Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[DaHilg]

No he’s not man, lol.

Every offense requires a QB that consistently & accurately passes the ball to their WRs. If you’re offense isn’t stacked personnel-wise, then you’re in really deep shhhhh…

This isn’t 1951.

Well the scheme is one thing.. it is a 1951 scheme. If you’re going to run this type of offense then Fields is your guy.

 

[DVontel]

Well the scheme is one thing.. it is a 1951 scheme. If you’re going to run this type of offense then Fields is your guy.

This isn’t good logic.

 

[DVontel]

not the physical limitations causing the interceptions today, it’s his panic.

I personally believe they go hand in hand.

His physical limitations plays a big part into his decision making. He’s so jittery in the pocket because he’s afraid to get hit which forces him to make throws he should not be throwing.

 

[DaHilg]

This isn’t good logic.

I agree.. but that’s the scheme we are running. We aren’t playing to the talent we have in Charmin and McBride

 

[SoonerLou]

I personally believe they go hand in hand.

His physical limitations plays a big part into his decision making. He’s so jittery in the pocket because he’s afraid to get hit which forces him to make throws he should not be throwing.

The correct answer.

The 2nd int gets avoided if he's willing to get smacked by the edge rusher.

Its a 3 part issue.

1. He doesnt want to get hit.
2. Its greatest gift also becomes a weakness. He's gotta the best twitch in the NFL, but it gets him out of problems but doesn't always give solutions. He doesnt subtly move his feet to throw. He doesn't know how to play "slow". Like Lamar and Mahomes do sometimes to move into throwing lanes.
3. I think its time we start questioning Kyler's raw arm strength or talent when his feet are forced to move or aren't ideal. He cant generate the same power when there are a bunch of defenders around him. Its still fine when he's on the move. Im talking just sidestep, defender running down at him if he can really let it rip. When the last time he's thrown a rope while throwing from a crouched position like Stafford?

The Viking dared him to make the throws that Caleb Williams did a week prior. The Seahawks dared Kyler to make the throws Josh Allen crushed them. There's something about his arm/mechanics that only really showcase his arm strength when he's allowed to throw comfortably. The lack of speed/downfield threat has magnified this issue.

There is no Christian Kirk beating cover 0 downfield where Kyler can just a loft a bomb downfield. I said last year but Monti is building the offense for the QB he wants. If that's Kyler then great. However, the lack of pure speed is going to showcase his limitations.

Long gone are the days when he could make throws like this

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

So the question for him going forward is what is he going to do to compensate for that. He's a guy thats gotta add more tools to his bag or be willing to take more hits in the pocket.

 

[netsnjkidd]

If the Titans move on from Levis. Should the cards take a chance on him

 

[TRW]

No debate about him in my mind.

Too small, too skittish, too moody/pouty/demonstrative (in a negative way), too inconsistent, too bad at reading defenses, just TOO...

Nothing has really changed since year 1 and we are almost through year 6. Even taking into the knee injury and the 2 years to recover he's been, pretty much, what he's always been. I am not surprised at all. At this point I think we've pretty much seen what he is and will be going forward most likely.

He'll be here at least 1 more year but it is far from a "prove it" year, he's already had about 6 of those.

 

[netsnjkidd]

I was one of those give kyler this year to see what he does and im out time to move on. My biggest thing is the pouting and all that sulking he don't inspire no one as a qb. He doesn't have to be the leader but he can set the tone for the team. Your franchise qb cant be in the corner with a towel on his head sulking, get up and fire guys up to go win.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Bottom line is being scared to get hit and playing scared has no place in the NFL. It has completely consumed him IMO.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I was one of those give kyler this year to see what he does and im out time to move on. My biggest thing is the pouting and all that sulking he don't inspire no one as a qb. He doesn't have to be the leader but he set the tone for the team. Your franchise qb cant be in the corner with a towel on his head sulking, get up fire guys up to go win.

Agreed if he came out "balls out" and we lost most would give him the benefit of the doubt. But he's too skittish In the pocket, and looking at the rush he can't do anything but panic.

He has only taken a big hit in the pocket when he doesn't see the rush coming. Keep you head down field forget about the pass rush and throw the ball down field.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I judged a boxing card Saturday night at a casino here in Wisconsin. There was a guy with a lopsided record fighting a guy who was 4-0 with 4 KOs.
He stood no chance of winning but he came out throwing punches and was willing to go out on his shield. He lost a majority decision but earned a draw on my card.

So K1 needs to play with courage and if he goes down at least he can say he went out in his shield. But he just doesn't possess that kind of courage. It's cowardly IMO.

 

[DVontel]

The “pouty/moody” aspect of Kyler is overrated/overstated.

I’ve seen the Josh Allens, Mahomes’, Lamars’, Herberts’ of the world show frustration at themselves & have towels over their heads when they make a turnover.

Guys, no QB is ever happy after throwing a INT or fumbling the ball. They’re all frustrated.

Kyler just isn’t a good QB. All the other stuff you guys are talking about when it comes to sideline commentary doesn’t have to do with his bad play on the field. Stop living in high school drama world.

 

[kerouac9]

The “pouty/moody” aspect of Kyler is overrated/overstated.

I’ve seen the Josh Allens, Mahomes’, Lamars’, Herberts’ of the world show frustration at themselves & have towels over their heads when they make a turnover.

Guys, no QB is ever happy after throwing a INT or fumbling the ball. They’re all frustrated.

Kyler just isn’t a good QB. All the other stuff you guys are talking about when it comes to sideline commentary doesn’t have to do with his bad play on the field. Stop living in high school drama world.

Being bad magnifies the problem. Can’t be a diva when you’re mid.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Being bad magnifies the problem. Can’t be a diva when you’re mid.

It's like playing golf with someone who thinks they're halfway good. They hit a bad shot and start throwing clubs or whatever. Dude, you're not good enough to begin with. Get over it.

 

[netsnjkidd]

The “pouty/moody” aspect of Kyler is overrated/overstated.

I’ve seen the Josh Allens, Mahomes’, Lamars’, Herberts’ of the world show frustration at themselves & have towels over their heads when they make a turnover.

Guys, no QB is ever happy after throwing a INT or fumbling the ball. They’re all frustrated.

Kyler just isn’t a good QB. All the other stuff you guys are talking about when it comes to sideline commentary doesn’t have to do with his bad play on the field. Stop living in high school drama world.

Like @kerouac9 said can't be diva when your mid. prime aaron rodgers had diva but he was 3td to 1int type guy he can get away with it. Even someone like Jameis. Browns fans, coaches, players can tolerate him even with all the picks and pick 6's because every time he puts his cleats on his giving you 1000% everything his got gunslinging diving for 1st downs, firing his teammates up on the field and sideline. There is no quit going down just keep swinging.

 

[DVontel]

Like @kerouac9 said can't be diva when your mid. prime aaron rodgers had diva but he was 3td to 1int type guy he can get away with it. Even someone like Jameis. Browns fans, coaches, players can tolerate him even with all the picks and pick 6's because every time he puts his cleats on his giving you 1000% everything his got gunslinging diving for 1st downs, firing his teammates up on the field and sideline. There is no quit going down firing.

Yea..

And Jameis resorted to being a backup because he wasn’t a good player.

“Hey! My QB might throw 2-3 INTs a game, but damnit, at least he’s firing his teammates up with speeches!”

Yeaaaa…..no.


I want good Quarterback play. I don’t care if you’re the loudest person on the sideline or the quietest person on the sideline.

All the other stuff you guys getting mad over is nonsensical high school football drama.

 

[netsnjkidd]

Yea..

And Jameis resorted to being a backup because he wasn’t a good player.

“Hey! My QB might throw 2-3 INTs a game, but damnit, at least he’s firing his teammates up with speeches!”

Yeaaaa…..no.


I want good Quarterback play. I don’t care if you’re the loudest person on the sideline or the quietest person on the sideline.

All the other stuff you guys getting mad over is nonsensical high school football drama.

Overall im saying show some fight. Once Kyler threw that first int it was over he always looks like he wants to quit. You don't have to be a loud guy to show fight. Burrow isn't like that and his fighter.

 

[DVontel]

Overall im saying show some fight. Once Kyler threw that first int it was over he always looks like he wants to quit. You don't have to be a loud guy to show fight. Burrow isn't like that and his fighter.

Because Burrow is a great QB.

It has nothing to do with his emotions on the sidelines lol

 

[netsnjkidd]

Because Burrow is a great QB.

It has nothing to do with his emotions on the sidelines lol

I believe every great qb has that. It's part what makes them great

 

[TJ]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

I used to be the biggest Dak hater, but I've softened my stance a bit. Not that I really care for him nor would I advocate for him to come to AZ if he were available, but when comparing him to Kyler, it proves that you can have average to above average athletic ability and be successful provided you have the intangibles to play the game. Kyler is probably the 2nd most athletic QB behind Lamar, and sometimes it gets him out of trouble, but as far as intangibles, you cant make the argument that he's superior in that department than the lower-tier QBs, such as Carr, Lawrence, etc.

Kyler is who he is, and I cant see anyone being able to help him develop the requisite intangibles to be a championship-caliber QB. The only thing that will happen is that as Kyler gets older, his athleticism will depreciate, and we've already seen that he cant consistently play in the pocket.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I believe every great qb has that. It's part what makes them great

I like the process that JG and MO go through to make sure a player is "their kind of player" and I really wonder if either of them honestly felt from the beginning that Kyler truly fit that mold. Of course, they go out and say all the right things to the press about him being the guy to lead this team, etc. but he was not their choice at QB. He came with the job. Might be years before we really find out the behind-the-scenes info like that, if we ever do.

 

[TJ]

I like the process that JG and MO go through to make sure a player is "their kind of player" and I really wonder if either of them honestly felt from the beginning that Kyler truly fit that mold. Of course, they go out and say all the right things to the press about him being the guy to lead this team, etc. but he was not their choice at QB. He came with the job. Might be years before we really find out the behind-the-scenes info like that, if we ever do.

I mean, JG and MO were slobbering over Kyler when they came. They went to the statue unveiling at OU and kept lauding over him at every turn. In effect, he was their choice by virtue of the emotional investment they made. I think they would look disingenuous if they alter course and start to act mum about him, even though Kyler needs some tough love

 

[krazy2k]

I used to be the biggest Dak hater, but I've softened my stance a bit. Not that I really care for him nor would I advocate for him to come to AZ if he were available, but when comparing him to Kyler, it proves that you can have average to above average athletic ability and be successful provided you have the intangibles to play the game. Kyler is probably the 2nd most athletic QB behind Lamar, and sometimes it gets him out of trouble, but as far as intangibles, you cant make the argument that he's superior in that department than the lower-tier QBs, such as Carr, Lawrence, etc.

Kyler is who he is, and I cant see anyone being able to help him develop the requisite intangibles to be a championship-caliber QB. The only thing that will happen is that as Kyler gets older, his athleticism will depreciate, and we've already seen that he cant consistently play in the pocket.

Sorry, but Dak is just a slightly bigger version of Kyler. 2024 Dak will not take the Cowboys to a Super Bowl in the future, or even past the first round of the playoffs. Dak is a "garbage stats" guy just like KM, throwing for yards and yards when the game is already out of reach (the no pressure situation). We do not even want to think about Dak in AZ. Jones overpaid for his latest contract by a lot, and he simply hasn't performed (just like Kyler). The Cards need to draft a QB and replace Kyler. As I recall, Tom Brady was at the bottom of the draft but is now the GOAT. May not happen again, but I do trust the Cards to evaluate future talent. Kyler had a lot of talent six years ago. He still has talent. He just can't perform in the clutch and is afraid of getting hit.

 

[Russ Smith]

The correct answer.

The 2nd int gets avoided if he's willing to get smacked by the edge rusher.

Its a 3 part issue.

1. He doesnt want to get hit.
2. Its greatest gift also becomes a weakness. He's gotta the best twitch in the NFL, but it gets him out of problems but doesn't always give solutions. He doesnt subtly move his feet to throw. He doesn't know how to play "slow". Like Lamar and Mahomes do sometimes to move into throwing lanes.
3. I think its time we start questioning Kyler's raw arm strength or talent when his feet are forced to move or aren't ideal. He cant generate the same power when there are a bunch of defenders around him. Its still fine when he's on the move. Im talking just sidestep, defender running down at him if he can really let it rip. When the last time he's thrown a rope while throwing from a crouched position like Stafford?

The Viking dared him to make the throws that Caleb Williams did a week prior. The Seahawks dared Kyler to make the throws Josh Allen crushed them. There's something about his arm/mechanics that only really showcase his arm strength when he's allowed to throw comfortably. The lack of speed/downfield threat has magnified this issue.

There is no Christian Kirk beating cover 0 downfield where Kyler can just a loft a bomb downfield. I said last year but Monti is building the offense for the QB he wants. If that's Kyler then great. However, the lack of pure speed is going to showcase his limitations.

Long gone are the days when he could make throws like this

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

So the question for him going forward is what is he going to do to compensate for that. He's a guy thats gotta add more tools to his bag or be willing to take more hits in the pocket.

On the 2nd one he did the right thing IMO and stepped up. He probably could have gotten the ball out quicker and thrown it before he had to step up but i don't think he did the wrong thing in stepping up. But he didn't "finish" the step up he saw the defender coming right at him and he tried to throw the ball before that hit and didn't get enough on it and the ball floated and was late and picked. If you're going to make that throw that late it has to be to the sideline where if your guy doesn't get it, nobody does.

 

[602 Native]

If you are going to replace a QB you don’t wait till you need one.

Cards better invest in one this draft and sit him for at least a year or two.

You don’t get rid of a serviceable QB without having a plan. Doing so is what the Cardinals have always done and it has been disastrous.