Youth at WR...

[Goldfield]

I dont remember ever taking 2 WR's at the top of the draft like this. With the addition of Boldin and Johnson, to the second year guys like McCaddley and Kasaper, not to mention Gilmore(who everyone seems to be high on, not me somuch).

We seem to have alot of young talent at WR.


So the question is, do we go with the youth and see what we got? Or do we still need a Vet like Mohammed to lead the way...?


I for one would like a vet in here, but the more I think about it I think it would be fun to watch all the young WR's play and learn right from the start...

 

[ds512az]

I think the young guns will get their chance. But, we need the proven ability of a vet to keep things on an even keil and show the boys the ropes in the NFL.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'd like to see one veteran just to be fair to Blake. A new team, a new offense, and all new WR's, at least with one proven veteran he'll have someone he knows he can count on to pick up audibles and blitzes and coverages that a young WR might miss.

In general though I agree I'd like to see the young guys play so they improve, if Johnson, McAddley and boldin aren't in there every game for at least 15 plays I'll be a bit disappointed I think they all have the best chance for the future. Gilmore is the fastest but I'm highly skeptical of a guy who took 3 years to make our roster at WR, Sullivan is a great coach but I question a guy that raw becoming a good player.

 

[40yearfan]

I side with BEERZ on this issue. It's always been my opinion that if you want to teach someone to swim---throw them into the pool. If they start sinking, pull them out, let them catch their breath and then kick their butt back into the pool. If these guys are real pros and athletes, they'll catch on quickly. They need to get a lot of game reps during the pre-season and then at the start of the season, start the ones who had the best pre-season. With the running game we should have, we can afford to nurse the passing game a little by utilizing F. Jones over the middle and screen passes to Emmitt and Marcel for the first couple of regular season games. That's if none of our WR's have stepped to the head of the class and are a serious threat at the start of the season.<p>Regardless, I think this is going to be one fun offense to watch this season. We're going to have the ability to play smash mouth football with our Oline and Hodgins and shove the football right down a lot of teams throats. A lot less 3 downs and out than last year and finally someone who can throw a football more than 20 yards without having it wobble or land 5 yards in front of the receiver.

 

[JeffGollin]

You go with what you have, and play the hot hand.

If you have the opportunity to improve your roster by adding a talented guy in a loaded position, you do it anyway. And then you play the best players available.

If you only have youngsters, you obviously must go with what you've got.

But, unless you're strapped for cap room (which we definitely are not), you don't pass up a better older player "in order to give promising young guys a shot. Play that game and chances are you'll become a former NFL coach.

In other words, Mac (who is on a short leash as it is) cannot afford to pass up Muhammed in favor of giving McAddley, Boldin or Johnson "experience" (assuming, of course, Muhammed is that good).

The only way that equation can (& should) change is if McAddley, Johnson and/or Bolding can prove they're better and can make Mac confident that they can get the job done right now - not a year or so down the road. (If Mac feels they can win immediately, who needs Muhammed? But 2 of them haven't played a down in the NFL yet).

 

[C++programmer]

We will find out if a young WR will be good if they are able to produce when they are thrown into the fire.

We need no vet WR's

 

[CardNots]

I have to say, I enjoyed watching the young WRs play last year. Most interesting play: Two receivers ran into each other and one fell down.

Can't say I've ever seen that before...

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by CardNots
I have to say, I enjoyed watching the young WRs play last year. Most interesting play: Two receivers ran into each other and one fell down.

Can't say I've ever seen that before...

Yeah, but did we get a first down?

EDIT: And was it a valuable learning experience for each of them that will make them quality contributors in 2003?

 

[Goldfield]

All very good points! I do have to agree that this years offense should be alot of fun to watch...


Who knows maybe they will beable to control the clock like we have been preachin the last few years so the Defence isnt on the field all day long... That in it self will improve the defence...

 

[AntSports Steve]

Do the Cards need a veteran WR?

Depends on your goals. If you want the 1st pick in the draft next year and want to get more experience for your young players, you go into this season with the WRs that are on the team. By the end of the year, the WRs should be trained and ready for 2004. The extra high draft picks should also increase the talent. It wouldn't shock me if the Cards target a rookie QB with this pick if the current young QBs don't work out. Blake is a good 2 or 3 year transisition guy.

Now, if you want to win as many games as possibly, the Cards should spend as much money as it takes and bring in as many vets that are reasonable. The more choices the better the competition for the roster spots, the better the team. You can always cut a vet before the season starts if the your guys prove they are better. So what if you waste some signing bonus, the Cards are $16M under the cap anyway. Consider the money spent as part of improving the team.


Now, seeing as the Cards did not really even try to signup MRob, I would say the Cards are on plan #1 above. If it was me, I would have signed both MRob and MMuh. Possibly cutting one on the final cutdown day and burning possibly $1M of signing bonus. So what. The Cards should consider the money allocated towards the players as the players money. The Cards should not be thinking, "Let's save $10M on players salaries this year to cover stadiaum cost overuns." And it's looking more and more like that's the plan.

To me. Not spending to the cap each and every year is a crime. As a fan, not spending to the cap tells me that the Cards don't really want to win.

Don't be telling me that Graves tried and players went elsewhere for less money. Players like Sanders, Martay, others should have been signed to extensions long ago. (Sanders should have been given a new contract last year that lowered his Cap hit in 2002, and extened him for a reasonable cost. Just paying him all that money last year blew chips).

Right now, Sheldon and other need to be resigned before camp even begins.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by AntSports Steve

To me. Not spending to the cap each and every year is a crime. As a fan, not spending to the cap tells me that the Cards don't really want to win.

Why do some people insist that the Cards don't use all cap space available? Do some research, PLEASE!!! The Cards have always spend all cap space available.

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by AntSports Steve
Do the Cards need a veteran WR?

Depends on your goals. If you want the 1st pick in the draft next year and want to get more experience for your young players, you go into this season with the WRs that are on the team. By the end of the year, the WRs should be trained and ready for 2004. The extra high draft picks should also increase the talent. It wouldn't shock me if the Cards target a rookie QB with this pick if the current young QBs don't work out. Blake is a good 2 or 3 year transisition guy.

Now, if you want to win as many games as possibly, the Cards should spend as much money as it takes and bring in as many vets that are reasonable. The more choices the better the competition for the roster spots, the better the team. You can always cut a vet before the season starts if the your guys prove they are better. So what if you waste some signing bonus, the Cards are $16M under the cap anyway. Consider the money spent as part of improving the team.


Now, seeing as the Cards did not really even try to signup MRob, I would say the Cards are on plan #1 above. If it was me, I would have signed both MRob and MMuh. Possibly cutting one on the final cutdown day and burning possibly $1M of signing bonus. So what. The Cards should consider the money allocated towards the players as the players money. The Cards should not be thinking, "Let's save $10M on players salaries this year to cover stadiaum cost overuns." And it's looking more and more like that's the plan.

To me. Not spending to the cap each and every year is a crime. As a fan, not spending to the cap tells me that the Cards don't really want to win.

Don't be telling me that Graves tried and players went elsewhere for less money. Players like Sanders, Martay, others should have been signed to extensions long ago. (Sanders should have been given a new contract last year that lowered his Cap hit in 2002, and extened him for a reasonable cost. Just paying him all that money last year blew chips).

Right now, Sheldon and other need to be resigned before camp even begins.

<p>Just because the cap is set at a particular figure doesn't necessarially mean that the capital is there to spend to that cap. Signing bonuses and payroll are a function of cash in hand also. With the small amount of revenue streams since 1988, I wouldn't doubt but what the Cards are the most financially strapped team in the NFL. Maybe they have to be frugal due to that fact. I've mentioned this before and had someone say "they should borrow the money if they don't have it". Maybe the money their using is borrowed and they can't get any more. Another thing to keep in mind is the $110 million the Cards are sticking into the new stadium plus any cost overruns that they are responsible for. There are a lot of things in play here that we're not privy to and because it's a private corp. we will never know. We can make an educated guess though once the revenue streams from the new stadium start to come in if the Cards go on a spending spree.

 

[AntSports Steve]

BACH, you over interpeted my statement about "not spending to the cap...". I follow the Cards very closely and know almost exactly how much the Cards have spent in the past. Last year they used up most of thier typical injury cushion so, they came close to spending to the cap.

I'm talking about this year. $16.5M under with almost no one to spend it on. That's a crime.

I also know all about cash flow. The Cards are always behind 1 years signing bonuses in cash on hand. That could be up to $15M.

I'm also sure that the stadium will cause problems in their cash flow over the next 2 years. The stadium is partly financed by an NFL loan (paid back by a protion of the vistors part of the gate). Yes, some will have to be footed by the Bidwills. But the stadium should be seprated from the player finacing. Will future reveneue streams be large enough to pay for the Cards portion of the stadium? If yes, then borrow against the future streams to pay for the stadium. If not, they why are the Cards building a stadium that will cost them more money than they will make?

So in summary, the Stadium cash should be done seperately from the normal running of the team.

Now, I'll restate. If the Cards don't spend to the Cap this year, they are shortchanging their fans as that money is meant to be spend on the players (per the CBA) and not to cover cashflow or stadium costs. Right now, I see the Cards spending upto $10M under, so they don't have get the under payment penalty but that's it. Basicly pocketing $10M when it should have been spent on fielding a better team. That's a crime.

 

[nidan]

Isn't it a little early to be bitching that we havn't spent the cap $$

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by nidan
Isn't it a little early to be bitching that we havn't spent the cap $$

Isn't it too late to be able to spend that money "wisely"? Do you really think that there will be 2 $5 mil. players or 3 $3 mil. players (actual value, not what we'll be paying) available after June 1? I don't, which is why we'll be throwing money away.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by AntSports Steve
Now, I'll restate. If the Cards don't spend to the Cap this year, they are shortchanging their fans as that money is meant to be spend on the players (per the CBA) and not to cover cashflow or stadium costs. Right now, I see the Cards spending upto $10M under, so they don't have get the under payment penalty but that's it. Basicly pocketing $10M when it should have been spent on fielding a better team. That's a crime.

Hey, I agree with you on that. They are currently $16.5M under the cap and need about $6.5M for the injury cushion and to sign the rookies. That leaves $10M to spend. I'm assuming Graves follows his plan and uses some of that money to sign 2-3 FAs after June 1st and then uses the rest to extent Shelton, Thompson, Barrett et al. If that doesn't happen I'll back your opinion all day, but until opening day arrives I'll give Graves benefit of the doubt, because he really tried to spend some of that $10M on Colvin, Holliday etc.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Isn't it too late to be able to spend that money "wisely"? Do you really think that there will be 2 $5 mil. players or 3 $3 mil. players (actual value, not what we'll be paying) available after June 1? I don't, which is why we'll be throwing money away.

Or they could use this opportunity to throw big money at our own players that we want to keep, not throw it away.

Sign Thompson, Barrett, Shelton, KVB, and a few others to contracts with high salaries this year, to make them happy, and also eat up the remaining cap. This would allow us to have a lot of cap room next year as well.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Sign Thompson, Barrett, Shelton, KVB, and a few others to contracts... This would allow us to have a lot of cap room next year as well.

God, I wish this were possible. Please excuse me if I'm skeptical, though. Signing your best players early is a little different that re-signing Fred Wakefield in December.

This would be a savvy move by Graves if he could get it done before October.

 

[nidan]

Sceptical ok, I don't agree but I'll buy that.

But why wouldn't it be possible ?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
God, I wish this were possible. Please excuse me if I'm skeptical, though. Signing your best players early is a little different that re-signing Fred Wakefield in December.

This would be a savvy move by Graves if he could get it done before October.

They did resign their best player last season (offensively). His name was Marcel Shipp...

 

[AntSports Steve]

I'm willing to wait to see where the Cards end up capwise, but the time to spend money (as stated earlier) is past and Graves failed.

You can shout all you want about players took less to play elsewhere, but that's partly Graves fault also. Why? One of the reasons players didn't sign with the Cards is the team, without a QB and none of their WRs, appeared to be headed towards the worst team in the NFL in 2003. You can't go the first 3 weeks in free agency without a QB and no WRs.

If Graves decided to dump Plummer and Boston, fine. Just have a plan in place to quickly replace them. I would have targeted a QB to replace Plummer and got my man within the first few days. The Cards needed to act and look like a team that knows what it is doing. Instead, they acted, like a ship without a rudder and no one knowing whos in charge.

Also, having all 3 starting WRs contracts end in the same year was crazy. One of them should have been re-upped last year to prevent them all from walking. When there is no replacement WR available of reasonable value on the roster, the players have more leverage.

Right now, very few players are under contract for 2005. Each year for the last few years, the Cards had the fewest players under contract at the start of free agency. Other teams lock up their good players. Not the Cards.

Graves is always saying... wait... I have a plan.

Well waiting is what got the Cards in the mess. If you have a plan, then SHARE IT with the rest of us. What's wrong with saying on the opening day of free agency something like this :

"The Cardinals have decided not to resign Jake Plummer. We wish him well. We have open negioations with Blake and are hoping he will be the new leader for the Cardinals. We feel that if we don't get Blake as the Cards new QB, that there are several other QBs out their that we really like, but Blake is our #1 target."

Then, go out and backup your words and sign Blake. Yes, you won't get as good a deal, but the rest of the league will at least know that the Cards have a plan and won't be going with a 2nd year QB for 2003. The Cards look a lot better to free agents with a veteran QB starting. Maybe if Blake was signed day 1, other free agents that the Cards targeted, would have signed here. No one really knows, but the way the Cards did it this offseason was about the worst.

Make a plan. Share the plan. Execute the plan.

Looking at the Cards, I don't see them trying to win this year. I see them saving money to help offset stadium costs. If that's true, then at least tell us that. I would still be mad, but at least, I can start to buy into the plan and get behind the team.

To me, the plan looks to be to try to field a playoff team by the time the new stadium opens. When's that 2006? If so, then I would expect McNown to see some playing time in games when the Cards are behind so they can see if he's the QB of the future or not. If he's not, then what rookies QBs are draftable next year? Then, make sure you get one of those rookies in the draft.

I just think that so far, Graves has botched it. I'm thinking I could do a better job.

On my final rant, the rookes will end up taking $3M, injury buffer should only be at $1M. That still leaves $12.5M to spend. Even if they re-up some players, there's no way they can even come close to the cap. So, the Cards better do some of those cap tricks that push money out into the next year like the Eagles do. There must be some effort to use this extra cap space to gain an advantage in future years.

The NFL is setup so all teams can compete on a fair and level playing field. There should be no reason to not spend all a teams cap money.

 

[MadRob]

By the way, does Freddie Jones count as an experienced receiver???

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by MadRob
By the way, does Freddie Jones count as an experienced receiver???

He counts as an experienced TE.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Back to the topic of WRs, stay with rookies or try to find a veteran that can lead the youngsters. IMO, we must have a veteran who can pick up the system quickly and knows what to expect from pro corners. A true go to guy. Without that, we may get to see a few spectacular moments from the rookies (and I include Kasper/Gilmore/etc as they are relatively new players) but we will lose most games with Blake throwing more INTs than TDs along with getting sacked 40 times but we will end up with that 1st pick next year for Graves to trade away for the 11th and 18th picks, swapping 2nd rounders and giving up a 4th rounder. And probably lose Mac. Sound familiar? We have the cash, lets find someone!!!

 

[arthurracoon]

I'd rather know what our young guys are made of.

Throw them in the fire!

A player who will be succesful will step up, just as Jeff Blake said

Amare stepped up - he wasn't ready

I expect at least 1 of our recievers to step up.