Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[82CardsGrad]

That wasn’t my question but alright.

Is there such a thing as "more clutch?" I dunno...I think there are athletes who have demonstrated a propensity to be able to perform, more often than not, in big situations and big games.
IMHO, a QB who has racked up 4 playoff wins, taken 2 separate teams to the post season, 1 to the Super Bowl, has demonstrated an ability to win in big moments more than Kyler.

 

[kerouac9]

Is there such a thing as "more clutch?" I dunno...I think there are athletes who have demonstrated a propensity to be able to perform, more often than not, in big situations and big games.
IMHO, a QB who has racked up 4 playoff wins, taken 2 separate teams to the post season, 1 to the Super Bowl, has demonstrated an ability to win in big moments more than Kyler.

Name your three favorite clutch Jared Goff moments

 

[82CardsGrad]

This sounds like someone who checked a PFR page and didn't remember that Goff was dragged to those playoff wins by Sean McVay and an uber-talented roster. Goff averages 1 TD per playoff appearance.

Jared Goff with wheels is an 85th percentile outcome for Kyler Murray.

Knew you were gonna go there... And so, we're back to "Kyler hasn't been clutch due to bad coaching and lack of talent..." Whatever man...

As always, I seriously hope I'm wrong about Kyler. But I've been uttering those words for 6 years now and all he's done is reinforce my concerns.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Name your three favorite clutch Jared Goff moments

LOL... Not gonna go there K9.
I will say his post season play last season was pretty damn good. Over 3 games, put up a 62% compl %, 4 TD's and 0 INT's, ultimately losing in the NFC Championship game @ SF 34-31.

Again, pressed against a wall and asked to choose between the two, I'm taking that guy over Kyler.

 

[football karma]

Some fun Kyler Murray split stats for this season.

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this is good stuff -- where did it come from? curious about what a good baseline to compare against would be

 

[Chopper0080]

this is good stuff -- where did it come from? curious about what a good baseline to compare against would be

Pro Football Reference

 

[Stout]

Come at me when this organization shows they are competent in any way.

Teflon. Absolute Teflon lol

 

[Stout]

kurt warner and carson palmer both made it to the super bowl with this organization while in arizona

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[MrYeahBut]

A bonified 2 min offense wouldn't hurt matters. The mess we saw at Vikes game wasn't it

 

[Russ Smith]

The thing is Goff has played his entire career either for Sean McVay, one of the elite offensive coaches of this era, or now one of the hot offensive coaches in Ben Johnson.

So we can argue maybe he helped make them both look good, but McVay clearly decided he can't win a SB with Goff and traded him and won a SB, so I'm inclined to think McVay was the key to that partnership. I think Goff is good and hes' gotten better since leaving the Rams, but my suspicion is Johnson makes him look better than he is.

Clearly Kliff wasn't as bad as many of us thought since the Commanders look really good on offense with a rookie QB but I don't think they're going to be having a half dozen teams trying to hire Kliff as HC next year the way Detroit did with Johnson either.

So I think Kyler has had offensive coaches who were not as good as Goff has had. And Goff has done more with the opportunities he's had.

 

[Stout]

A bonified 2 min offense wouldn't hurt matters. The mess we saw at Vikes game wasn't it

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Coach Petzing, assemble the two-minute offense!

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Coach Gannon, we have no two-minute offense!

 

[BritCard]

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

Green Bay were 2nd place in the NFC. While only midseason that game was billed as "Whoever wins is favorite for the NFC".

 

[BirdGangThing]

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when you smoke and eat as much weed as i do - then you can come at me

 

[DVontel]

Green Bay were 2nd place in the NFC. While only midseason that game was billed as "Whoever wins is favorite for the NFC".

But like you said, it was only mid season. That game wasn’t that big.

I’ll help you out with a more legitimate claim. Remember that 2nd Rams game?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

when you smoke and eat as much weed as i do - then you can come at me

LOL

Most of us have to function in the real world and not lose our jobs.

 

[BirdGangThing]

LOL

Most of us have to function in the real world and not lose our jobs.

and there goes bim - who acts like potheads aren't real people with real jobs in the real world - and a mortgage they're going to be finished paying off in 2025 - but go head with your bad self


(how do you block a mod?)

 

[BritCard]

But like you said, it was only mid season. That game wasn’t that big.

I’ll help you out with a more legitimate claim. Remember that 2nd Rams game?

It was big in the context at the time. Big test against a NFC rival after starting 7-0. I agree it's a low bar, but Kyler hasn't been in that many situations to require a big performance.

I remember the 2nd Rams game as Kyler throwing a lot and having big yards but a couple of ugly picks.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm excited that Kyler has the chance to prove himself in a big game. This might as well be billed as our first playoff game since that Rams debacle and I am hopeful he can come through. Hell..... He's had plenty of nail-biters to learn from at this point. Now he needs to make it work.

I'm also extremely pessimistic that he will choose to get the job done over allowing crap plays to be called. He has to have the reigns at this point to make the right calls, set the right protections, or...... if called for........ Just get out there and make it happen with your feet.

Make it happen K1. You must make it happen. I'm guessing the defense won't hold them to 16 points again so you will have to be a big part of why we win. Not just a key cog in a team effort.

 

[MrYeahBut]

and there goes bim - who acts like potheads aren't real people with real jobs in the real world - and a mortgage they're going to be finished paying off in 2025 - but go head with your bad self


(how do you block a mod?)

.

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I mean paying off in 2045...

 

[Outerlimits]

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

So one win among the collapse and they still needed help from other teams to make the playoffs. Granted, it might have been preferable if they hadn't made it since the playoff game was embarrassing.

I certainly hope Kyler plays well and the team win this week. Would be a shame to not take advantage of the surprisingly mediocre division this year.

What is surprising is that i have more confidence in the defense than offense. Never expected that this year.

 

[Russ Smith]

are we talking about a different game with Green Bay? I'm thinking the game where Kyler took us right down the field to win the game, staring at our 1 yard line, and then AJ Green brainfarted and didn't look and Rasul Douglas picked it off to secure the win?

Admittedly Kyler didn't have awesome stats, 2 picks OTD's but the 2nd pick was completely on Green and that was the game D HOp reaggravated an injury on a big catch and run and sat most of the rest of the game, it's precisely why Murray threw to Green at the end, D Hop wasn't there.

 

[BritCard]

are we talking about a different game with Green Bay? I'm thinking the game where Kyler took us right down the field to win the game, staring at our 1 yard line, and then AJ Green brainfarted and didn't look and Rasul Douglas picked it off to secure the win?

Admittedly Kyler didn't have awesome stats, 2 picks OTD's but the 2nd pick was completely on Green and that was the game D HOp reaggravated an injury on a big catch and run and sat most of the rest of the game, it's precisely why Murray threw to Green at the end, D Hop wasn't there.

I'm not sure how your WR not knowing the play isn't down to the guy communicating the plays?

I know everyone wanted to blame that one on Green but how do we think it happened? Either he got the wrong call in the huddle, or more likely it was changed at the line and not properly communicated.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is there such thing as “more clutch“? Goff still choked a huge lead & played awful in the SB. To everybody else, he is still billed as a loser/choke artist. Every QB is outside of Mahomes. It’s such a broad ass term. You might think I’m trying to defend Kyler here, but I’m not.

I think there is. In a scenario where only one QB wins a super bowl each season using that as your sole indicator seems silly. It means there can be only one clutch player per season.

As with most things in life, I think there’s a spectrum. Even mahomes didn’t make the super bowl every season. Does that mean he was unclutch in those seasons? Sure. Because it’s a spectrum. So I think there are those that are capable of rising to certain occasions and not the heights required for others. Thus far, sadly, kyler has not shown the ability to rise to the level necessary to win clinching or playoff games. Literally oh-fer I believe. This game isn’t that because there are still four games left, so a lot of variability. But it’s the closest thing to a clinching game we have had in over 30 games.

 

[kerouac9]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

 

[DVontel]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

I think people only hate Dak because of the team he plays for.