Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

he will likely sink below Murray performance wise over a full 34 game stretch.

Tell me more…

 

[Crimson Warrior]

You kind of have to be viewer based to have any hope for a guy who has not one single significant W in his portfolio. We're not going to compare him to Warner because he will not shine in that comparison. Once he's won Super Bowls, playoff games, or even a clinching game to get to the playoffs, we can start excusing the ups and downs. We're in year 6 and he's led the team nowhere. I get the argument that this is a bad team and that has to be taken into consideration, so, if we set the previous aside, and aside from our preseason expectations thread, where we stated our minimum stats required, what else do we have to go off but what we see on the field?

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Is that it? I can't precisely define good QB play, but I know it when I see it? Fine Stout! We'll disagree again for now.

I admit Murray's 2024 performance grade certainly still hangs in the balance, but if MHJ plays the rest of the season like he did this past Sunday, you'll be doubting Kyler Murray at your own peril!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Tell me more…

Remember how in 2023 CJ Stroud was the darling of the NFL? And how during that season the Never Murray's on AFSN were proclaiming their love and admiration for CJ, and would have done anything to make Stroud the Cardinal's QB1 instead of the brave and courageous Kyler Murray?

Well, well, well kerouac9. How the tables have turned. Wouldn't be quite so quick to take Stroud over Murray now, would we?

The exact same thing is going to happen with Daniels, and it fact it might even be worse since he has Klownsbury as his OC, who is notorious for his 2nd-half-of-the-season fades.

 

[kerouac9]

Remember how in 2023 CJ Stroud was the darling of the NFL? And how during that season the Never Murray's on AFSN were proclaiming their love and admiration for CJ, and would have done anything to make Stroud the Cardinal's QB1 instead of the brave and courageous Kyler Murray?

Well, well, well kerouac9. How the tables have turned. Wouldn't be quite so quick to take Stroud over Murray now, would we?

The exact same thing is going to happen with Daniels, and it fact it might even be worse since he has Klownsbury as his OC, who is notorious for his 2nd-half-of-the-season fades.

I’d still take Stroud over Murray. The Texans beat the Bills. Stroud has over 2100 yards passing.

 

[602 Native]

It's maybe the most frustrating thing about being a big Murray fan, is that, a lot of the guys on here would trade him for whatever QB just had a good game last week.

J. Daniels is a great example. 90% of the main K1 detractors here would trade Murray right this second for Daniels, and wouldn't think twice about it.

It doesn't matter that Daniels' inevitable regression is coming, and he will likely sink below Murray performance wise over a full 34 game stretch.

The Never Murray's are just that desperate to get rid of Kyler and draft the next Trevor Lawrence because they think it will "make the team better".

Murray is giving this sad sack franchise everything he's got, but they want to throw him out like yesterday's garbage. It's pretty offputting.

Hahahaha

"Never Murrays"

Now that is a great name

They don't want us to get ride of K1 now though they want it in 2026

 

[602 Native]

I’d still take Stroud over Murray. The Texans beat the Bills. Stroud has over 2100 yards passing.

And yet without Collins and Diggs Stroud has looked like dog doo.

Amazing what happens to QBs without weapons.

 

[kerouac9]

And yet without Collins and Diggs Stroud has looked like dog doo.

Amazing what happens to QBs without weapons.

LOL. People taking a victory lap one a one-game sample size. Okay then.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’d still take Stroud over Murray. The Texans beat the Bills. Stroud has over 2100 yards passing.

As would anyone else who watches or reports on football.

 

[602 Native]

LOL. People taking a victory lap one a one-game sample size. Okay then.

I’ve ranked my top 10 here unlike you. Stroud was in mine.

Post yours.

 

[kerouac9]

I’ve ranked my top 10 here unlike you. Stroud was in mine.

Post yours.

Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
CJ Stroud
Justin Herbert
Jared Goff
Dak Prescott
Matt Stafford
Brock Purdy
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I would take Kyler right now and in the future over:

Purdy
Prescott
Hurts

Toss up but this week:

Herbert
Stroud

Not mentioned but would take over Kyler

Daniels

 

[Mainstreet]

I would take Kyler right now and in the future over:

Purdy
Prescott
Hurts

Toss up but this week:

Herbert
Stroud

Not mentioned but would take over Kyler

Daniels

Agree, Jayden Daniels looks to be really good. He has the height and athleticism to go with it.

 

[schutd]

It's maybe the most frustrating thing about being a big Murray fan, is that, a lot of the guys on here would trade him for whatever QB just had a good game last week.

J. Daniels is a great example. 90% of the main K1 detractors here would trade Murray right this second for Daniels, and wouldn't think twice about it.

It doesn't matter that Daniels' inevitable regression is coming, and he will likely sink below Murray performance wise over a full 34 game stretch.

The Never Murray's are just that desperate to get rid of Kyler and draft the next Trevor Lawrence because they think it will "make the team better".

Murray is giving this sad sack franchise everything he's got, but they want to throw him out like yesterday's garbage. It's pretty offputting.

I literally have seen exactly ZERO "never Murray"s on this board. The fact that you guys consistently cling to this belief is why nothing can ever be legitimately debated.

I want nothing more for Murray to be successful, because if he is, that bodes well for the team I root for. However, I, like many others simply wish to see his level of play stop swinging wildly between great and meh, and even sometimes head-scratchingly bad. Consistency is what we're pining for. But as soon as someone offers any critique of the guy, y'all label us as Never Murray. It's quite infuriating, actually.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Those numbers look good but, as I said in a previous post, he's played a lot of "I'm not going to lose us the game, but in no way will win us the game" ball. How much have we been clamoring for some "risk it for biscuit" play? So, yes, good numbers, but not good enough play throughout the season. In certain games, he needs to throw caution to the wind and sling it. I love that he did it last game and hope he can do it more...consistently.

I'll disagree with this. He isn't lighting up teams with 400 yard 4TD games, but he is coming in clutch setting up game winning drives. He is doing what wins games.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Agree, Jayden Daniels looks to be really good. He has the height and athleticism to go with it.

The only concern about Daniels and it is a very real concern is that he is RG3 all over again. He doesn't protect himself enough during the game. Outside of a game clinching moment like last week with Kyler, I don't want my QB taking needless hits.

 

[Mainstreet]

The only concern about Daniels and it is a very real concern is that he is RG3 all over again. He doesn't protect himself enough during the game. Outside of a game clinching moment like last week with Kyler, I don't want my QB taking needless hits.

I agree, however, mobility is what makes these players special along with their strong arms.

Daniels has the added advantage of height, which may give him a better field of vision and less need to run.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I literally have seen exactly ZERO "never Murray"s on this board. The fact that you guys consistently cling to this belief is why nothing can ever be legitimately debated.

I want nothing more for Murray to be successful, because if he is, that bodes well for the team I root for. However, I, like many others simply wish to see his level of play stop swinging wildly between great and meh, and even sometimes head-scratchingly bad. Consistency is what we're pining for. But as soon as someone offers any critique of the guy, y'all label us as Never Murray. It's quite infuriating, actually.

Sorry if I upset you.

 

[kerouac9]

I'll disagree with this. He isn't lighting up teams with 400 yard 4TD games, but he is coming in clutch setting up game winning drives. He is doing what wins games.

400 yard, 4 TD games are much more likely to result in wins than having a handful of high-leverage moments in most games where a bad call can put you in the loser’s column.

An untimely hold in a 40-24 game isn’t going to shift the balance. One in a 20-23 game will.

 

[BritCard]

I'll disagree with this. He isn't lighting up teams with 400 yard 4TD games, but he is coming in clutch setting up game winning drives. He is doing what wins games.

As K9 said, what win's games more often is 400 yard 4 TD games.

The fact that he had only the 2nd game of his career recently throwing for 300 yards, 2 TD's and 0 interceptions is a good illustration of this, and his 1st such game was the 6th game of his NFL career.

These are not unusual stats in the modern game and it should be concerning that he went 65 games between them. Someone like Dak Prescott averages a 300/2/0 game every 10 games.

Good QB's put in the yards with their arm AND are great in those clutch moments. It shouldn't be one or the other.

 

[SoonerLou]

I'll disagree with this. He isn't lighting up teams with 400 yard 4TD games, but he is coming in clutch setting up game winning drives. He is doing what wins games.

Every NFL game is tough. The Chargers and the Dolphins had highly ranked defenses when we played them. The Bears and Jets are no different. It will take a team effort to beat both.

Zero issue with him falling in the QBR rankings. My issue is discounting it because it doesn’t agree with someone’s bias against K1.

I listened to the PFF podcast preview the Bears/Cards game. The main takeaway that Kyler isn't a top QB, but he has games or at his best where he's top 3 (or even the best) in the league. The inconsistency has been there for Kyler outside that stretch in 2021. I think Petzing has been kinda mid as an OC, but we don't always know which Kyler we're getting.

Using QBR as an example.

Week 1 (4)
Week 2 (1)
Week 3 (18)
Week 4 (25)
Week 5 (15)
Week 6 (18)
Week 7 (6)
Week 8 (2)


Based on trends he could be in for a below average month.

However, hopefully Kyler finds consistency and continues being a more impactful player. Or at least his lows (based on the day) arent as low.

Again big tests coming up.

 

[Stout]

I'll disagree with this. He isn't lighting up teams with 400 yard 4TD games, but he is coming in clutch setting up game winning drives. He is doing what wins games.

In our wins, yes.

 

[602 Native]

Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
CJ Stroud
Justin Herbert
Jared Goff
Dak Prescott
Matt Stafford
Brock Purdy
Joe Burrow
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

We share some of the same guys at the top.

Putting Purdy above Burrow is lunacy for me.

You would trade K1 for
Stafford
Purdy
Prescott
Hurts
Stroud
Herbert
Goff

Those guys would be awful on this team and I don’t think any of them are better than K1. Goff is the only guy I could make an argument for.

 

[602 Native]

In our wins, yes.

How would someone be clutch in loses? LOL

 

[602 Native]

I listened to the PFF podcast preview the Bears/Cards game. The main takeaway that Kyler isn't a top QB, but he has games or at his best where he's top 3 (or even the best) in the league. The inconsistency has been there for Kyler outside that stretch in 2021. I think Petzing has been kinda mid as an OC, but we don't always know which Kyler we're getting.

Using QBR as an example.

Week 1 (4)
Week 2 (1)
Week 3 (18)
Week 4 (25)
Week 5 (15)
Week 6 (18)
Week 7 (6)
Week 8 (2)


Based on trends he could be in for a below average month.

However, hopefully Kyler finds consistency and continues being a more impactful player. Or at least his lows (based on the day) arent as low.

Again big tests coming up.

Which of those games were missing McBride and or MHJ?

 

[kerouac9]

I listened to the PFF podcast preview the Bears/Cards game.

Well that was your first mistake right there.