck and the cards front office is the reason. You people need to step away from the kool-aid and come back down to earth.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
We suck and the cards front office is the reason. You people need to step away from the kool-aid and come back down to earth.

Why don't you wait until we play a real game before you write off the season?

To quote the title of this thread, "Yeesh!"

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Man if you think we are building for a team that will be ultimately be good in 2006 AND you endorse that plan - well then you are a more patient man than me. It shouldn't take 4 years to build a good team. With the sixth pick, a season removed from going 7-9 and being on the upswing, with a last place schedule and the most cap room of any team in the league - this team was ready to make the jump THIS year - personally I think Graves blew it - and don't give me that first time nonsense - the guy ran Chicago also -and ran their asses into the ground - who the hell else gives up a first round pick for Rick Mirer?

Slow and steady don't apply in the NFL - it's a kill or be killed game, teams rise to the top quickly and fall just as fast - except us who seem to be happy stuck in neutral down in the cellar.

Cheesey might be using the force on me or something. But guys he is right. REGARDLESS of how good Washington is, and REGARDLESS of how good our rookies are. Graves DID NOT bring in a vetran defense line player. AND he should be doing something about it RIGHT NOW. With KVB gone we really don't have any NFL seasoned vets on our defensive line. Who are the rookies going to turn to? Bell ? Davis? Wakefield? THese guys are busy enough getting their own skills up to par.
And he is also right about slow and steady. That don't cut it in the NFL we got most of our guys locked up in 3 to 4 year deals. THIS YEAR AND THIS YEAR ONLY!!!! Is your rebuilding year. THat means we should be around 8-8 at best! Next year you shoot for the playoffs, and the then you take your shot! But come on! You can't sit around for 5 years expecting everyone to stay with the program. This organization DOES NOT have the luxiary of a good reputation. They don't start making it look like they are gonna win we will be in this same position come 2006.

I feel.......cheese flavored! Ugh. Someone get tortilla chips. Stat!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally posted by Renz
Why don't you wait until we play a real game before you write off the season?

To quote the title of this thread, "Yeesh!"

This thread HAS NOTHING to do with the season.

This season is going to be great! I think we will be competitve and find ourselves in a couple barn burners. Blake thrives on a good barn burner.

It has everything to do with getting some of that vetran help on the defensive line that Graves said we would get.

THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE: Moa Tosi!

Peace

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by Evil Ash
Wow, okay where to begin ...

(1) Rod Graves was never given an opportunity in Chicago ... he was given the title but had very little power (Dave Wannstedt (sp?) was actually given the power of GM and head coach)

(2) Many people know for quite a while around here that Bill Bidwill was actually in control of contract negotiations by not allowing our GMs and contract negotiators have complete power in adding things such as incetives and escalators. Now that Micheal Bidwill has taken control, Graves was given free reign and did complete the contract negotiations of draft picks in rather quick order (I seem to even remembering you complementing how quickly he got those done this year ... is your memory that short?)

(3) About losing Boston for nothing ... what makes you so certain that we would have gotten something for him? I mean a grand total of 3 teams were interested in him (Ravens, Chargers, and us). Hell the falcons (whom needed a WR desperately) though so highly of David Boston that they traded a first round pick to get what many consider a lesser receiver in Peerless Price than getting David Boston for nothing ... this should tell you something.

(4) As for the Emmitt signing ... this is something I don't understand about your arguments. First you complain that the Cardinals didn't do enough with the cap money they had and still do have. Then you complain that we overpayed Emmitt even though it doesn't hurt our cap status really. So if it doesn't really hurt us cap wise WTF is the point in arguing that we overpaid for him?

(5) What is the fascination with Ted Washington? He's 35 years old (ancient in football terms), 370+ lbs, and he played in a grand total of 2 games last year due to injuries. That of course means he's an absolute sure thing according to you ... hell he's so good we shouldn't have traded a fourth rounder for him, we should have traded a first rounder . I mean some of our defensive linemen have been impressive thus far but lets just ignore them.

Now am I saying that I agree with everything that Rod Graves has done thus far? No, I'd still would have liked to get a vet WR and the fact that he went after Kordell scares the crap out of me.

But what I am saying is isn't a tad bit early to attack a GM that has admitted that we are rebuilding as well as having to fix a scouting department and front office that many agree on this board that needed to be fixed. Can you at least give the man sometime to prove himself one way or the other? Hell most coaches get a honeymoon period of 3 years before they really get judged ... but somehow this GM has yet to even finish one offseason and yet without a shadow of doubt to you he has no clue what the hell he is doing! Doesn't that seem a tad harsh?!

I nominate this for the Post of the Month award.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Man if you think we are building for a team that will be ultimately be good in 2006 AND you endorse that plan - well then you are a more patient man than me.

I think most of us would fit into the more patient than cheesy category.

So about 5 weeks ago you were on a crusade about how big an idiot RG is. Then both 1st rd picks get signed and you do an about face and say RG is the man. What a roller coaster ride of emotions. Life is rarely a situation where the sky is falling or everything is roses. Find some middle ground, this is usually where you find the truth in most matters.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by RugbyMuffin
Cheesey might be using the force on me or something. But guys he is right. REGARDLESS of how good Washington is, and REGARDLESS of how good our rookies are. Graves DID NOT bring in a vetran defense line player.

I feel.......cheese flavored! Ugh. Someone get tortilla chips. Stat!

Did the season start all ready? Wow! I must have missed it. I thought we had two-and-a-half weeks until the beginning of the regular season.

And as we all know, there are no DL out there better than Ted Washington.

 

[Cardiac]

Teams rarely trade players!

Now this year has been more active then in years past so maybe things are changing.

Cards trade a 7th rd pick for Foster
Seahawks trade a 6th rd pick for Adams?(or was is Hand)
Cards swap TJ for M. Walker
Pats trade 4th for Washington
Redskins trade a 4th for Trung C.


Then figure in the picks given up for FA's
Falcons give up a #1 for Price
Redsins give up a #1 for Coles

I know I'm forgetting some others.

Now to long ago the Rams gave up 2nd and 5th rd picks for Faulk. Talk about getting huge value for draft picks.

What does all this mean, well in almost every case the team that gave up a draft pick was either filling a position of need or felt they were getting a superstar.

This brings us to why the Pats gave up a 4th rd pick for Washington.

The Pats want and need to run a 3-4 defense a majority of the time. They don't have a serviceable NT on their roster. They had to get someone who could play this position or their season was going to be a crap shoot at best. So they did the right thing and got a 1 to 2 year fix at this position, good trade for them. The Bears are retooling and to get a 4th rd pick for an at best short term player, this was a good trade for them as well.

Washington is not a long term answer for the Cards nor is he likely a good fit on this team. In a year or two I would hope the Cards are in a position that acquiring a player like this would help put them over the top but at this point it won't.

If the Cards end the season with more than 2 mil under the cap I will start a thread stating that koolaide has been very very bad to me and that I'm an idiot. For now, I'm keep hydrating myself with this tasty beverage and wait to see how the season plays out.