Yeesh!

[Wild Card]

I think Graves has a long-term plan to improve the Cardinals. I think this season is the first year of, at minimum, a three-year plan. I don't think he's interested in spending draft choices and/ or big bucks on one-year, "quick fix" players.

Trading a fourth-round choice for a veteran on the downside of his career would be trading the future for the present. The truth is that the Cardinals are more than one DT away from being a winning team--let alone a playoff team--this year.

What the Patriots did with Ted Washington makes sense from their perspective. This is a team two years removed from a world championship, that missed the playoffs by one game last year, that believes they can return to the postseason this year. Washington may well help them do that.

If the Cards could've picked up Washington off waivers, I'm sure they'd have been glad to have him. Trade a fourth next year? Nope. They'd clearly prefer to keep the draft choice, stand pat with Bryant-Davis-Bell, and watch the wires for added depth.

WC

 

[HoodieBets]

Originally posted by Wild Card
I think Graves has a long-term plan to improve the Cardinals. I think this season is the first year of, at minimum, a three-year plan. I don't think he's interested in spending draft choices and/ or big bucks on one-year, "quick fix" players.

Trading a fourth-round choice for a veteran on the downside of his career would be trading the future for the present. The truth is that the Cardinals are more than one DT away from being a winning team--let alone a playoff team--this year.

What the Patriots did with Ted Washington makes sense from their perspective. This is a team two years removed from a world championship, that missed the playoffs by one game last year, that believes they can return to the postseason this year. Washington may well help them do that.

If the Cards could've picked up Washington off waivers, I'm sure they'd have been glad to have him. Trade a fourth next year? Nope. They'd clearly prefer to keep the draft choice, stand pat with Bryant-Davis-Bell, and watch the wires for added depth.

WC

I dont want long term i want to win NOW! I will say one thing if jevon kearse becomes a free-agent next year and is not signed i will riot and call for graves head on a stick.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
i will riot and call for graves head on a stick.

Is that something that can be deep fried?

 

[HoodieBets]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is that something that can be deep fried?

I think everything can be deep fried, in philly they sell deep fried twinkies.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Teams rarely trade players!

Originally posted by Cardiac
If the Cards end the season with more than 2 mil under the cap I will start a thread stating that koolaide has been very very bad to me and that I'm an idiot. For now, I'm keep hydrating myself with this tasty beverage and wait to see how the season plays out.

my favorite post of the thread. excellent.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
Actually, to 'clarify' this mistake-riddled list (some others already pointed out some of the mistakes):

Kenny King wasn't a fourth round choice. Hello? We didn't HAVE a fourth round pick. We traded it away and it's been a source of argument for months, remember?

Also, Dave Wolenbaugh is still a solid starter in this league, though not with the Pats. They had to get rid of him when they drafted Woody for cap purposes. That pick was therefore a success, because he was a good player. No one on our list, yet, has lived up to the success Wolenbaugh has had.

By your rationale, all of the Pats players not in red have the ability to be breakout players, simply for the fact that they are STILL on the roster. This is a rationale I completely disagree with (so many flaws to that kind of logic), but whatever.

Case in point, you don't call Graham a bust *yawn* Riiiiiiight. And we all know, just because a player starts in the NFL, he was a good player and not a bust. Then why was it Missablocka rarely opened up holes, played like a weeble-wobble and was a pass-catching nonentity? Why did he earn the name Missablocka? Why hasn't he been signed by another team? Could it be he doesn't have enough talent? Impossible by your rationale, because he started here.

Just wanted to clear up some of your oversights.

You seem to miss the overall main point of my original post. Cheesy was ranting on about how bad this team is and how superior the Pats personnel dept. was to the Card's.
My point is not to denigrate the Pats, only to call a foul on Cheesy's outrageous and unfounded claim.

I do stand corrected on King, he was 5th round pick, not 4th. brain fart there. My bad. Send me to hell for that one.

Yes Wohlenbaugh has been a good player in the league, started 3 years for them until, as you say, they drafted Woody to replace him, which has turned out well for them too.

You also seem to put words in my mouth that I never uttered. I never said anyone "in black" had the ability to be "breakout" players. To me, if a 4th rounder becomes a decent contributor in ANY substantial way, then I would consider it a successful pick.

So far the ONLY player on the Cards list that didn't contribute, by at least being a starter at some point is Dwyer.

My point again. . . to say that the Pats personnel dept is vastly superior to the Cards just has no basis in fact.

I repeat:
2001 - Pats are 5 -11. Sign a bunch of "no-names" during the offseason, have no respect going into 2002 and win the Super bowl.
2002 - Cards are 5 -11. Concentrate on developing mostly their own "no-name" draft picks, have no respect going into 2003 by many....So where's the big difference???
Now I'm not claiming the Cards are going to be super bowl champs this year, but some of these unfounded chops/criticisms are really getting outlandish.

 

[HoodieBets]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
You seem to miss the overall main point of my original post. Cheesy was ranting on about how bad this team is and how superior the Pats personnel dept. was to the Card's.
My point is not to denigrate the Pats, only to call a foul on Cheesy's outrageous and unfounded claim.

I do stand corrected on King, he was 5th round pick, not 4th. brain fart there. My bad. Send me to hell for that one.

Yes Wohlenbaugh has been a good player in the league, started 3 years for them until, as you say, they drafted Woody to replace him, which has turned out well for them too.

You also seem to put words in my mouth that I never uttered. I never said anyone "in black" had the ability to be "breakout" players. To me, if a 4th rounder becomes a decent contributor in ANY substantial way, then I would consider it a successful pick.

So far the ONLY player on the Cards list that didn't contribute, by at least being a starter at some point is Dwyer.

My point again. . . to say that the Pats personnel dept is vastly superior to the Cards just has no basis in fact.

I repeat:
2001 - Pats are 5 -11. Sign a bunch of "no-names" during the offseason, have no respect going into 2002 and win the Super bowl.
2002 - Cards are 5 -11. Concentrate on developing mostly their own "no-name" draft picks, have no respect going into 2003 by many....So where's the big difference???
Now I'm not claiming the Cards are going to be super bowl champs this year, but some of these unfounded chops/criticisms are really getting outlandish.

You seem to forget how many players they brought in that following off-season. A lot of guy who contributed plus they had one hell of a cinderella in brady. They didnt lose a lot of their main contributors either. They vastly got better while we are stuck in neutral.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
My point again. . . to say that the Pats personnel dept is vastly superior to the Cards just has no basis in fact.

It's completely founded.
The personnel department puts together teams that are supposed to win.

They win, we don't.
They've been to two Superbowls in the last decade.
They've got division titles.
Their personnel department managed to steal our prized FA aquisition in a matter of days.

I hate the friggin Patriots as much as anyone, but this argument is ridiculous.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
You seem to forget how many players they brought in that following off-season. A lot of guy who contributed plus they had one hell of a cinderella in brady. They didnt lose a lot of their main contributors either. They vastly got better while we are stuck in neutral.

Stuck in neutral huh? And whose to say a lot of the "new" players here won't contribute THIS year?
So you evidently don't think this team has improved this year. That's your, and a few of your darkside groupie buddies take, but time may very well prove your crystal ball is cracked.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Wild Card
Trading a fourth-round choice for a veteran on the downside of his career would be trading the future for the present. The truth is that the Cardinals are more than one DT away from being a winning team--let alone a playoff team--this year.

Turns out the reason Ted Washington didn't wind up with the Redskins is that--as desperate as they are for help at DT--they were unwilling to give the Bears a #3 next year for him.

Imagine that. No one in the league is more about "winning now" than Dan Snyder, and he wouldn't give up a third-rounder to get Washington. Wonder why?

WC

 

[Cheesebeef]

Morning all! Tango you are the best - put a smile on my face first thing. Gracias!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Wild Card
Turns out the reason Ted Washington didn't wind up with the Redskins is that--as desperate as they are for help at DT--they were unwilling to give the Bears a #3 next year for him.

Imagine that. No one in the league is more about "winning now" than Dan Snyder, and he wouldn't give up a third-rounder to get Washington. Wonder why?

WC

How about a link. My understanding was Traylor was on the block to the Skins (rumors had the Bears asking for a #2 which was unrealistic). This Washington thing came out of nowhere (although he was the more tradeable of the 2 DTs IMO).

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Wild Card
Turns out the reason Ted Washington didn't wind up with the Redskins is that--as desperate as they are for help at DT--they were unwilling to give the Bears a #3 next year for him.

Imagine that. No one in the league is more about "winning now" than Dan Snyder, and he wouldn't give up a third-rounder to get Washington. Wonder why?

WC

That's because the 'Skins don't have an '04 fourth-rounder to trade. They desperately wanted him, but I think that everyone will say that a 3rd rounder is too high.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
That's because the 'Skins don't have an '04 fourth-rounder to trade. They desperately wanted him, but I think that everyone will say that a 3rd rounder is too high.

Pats traded a 4th rounder to the Bears that they got from Washington from a deal this year. So the Pats still have a 4th rounder AND Ted Washington.

I personally think ted was worth a 3rd but that is simply opinion.

 

[Cardiac]

Re: Re: Teams rarely trade players!

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
my favorite post of the thread. excellent.

Thanks man.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is that something that can be deep fried?

Now that's funny.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
I think everything can be deep fried, in philly they sell deep fried twinkies.

That's even funnier.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by AZCB34
First, Ted Washington is an older player...that cannot be denied. We all go crazy criticizing the guys age but the Cards brought in a aging RB into a position of apparent strength and we don;t want an aging veteran in a position of depth weakness. He is coming back from injury for sure but as I pointed out last night, before last year his mised ONE start in 8 years. That isn't injury prone to me. The Patriots did their homework and part of that was a physical...which there is no doubt he passed since the trade went through.

You are talking about a huge difference here.

#1 Emmitt was a free agent. We didn't have to give away a future draft pick to bring him in. If Washington got cut then I have no problem bringing him in and seeing if he fits with this team. That way if he doesn't fit or is a total bust you didn't loose anything.

#2 Will Emmitt is also at the end of his career he has been able to remain remarkably heathly for most of his career. While Washington is coming off of injuries and hasn't done much the last couple of years.

#3 Emmitt was brought in here mainly for his leadership. He is a proven winner and is respected by pretty much everyone.

#4 Washington has been playing football for many years now. He has always been big and at 35 years of age I just don't believe that he can remain healthy at his size.

Originally posted by AZCB34
Second, I have little doubt the Cards weren't interested (they may have not even known Washington was on the block). Do I think he would have been able to help? Yes because the only DT anyone has had total praise for up to now has been Bell. Skkorp himself in a thread yesterday question if Bryant had the will and desire to succeed in the NFL. Sorry but that isn;t what I call high praise for our former 1st rounder...and this analysis is by a guy who saw more TC practices than almost anybody else (pinnacle and Renz excluded). He is better than Davis and he is better than Tanner and some would argue he is better than Bell although Bell appears to have earned serious playing time.

Funny, I heard a lot of good things about Bryant up in camp. If I recall Ed_B was impressed with his performance in his camp reports. It think it is way to early to be writing him off.

Originally posted by AZCB34
Finally, while I think he would have upgraded a position for a year, Ted Washington doesn;t represent a player missed to me but rather a generalized opportunity that the Cards seem to miss too often. Teams are making trades and trying to get better and the Cards move merrily along with what they have. The quality teams in the NFL don't stand pat. They are constantly working to get better. They are able to make the trades to improve their teams. They go out and find the trash heap player who wa waived and make a player out of him. The Cards seem content to do nothing special to try and make a difference...ESPECIALLY at positions of weakness and DT is a position of weakness IMO (along with DE and CB).

The point is, whether the cards liked him or not, Washington represents more than a player they could have had. He represents alot of players they could have had and either they couldn;t make the sale, or they hoped for something better or they didn;t have their ear close enough to the ground to hear the rumblings.

I still give Graves a C+ but when is he going to do the one thing that makes average/good GMs great ones? Occasionally take a risk. Maybe it pans out and maybe it doesn't but if you never take the risk you will always be mired in problems. That is my ultimate problem. The risk isn't taken and the stagnancy of this organization is frustrating.

The Cardinals could have possibly had a lot of players. The question is were those players worth the price? If you think Graves is out on the course now that the offseason is over, you are mistaken. I garentee that he is working his ass off right now with the rest of the scouts trying to figure out who may be available when everyone starts to make cuts.

I don't believe that you should trade future draft picks on a player that won't be on your team in a year. The only exception would be if you were a superbowl contender and you believe that one player puts you over the hump. We all know that the cards are not at that point yet.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
I think everything can be deep fried, in philly they sell deep fried twinkies.

I was in minnesota a couple of weeks ago and they were selling deep fried Oreos and Snicker Bars at the fair.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
I was in minnesota a couple of weeks ago and they were selling deep fried Oreos and Snicker Bars at the fair.

I was deep fried corn on the cob and deep fried pickles on a restaurant menu In Arkansas.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
You are talking about a huge difference here.

#1 Emmitt was a free agent. We didn't have to give away a future draft pick to bring him in. If Washington got cut then I have no problem bringing him in and seeing if he fits with this team. That way if he doesn't fit or is a total bust you didn't loose anything.

#2 Will Emmitt is also at the end of his career he has been able to remain remarkably heathly for most of his career. While Washington is coming off of injuries and hasn't done much the last couple of years.

#3 Emmitt was brought in here mainly for his leadership. He is a proven winner and is respected by pretty much everyone.

#4 Washington has been playing football for many years now. He has always been big and at 35 years of age I just don't believe that he can remain healthy at his size.




Funny, I heard a lot of good things about Bryant up in camp. If I recall Ed_B was impressed with his performance in his camp reports. It think it is way to early to be writing him off.





The Cardinals could have possibly had a lot of players. The question is were those players worth the price? If you think Graves is out on the course now that the offseason is over, you are mistaken. I garentee that he is working his ass off right now with the rest of the scouts trying to figure out who may be available when everyone starts to make cuts.

I don't believe that you should trade future draft picks on a player that won't be on your team in a year. The only exception would be if you were a superbowl contender and you believe that one player puts you over the hump. We all know that the cards are not at that point yet.

Okee Dokee. You are right, I am wrong.

I know you bypassed it but I have said Graves did a decent job this offseason...more good than bad. I am not even ticked they didn't get Washington although I think he could add more than this team has.

My issue is what Washington represents. I see you are completely pro-Graves. Nothing he does is wrong. Good to know where the line is.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Okee Dokee. You are right, I am wrong.

I know you bypassed it but I have said Graves did a decent job this offseason...more good than bad. I am not even ticked they didn't get Washington although I think he could add more than this team has.

My issue is what Washington represents. I see you are completely pro-Graves. Nothing he does is wrong. Good to know where the line is.

"Teams are making trades and trying to get better and the Cards move merrily along with what they have. The quality teams in the NFL don't stand pat. They are constantly working to get better. "

This is what I was commenting to. My point was that Graves is out there looking for people. He is trying to make this a better team. Your post made it sound like the Cards have closed up shop and are done for the season.

 

[jmt]

Everytime someone is released, traded or signed by someone else half you guys go into a fit. This is tiring. Let Graves do his job and pass judgement when the games start to count. IMO, Washington is a fat bum (I would have liked Big Daddy though).

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
[bMy point was that Graves is out there looking for people. He is trying to make this a better team. Your post made it sound like the Cards have closed up shop and are done for the season.

Maybe I missed something but I haven't heard reports or even rumors about Graves looking seriously at Washington, Chiki or any of these guys we've been discussing lately. Maybe he took a whiff at Wilkinson but certainly didn't seem to look too hard there. Plus, they are content with McCown as our #2 guy and apparently aren't looking at backup QB's. I think the "win now" folks are getting impatient because the impression (right or wrong) is that by staying pat with what we've got now, the Cards aren't serious about winning this year. I hope you are correct that the shop is open and we are going to look at further upgrades but we've already let some good opportunities slip by.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by jmt
Everytime someone is released, traded or signed by someone else half you guys go into a fit. This is tiring. Let Graves do his job and pass judgement when the games start to count. IMO, Washington is a fat bum (I would have liked Big Daddy though).

That is such a grand generalization. I don't think you saw any of the "darksiders" getting up in arms over Ryan McNeil or some of the other garbage who was cut around June 1st - in fact most of us were ridiculing Graves at that point BECAUSE he had no one to choose from even though he himself said we were gaonna be majopr players come June 1st cuts. Were we mad about the Robinson thing - yeah - we have little faith in our unproven WRs. Are we made when we see DE and DT's out ther who we could use and we don't sign them? Yeah - it's because our d-line has been pathetic for years. If you notice ther is a certain method to this madness - we get upset when we see a player who comea round who we think would help this team - sue us.