Your Arizona Cardinals now hold the 16th pick in the 2025 NFL Draft

[TheCardFan]

My man it's a different league now than it was 10 years ago, which was your MOST RECENT example.

I hear what you are saying but let's look at year 2:

Megatron - 1,300 12 TD
AJ Green - 1250 11 TD
Fitz - 1409 10 TD
Julio - 1,200 10

 

[Cheesebeef]

My man it's a different league now than it was 10 years ago, which was your MOST RECENT example.

not to mention that Harrison actually played at least 1 more games than all of those guys, 2 more than Green and 4 more than Julio, and was still solidly behind the guys from the modern passing era of the league where WR have been making an impact immediately.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I hear what you are saying but let's look at year 2:

Megatron - 1,300 12 TD
AJ Green - 1250 11 TD
Fitz - 1409 10 TD
Julio - 1,200 10

the hope is certainly that he takes that leap.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess I don't understand how you are supposed to evaluate MHJ as a top whatever WR if you don't factor in all of the top whatever WRs regardless of draft status.

Maybe I missed part of the argument where MHJ's rookie season was deemed better than expectations because it was better than Higgins and Collins rookie seasons.

WR1 to me means good enough to be the top WR on YOUR team. He wasn't this year it was one of the reasons our offense wasn't better all year. The design of the offense with multiple TE sets and running the ball often was that we would have a WR1 who would be able to beat coverages and make plays within that system. What we discovered, with a few game exceptions, was he wasn't able to do that.

He was a WR2 playing WR1 this year. Next year I expect he will be better.

I would say anything less than what Collins did in his 3rd season, assuming MHJ is healthy and we don't dump Kyler and tank with a lousy QB, would be a disappointment for MHJ. That's 80 catches 1300 yards 8 TD's. The target to catch ratio will likely be lower because of the nature of our offense, Nico was 80 out of 109, Marv won't likely get to that.

 

[kerouac9]

The target to catch ratio will likely be lower because of the nature of our offense, Nico was 80 out of 109, Marv won't likely get to that.

Charmin had 116 targets this year

 

[Chopper0080]

Counterpoint, they also only played 16 game seasons.

That's why I cited passing yards per game vs passing yards in general.

 

[Chopper0080]

WR1 to me means good enough to be the top WR on YOUR team. He wasn't this year it was one of the reasons our offense wasn't better all year. The design of the offense with multiple TE sets and running the ball often was that we would have a WR1 who would be able to beat coverages and make plays within that system. What we discovered, with a few game exceptions, was he wasn't able to do that.

He was a WR2 playing WR1 this year. Next year I expect he will be better.

I would say anything less than what Collins did in his 3rd season, assuming MHJ is healthy and we don't dump Kyler and tank with a lousy QB, would be a disappointment for MHJ. That's 80 catches 1300 yards 8 TD's. The target to catch ratio will likely be lower because of the nature of our offense, Nico was 80 out of 109, Marv won't likely get to that.

Just to clarify, you mean the #1 receiver on your team, not #1 WR. He was definitely the #1 WR.

 

[Russ Smith]

Just to clarify, you mean the #1 receiver on your team, not #1 WR. He was definitely the #1 WR.

yes. I mean good enough to deserve to be the WR1. He was on our team by default, and he was better than Hollywood when he was WR1, but not by much to be honest.

I haven't sat down and made a list but I don't think I'd have him top 25 in NFL wr's. I think we NEED him to be top 10 next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Charmin had 116 targets this year

Right and only 62 catches. So 18 less catches with more targets. I don't expect him to get to that ratio because our offense put more demand on him

 

[Chopper0080]

yes. I mean good enough to deserve to be the WR1. He was on our team by default, and he was better than Hollywood when he was WR1, but not by much to be honest.

I haven't sat down and made a list but I don't think I'd have him top 25 in NFL wr's. I think we NEED him to be top 10 next year.

A quick check landed at 23 teams having a WR who had more receiving yards than MHJ this season. So, he was the 24th WR1 in the league for what it is worth.

(EDIT: might be 25th)

 

[kerouac9]

Right and only 62 catches. So 18 less catches with more targets. I don't expect him to get to that ratio because our offense put more demand on him

Who takes pressure off Nico Collins more than McBride could/should with MJH?

 

[Russ Smith]

Who takes pressure off Nico Collins more than McBride could/should with MJH?

Dell did before he got hurt. So does Mixon but I see your point. I'm a big Nico fan btw

 

[Harry]

Mock draft by Dane Brugler.

I might take Umanmielen at 16

 

[Chopper0080]

Mock draft by Dane Brugler.

Interesting mock. Was not expecting to see Nolen, Princely and others in round 2. Grant to the Chiefs was also interesting. It's early but a different take for sure.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

This would be great but I keep seeing Princely will be gone before that.

Hmmm …..why pick the theee star over the 5 ? I like Harmon but not at 16….wouldnt it be neat if we beat the rams at their own game? ….they got verse and fiske to terrorize us…..we get 2 from the same team to terrorize them…Nolan and princely….i think he will be long gone by 48

 

[BACH]

No. Drafted #4, you expect at minimum a top 10 WR. Anything less is a failure.

I know that is the consensus thinking in the NFL and the NFL media.

I just NEVER understood that narrative. 40% of 1st round picks flop and it's someway accepted of being part of the draft process. Yet, when a player is playing at a solid level, but never develops to a star player, there is this failure narrative especially from the team that drafted him.

From our team... Leonard Davis flopped as blindside, but because he was #2 overall, the coaching staff wouldn't play him at the lower value guard position, where he was all pro for the Cowboys.

Without the injury, would our RT Jonah Williams be a flop? He was drafted 10th.

PJJ is being critized on this board despite being ranked as 12th of 64 OTs in the league - while only being in 2nd season and has played two positions.

Kyle Pitts is considered a flop, but he is still the 10th to 12th ranked TE in the league.

Clowney is a flop, yet he still starting and is a solid starter in his 10th season.

Draft capital is a sunk cost if the players flops and that is accepted. Why is it so much harder to accept the sunk cost of a top 10 pick when the player is "only" producing at a perceived 2nd round pick.

 

[oaken1]

I know that is the consensus thinking in the NFL and the NFL media.

I just NEVER understood that narrative. 40% of 1st round picks flop and it's someway accepted of being part of the draft process. Yet, when a player is playing at a solid level, but never develops to a star player, there is this failure narrative especially from the team that drafted him.

From our team... Leonard Davis flopped as blindside, but because he was #2 overall, the coaching staff wouldn't play him at the lower value guard position, where he was all pro for the Cowboys.

Without the injury, would our RT Jonah Williams be a flop? He was drafted 10th.

PJJ is being critized on this board despite being ranked as 12th of 64 OTs in the league - while only being in 2nd season and has played two positions.

Kyle Pitts is considered a flop, but he is still the 10th to 12th ranked TE in the league.

Clowney is a flop, yet he still starting and is a solid starter in his 10th season.

Draft capital is a sunk cost if the players flops and that is accepted. Why is it so much harder to accept the sunk cost of a top 10 pick when the player is "only" producing at a perceived 2nd round pick.

I agree.
IMO, in the first round you draft in favor of a high floor, with upside. You have to get value from the pick so you do not gamble and swing for the fences. You get a guy you know can play.
second round you start to swing for the fences...a freak athlete with tons of raw talent but due to coaching or whatever he just hasnt quite put it all together...a lower floor than your first rounder but with a really high ceiling..........as for Marv...we have seen his floor...and its still capable of being a starting WR in the NFL...its all up hill from here,...how far up is the only question

 

[slanidrac16]

I agree.
IMO, in the first round you draft in favor of a high floor, with upside. You have to get value from the pick so you do not gamble and swing for the fences. You get a guy you know can play.
second round you start to swing for the fences...a freak athlete with tons of raw talent but due to coaching or whatever he just hasnt quite put it all together...a lower floor than your first rounder but with a really high ceiling..........as for Marv...we have seen his floor...and its still capable of being a starting WR in the NFL...its all up hill from here,...how far up is the only question

To add, sometimes a player underachieves due to circumstances. For instance, a RB with a very weak offensive line on a poor team always playing from behind.
Some might say MHJ had some reasons beyond his control. Perhaps had he been drafted by the Bills or Chiefs he would have a bigger year.

 

[Chopper0080]

I know that is the consensus thinking in the NFL and the NFL media.

I just NEVER understood that narrative. 40% of 1st round picks flop and it's someway accepted of being part of the draft process. Yet, when a player is playing at a solid level, but never develops to a star player, there is this failure narrative especially from the team that drafted him.

From our team... Leonard Davis flopped as blindside, but because he was #2 overall, the coaching staff wouldn't play him at the lower value guard position, where he was all pro for the Cowboys.

Without the injury, would our RT Jonah Williams be a flop? He was drafted 10th.

PJJ is being critized on this board despite being ranked as 12th of 64 OTs in the league - while only being in 2nd season and has played two positions.

Kyle Pitts is considered a flop, but he is still the 10th to 12th ranked TE in the league.

Clowney is a flop, yet he still starting and is a solid starter in his 10th season.

Draft capital is a sunk cost if the players flops and that is accepted. Why is it so much harder to accept the sunk cost of a top 10 pick when the player is "only" producing at a perceived 2nd round pick.

It is why I put it on the GM and not the player. Also why I point out that disappointing is different than bad.

Amari Cooper is a nice test case for this. Dude was also drafted #4 overall. Most people would argue that he has never been a top WR and that he underperformed his draft status. That said, he is 57th all time in receiving yards and has had almost a 10 year career.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I know that is the consensus thinking in the NFL and the NFL media.

I just NEVER understood that narrative. 40% of 1st round picks flop

If you want to compare guys drafted in the top 5 vs. guys drafted 25-30, I don't know what to tell you. It's just way too huge of a sample size - if you're drafting in the top 5, you're expecting a cornerstone player, period.

and it's someway accepted of being part of the draft process. Yet, when a player is playing at a solid level, but never develops to a star player, there is this failure narrative especially from the team that drafted him.

Yes! The best players are taken in the top 10! If you get a mid guy in the top 10, that's not a win.

From our team... Leonard Davis flopped as blindside, but because he was #2 overall, the coaching staff wouldn't play him at the lower value guard position, where he was all pro for the Cowboys.

Shouldn't have been picked that high if he was only effective as a guard.

Without the injury, would our RT Jonah Williams be a flop? He was drafted 10th.

I don't think that Jonah has played as well as you'd expect for a top 10 drafted player, especially since he's only a RT.

PJJ is being critized on this board despite being ranked as 12th of 64 OTs in the league - while only being in 2nd season and has played two positions.

He's a good but not great player. On top of that, we passed on a pro bowl edge, something we desperately need.

Kyle Pitts is considered a flop, but he is still the 10th to 12th ranked TE in the league.

Because he's not a cornerstone player.

Clowney is a flop, yet he still starting and is a solid starter in his 10th season.

He was an absolute monster in college. Not at all in the NFL.

Draft capital is a sunk cost if the players flops and that is accepted. Why is it so much harder to accept the sunk cost of a top 10 pick when the player is "only" producing at a perceived 2nd round pick.

The best players are taken in the top 10! If you get a mid guy in the top 10, that's not a win.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I might take Umanmielen at 16

Gesundheit

 

[Harry]

Gesundheit

Danke

 

[BirdGangThing]

TRADE UP

we have many needs but one glaring need - to get to the quarterback - hindsight is will anderson - texans moved up to secure the two most important roster spots and look where they are

TRADE UP

we're not going to make some glorious run in 2025 - not with our current qb vs other playoff caliber qbs - i think our ceiling is a winning record which would have us drafting around #20 or so in 2026? time is now

TRADE UP

if anyone has shown they can utilize talent on this roster it's nick freakin rallis - imagine what he can do with one of the top edge rushers in this draft - we can have a playoff caliber defense

 

[Stout]

Danke

Bitte baaaaby.

 

[football karma]

TRADE UP

we're not going to make some glorious run in 2025 - not with our current qb vs other playoff caliber qbs - i think our ceiling is a winning record which would have us drafting around #20 or so in 2026? time is now

if you beleive this, then you should save your draft capital so you can move up next year in a better QB draft class