You guys owe the Lakers some thanks

[Chaplin]

My sig is a joke, because I have been coming to this board since the rivals.com days, just like I have been going to LakersGround since then. The reason I have that sig, is because guys like Chap and Joe Mama and all the others that have been on here since then, always told me that I am OK for a Laker fan.

Nah, it's because "LSM" sounds like some phunky drug.

 

[LakeShowMan]

Nah, it's because "LSM" sounds like some phunky drug.

Whoa, just had a flashback to college.

 

[elindholm]

Wait, there's a Laker fan who went to college?

 

[az1965]

Wrong.

Kobe is a great individual player but not a team player.

And your evidence for this is:

1. He scores a lot points.
2. His team isn't very good.

Right? Do you have anything else?

Scoring more points implies taking a lot of shots. Rarely do we see ball go out of Kobe's hands once he gets it, a lot of 1 on 1 plays not involving others.

I haven't gone thru the stats but just glancing over last 5 games or so, Kobe took anywhere from 33%-44% of team shots. Looking at the opponents, I think the highest was 28% for any player that included players like Brand, Allen, etc.

I put Kobe in the same category as Iverson and McGrady. Great individual players, great scorers, but do not make their teams better.

 

[jibikao]

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I have been a Laker fan my entire life, and I am 30 years old. The reason that I am a Laker fan, is because of my Dad. So, it is in my blood.

My sig is a joke, because I have been coming to this board since the rivals.com days, just like I have been going to LakersGround since then. The reason I have that sig, is because guys like Chap and Joe Mama and all the others that have been on here since then, always told me that I am OK for a Laker fan.

Next time, you might want to know what the hell you are talking about before you post. I can guaran-damn-tee you that you can't find a bigger Laker fan in the world then me. Hell, my dog's name is Cooper, but I guess I named him that because I am a closet Kobe fan.

I should have figured it out with the name "LakeShowMan"!

I don't mind you being a Lakers fan. This is a forum dude. There is nothing I can do to stop you from being a Lakers fan.

 

[elindholm]

I haven't gone thru the stats but just glancing over last 5 games or so, Kobe took anywhere from 33%-44% of team shots. Looking at the opponents, I think the highest was 28% for any player that included players like Brand, Allen, etc.

True or false: Bryant has a larger skill level gap over his current teammates than any other player in the league.

If Bryant came to your YMCA and joined your pickup game, and your team really wanted to win, wouldn't it make sense for him to take most of the shots?

 

[S_Nash]

I put Kobe in the same category as Iverson and McGrady. Great individual players, great scorers, but do not make their teams better.

This is stupid. It's not up to these players to make their team mates better. It's up to the coach, assistant coaches, training staff, fitness staff, and most of all...THE ACTUAL TEAM MATES!

We're talkin' 'bout practice man....practice...c'mon

Anyone who has a crack about Allen Iverson not making his team better is better suited to the streets smoking PCP, rather than sharing his thoughts on this messageboard. I know that's a bit harsh, but c'mon...

The guy wears his heart on his sleeve everynight and plays with a passion and desire that is unmatched in this league. He's averaging 30 & 9 this year (career year) with a banged up C-Webb who hasn't seen paint in the last 5 years outside of a hardware store, a 2nd year rookie tweener who will put down his worst moment of the season as being robbed of the dunk contest (rather than spiralling out of the playoffs) and a 3 point specialist who isn't exactly special.

Think about it

 

[Yuma]

Once again, I must reiterate:

Kobe better score 80+ a game, because 50+ against us ain't getting the job done!

 

[az1965]

This is stupid. It's not up to these players to make their team mates better. It's up to the coach, assistant coaches, training staff, fitness staff, and most of all...THE ACTUAL TEAM MATES!

We're talkin' 'bout practice man....practice...c'mon

Anyone who has a crack about Allen Iverson not making his team better is better suited to the streets smoking PCP, rather than sharing his thoughts on this messageboard. I know that's a bit harsh, but c'mon...

The guy wears his heart on his sleeve everynight and plays with a passion and desire that is unmatched in this league. He's averaging 30 & 9 this year (career year) with a banged up C-Webb who hasn't seen paint in the last 5 years outside of a hardware store, a 2nd year rookie tweener who will put down his worst moment of the season as being robbed of the dunk contest (rather than spiralling out of the playoffs) and a 3 point specialist who isn't exactly special.

Think about it

Wearing your heart on the sleeve everynight and making your team better are like apples and oranges. Who denies Iverson's hard work and if you bothered to pay even little attention, I did say he is a great player. That does not necessarily mean he is a team player. There are different aspects of the game and various players have idfferent strengths.

So, I suggest you take some deep breaths and think well before posting.

 

[az1965]

True or false: Bryant has a larger skill level gap over his current teammates than any other player in the league.

If Bryant came to your YMCA and joined your pickup game, and your team really wanted to win, wouldn't it make sense for him to take most of the shots?

True.

But that exactly what we are talking about. Kobe can carry a team on his shoulder but not make the players around him necessarily better. You put, say, Nash in his place and these same lower skill players will start playing better. Not necessarily become world beaters, but their play will somewhat elevate. And that's really what we are talking about.

 

[Yuma]

Wow, no Laker fan wants to touch this:

Kobe better score 80+ a game, because 50+ against us ain't getting the job done!

 

[D-Dogg]

Wow, no Laker fan wants to touch this:

Not really much to touch. If his supporting cast continues to go 18/49, then he WILL need to score 80 plus.

 

[az1965]

Not really much to touch. If his supporting cast continues to go 18/49, then he WILL need to score 80 plus.

Conversely, he can choose to be not such a ball hog and involve more his teammates...

 

[D-Dogg]

Conversely, he can choose to be not such a ball hog and involve more his teammates...

We could do this forever.

 

[ShuHanGuanYu]

Yes, he won three championships by being a bad teammate. Don't even say it was all Shaq. Shaq didn't win any titles until a prime Kobe came along either. He probably is a bad teammate right now, but the guys he has are horrible and haven't shown that they deserve the ball in their hands. Before Jordan had a good team, he scored 37 per game. Throughout his career his teammates got on him for taking all the shots. They were a .500 team. They started to add some pieces. Jordan was still the man, but they had a team. Kobe doesn't have a team, and that's not his fault.

 

[elindholm]

You put, say, Nash in his place and these same lower skill players will start playing better. Not necessarily become world beaters, but their play will somewhat elevate.

Good point guards do not make their teammates better. That's one of the most cherished fallacies in basketball, so I don't expect you to let go of it, but it's bunk. Nash's teammates have better numbers because the team has more offensive possessions per game and everyone is enouraged to "let it fly." He is able to engineer an offense in which his teammates can make the most of what they have, and that's why he's the league MVP. But that's not the same as "making his teammates better."

Good point guards have a particular skill for getting their teammates the ball in the right place at the right time. Bryant could use more of this skill, for sure. So could every player in the league except for a very select few, and you can add Vintage Jordan to the list. (Would he be as effective as Nash running the pick and roll with Stoudemire? I don't think so.) But having a relative weakness in one's game is not the same as being selfish. Is Shaquille O'Neal selfish because he can't shoot free throws? Is Marion selfish because he rarely draws shooting fouls? Is Barbosa selfish because he doesn't have a post game?

As already pointed out in this thread, you want to villify Bryant because he's not Magic Johnson. Fine, that's you're right. But replace Bryant on the Lakers with Magic Johnson, and the team wouldn't win any more games. The other players would have better scoring averages, but the team's offense wouldn't be any more effective. By the time Bryant is finished, he'll have more championships than Johnson.

 

[jibikao]

This may sound off-topic (since the gist of this thread has become a Kobe thread), but we won last night against the Kings and Lakers won against the Warriors.

Should we tank the game against the Lakers to make sure we see them in the first round? I don't want to tank so obviously but that's one game that I would let Nash rest 100%.

The danger of letting Lakers win one game is they'll have much more confidence against us. Or, if we tank it too obvious, they'll probably get really pissed and want revenge in the playoffs.

I wonder if Suns would tank in the next matchup.

 

[Yuma]

This may sound off-topic (since the gist of this thread has become a Kobe thread), but we won last night against the Kings and Lakers won against the Warriors.

Should we tank the game against the Lakers to make sure we see them in the first round? I don't want to tank so obviously but that's one game that I would let Nash rest 100%.

The danger of letting Lakers win one game is they'll have much more confidence against us. Or, if we tank it too obvious, they'll probably get really pissed and want revenge in the playoffs.

I wonder if Suns would tank in the next matchup.

Now THAT's a good question! You wouldn't even have to tank. Let Marion and Nash REST that game. Heck, even let Bell take a breather that game, too. Let Kobe get his 100 points, and let us take the night off. Barbosa needs some time at PG.

 

[LakeShowMan]

I know you guys want to face us, and I really can't say that I blame you, especially considering our record against you the last two years.

However, I will add this, be careful waht you wish for, because you might just get it. We have been playing at a much higher level the last month or so.

Now, I do know that we lost to you guys the other day, but it was a second night of back-to-back road games. Not to mention that the previous night was a OT loss to another playoff team, in Denver. If you don't think stuff like that matters, then I suggest you look up stats on teams playing on second nights of back-to-back road games.

We are better then Sacramento, and I can guarantee that we would beat them in a 7 game series right now.

As far as how we match up against the Suns, obviously we haven't matched up too well lately. Plus, I wouldn't say I was overly confident that we would win the series. However, I will say, I think a match up with this Laker team in the first round, is not quite as easy as you all think it will be.

 

[Chaplin]

We are better then Sacramento, and I can guarantee that we would beat them in a 7 game series right now.

LSM, you know how much respect I have for you, but you're crazy.

 

[LakeShowMan]

LSM, you know how much respect I have for you, but you're crazy.

We'll see.

Let me just clarify though. I don't see us beating you guys in a 7 game series, but I really don't think it will be the cake walk that many of you seem to believe. You guys are definetly the favorites, but we really have been a different team of late.

You guys know though, that I'll be here regardless. I will definitely admit that I was wrong, if it turns out that I am.

 

[D-Dogg]

LSM, you know how much respect I have for you, but you're crazy.

I agree with LSM on that, wholeheartedly. We are 2-2 against them this year, with one of the losses being in Sacramento when LO blew a five point lead with 30 seconds left, and we lose in OT.

The Lakers are playing much better right now, and Phil is getting them playoff ready. Miller can't score on Kwame, and Artest is hot/cold. Bibby's the only guy who plays the Lakers strong. I'm much LESS afraid of the Kings with Artest than with Peja. Peja killed us quite a bit.

We'd beat the Kings 4-2, maybe 4-1 if the chips fell the right way.

 

[D-Dogg]

Now, I do know that we lost to you guys the other day, but it was a second night of back-to-back road games. Not to mention that the previous night was a OT loss to another playoff team, in Denver. If you don't think stuff like that matters, then I suggest you look up stats on teams playing on second nights of back-to-back road games.

The last Suns/Lakers game in PHX was also the second night of a back to back for the Lakers, one in which the Lakers had lost to the Kings in OT too. The game that Lamar lost for us...god I was so mad.

So twice we've lost to the Suns on B2Bs second nights after playing in OT losses.

I for one am very excited about the upcoming Lakers/Suns series.

 

[jibikao]

No offense to the Laker fans here, but I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather face Lakers than Kings. Bibby has the history of going ON FIRE against Nash.

We don't need to tank. Just rest Nash and Marion and let the bench players play. Bell and Diaw need some rest too.

 

[jibikao]

I know you guys want to face us, and I really can't say that I blame you, especially considering our record against you the last two years.

However, I will add this, be careful waht you wish for, because you might just get it. We have been playing at a much higher level the last month or so.

Now, I do know that we lost to you guys the other day, but it was a second night of back-to-back road games. Not to mention that the previous night was a OT loss to another playoff team, in Denver. If you don't think stuff like that matters, then I suggest you look up stats on teams playing on second nights of back-to-back road games.

We are better then Sacramento, and I can guarantee that we would beat them in a 7 game series right now.

As far as how we match up against the Suns, obviously we haven't matched up too well lately. Plus, I wouldn't say I was overly confident that we would win the series. However, I will say, I think a match up with this Laker team in the first round, is not quite as easy as you all think it will be.

I am not sure if Lakers is better than Kings. That's a pretty big bold statement to make. And also, Kings have beaten us which Lakers hasn't done in the past 1 1/2 year. Kings is a much well balanced team and Brad Miller/Wells can give Suns some troubles.

Lakers? You just need to worry about Kobe.