Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If you are going to replace a QB you don’t wait till you need one.

Cards better invest in one this draft and sit him for at least a year or two.

You don’t get rid of a serviceable QB without having a plan. Doing so is what the Cardinals have always done and it has been disastrous.

right. I think it’s probably time to move on from Kyler but people acting like he’s John Skelton. We’d be 3-10 with Fields and cap space right now.

Find a better solution at QB and then you make the change. Until then play the best players you can.

 

[DVontel]

Honestly, I would rather draft a QB in the 4th with some tools than sign Fields. Signing Fields would just continue to hold our receiving options back.

 

[kerouac9]

Honestly, I would rather draft a QB in the 4th with some tools than sign Fields. Signing Fields would just continue to hold our receiving options back.

Why not just start Tune? This is the plan the Raiders are executing.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Why not just start Tune? This is the plan the Raiders are executing.

They’re planning on firing their coach and starting from scratch. Bidwill doesn’t want to do that. At least not yet.

 

[DVontel]

Why not just start Tune? This is the plan the Raiders are executing.

You’re right.

Think I just got too much of that Browns game in my mind. Gotta remember that was an elite defense.

 

[602 Native]

Why not just start Tune? This is the plan the Raiders are executing.

And this is the type of mentality of why I have been so against any K1 push back.
The Raiders aren't a team to copy cat in the right things to do. They are a terrible franchise like us.

Tune should have never been drafted he is beyond terrible and will be the quickest way for us to be right back where we were before K1.

Terrible idea, dear lord.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Why not just start Tune? This is the plan the Raiders are executing.

this would definitely improve our draft but that's about it

 

[Cheesebeef]

And this is the type of mentality of why I have been so against any K1 push back.
The Raiders aren't a team to copy cat in the right things to do. They are a terrible franchise like us.

Tune should have never been drafted he is beyond terrible and will be the quickest way for us to be right back where we were before K1.

Terrible idea, dear lord.

Uh… where exactly do you think we’ve been since drafting K1, besides being perennial losers as usual? Since drafting Kyler, we’ve missed the playoffs 5 of his 6 years with the ONE appearance coming on the heels of a patented pathetic second half of the season Kyler collapse where we backed into the playoffs, promptly followed up by a completely humiliating wild card embarrassment.

 

[602 Native]

this would definitely improve our draft but that's about it

Improve the draft for what?

Its not like MO has been a great drafter so far. Hitting a QB in the draft is super elusive as we have all seen.

 

[602 Native]

Uh… where exactly do you think we’ve been since drafting K1, besides being perennial losers as usual? Since drafting Kyler, we’ve missed the playoffs 5 of his 6 years with the ONE appearance coming on the heels of a patented pathetic second half of the season Kyler collapse where we backed into the playoffs, promptly followed up by a completely humiliating wild card embarrassment.

Way better than we have been in the years before him.

You are forgetting what this franchise was prior to K1. Abject failure and way worse than what you described because there was zero plan for developing a QB.

Keep K1 and draft and develop a guy or pick up a FA that can play and still draft a guy.

 

[slanidrac16]

As it's been stated K1 is a part of the game planning. So I think it's reasonable to assume if he wants to do more of that he would be asking for it. If he still wasn't getting what he wanted he should/would be yelling from the top of South Mountain.

Too much shotgun.
Get under center more.
Throw from the pocket more.
Can’t throw from the pocket.

On and on and on with explanations of just what is wrong with Kyler.

Nothing. He is a middle of the pack qb that can produce a splash play every now and then. Seattle has laid the blueprint on how to deal with Kyler. He is going to find rough sledding here on out. I think we’d be shocked if we could subtract the “ padded stats”.

 

[slanidrac16]

Agree. But then again we likely wouldn’t have counted darnold as one of those options last offseason. So what other highly touted retread might we bring in next year to replace him if he stinks? I’m not thinking tune is anything but a spot holder.

But we won’t. Bidwill will not move off of Kyler. And whether MO or JG disagree they will be good soldiers and keep supporting Kyler and Bidwill.

 

[slanidrac16]

It’s less to do with the contract and more to do with the available options, imo.

We are talking about Bidwill. It is a lot to do with contract.

 

[slanidrac16]

Kyler. As much as I want to move on, he’s at least a league average QB.

Being paid like a superstar.

 

[slanidrac16]

I just wish one day we’ll draft a Mahomes/Allen/Jackson/Herbert/Burrow level QB.

Guys like Hurts, Goff, Baker, Tua, Purdy, are cool, but they’re all flawed.

Ugh.

Where does Kyler fit in your flawed category?

 

[DVontel]

Where does Kyler fit in your flawed category?

Below all of them.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Improve the draft for what?

Its not like MO has been a great drafter so far. Hitting a QB in the draft is super elusive as we have all seen.

#ebk

 

[Cheesebeef]

Way better than we have been in the years before him.

You are forgetting what this franchise was prior to K1. Abject failure and way worse than what you described because there was zero plan for developing a QB.

Keep K1 and draft and develop a guy or pick up a FA that can play and still draft a guy.

Try again. Maybe you forgot where the franchise was prior to K1.

In the six years before Kyler, we were 3-13, 8-8, 7-8-1, 13-3, 11-5, 10-6.

Total record: 53-46-1.

In the six years with Kyler, we've been 5-10-1, 8-8, 11-6, 3-9 (4-13), 3-5 (4-13), and 6-7. Total record with Kyler actually on the field: 36-36-1.

Total record overall: 38-57-1.

Now tell me... which six year stretch is better?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Try again. Maybe you forgot where the franchise was prior to K1.

In the six years before Kyler, we were 3-13, 8-8, 7-8-1, 13-3, 11-5, 10-6.

Total record: 53-46-1.

In the six years with Kyler, we've been 5-10-1, 8-8, 11-6, 3-9 (4-13), 3-5 (4-13), and 6-7. Total record with Kyler actually on the field: 36-36-1.

Total record overall: 38-57-1.

Now tell me... which six year stretch is better?

If we had Arians for five of six Kyler’s years here I can guarantee you his record would be much, much better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we had Arians for five of six Kyler’s years here I can guarantee you his record would be much, much better.

Kyler taking the kind of hits a QB does in an Arians offense wouldn't last a full season.

Again, people want to say Kyler never had good offensive coaching is just unfounded, bashing Kliff. But in his first job somewhere else in the league, he's got a rookie QB leading what everyone thought would be a terrible Washington team, to the playoffs.

 

[tennis-player]

If we had Arians for five of six Kyler’s years here I can guarantee you his record would be much, much better.

Kyler could not play in Arian's offense. Palmer said that it took a long time for him to learn it because it was the most complicated offense he ever played in. Kyler would be unable to stand in the pocket and wait for plays to develop. Arians would have no patience for Kyler's ad libs.

 

[DVontel]

Man, all of this just sucks so much. Prepared for sad post below.

I’ve been watching Kyler since his days at Allen. Everybody know who Kyler Murray was whether if you were in DFW, West Texas, East Texas, etc, guy was a Superstar. From his days at A&M to OU. I’m not a fan of either college, but I still followed his progression throughout. I was happy we drafted him after moving on from Rosen. I’ve been rooting for him not only because he was the QB for my favorite professional team, but as a young black man myself, I have LONG rooted for a black QB to be the franchise QB for this team. This honestly hurts me a lot more than it does you guys.

He just doesn’t have what it takes to perform at the level where it’s most critical. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental. Really hurts to admit. I don’t hate Kyler & never will unless he commits a heinous crime. I will still root for his success, but I still care about this team’s success at the end of the day.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man, all of this just sucks so much. Prepared for sad post below.

I’ve been watching Kyler since his days at Allen. Everybody know who Kyler Murray was whether if you were in DFW, West Texas, East Texas, etc, guy was a Superstar. From his days at A&M to OU. I’m not a fan of either college, but I still followed his progression throughout. I was happy we drafted him after moving on from Rosen. I’ve been rooting for him not only because he was the QB for my favorite professional team, but as a young black man myself, I have LONG rooted for a black QB to be the franchise QB for this team. This honestly hurts me a lot more than it does you guys.

He just doesn’t have what it takes to perform at the level where it’s most critical. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental. Really hurts to admit. I don’t hate Kyler & never will unless he commits a heinous crime. I will still root for his success, but I still care about this team’s success at the end of the day.

I get all of this. The saddest part for me is realizing the team just wasted 6 years... and likely will have to waste at least another if we continue the charade of him being a QB that can take us to the playoffs, which means wasting all of our time for at least another year.

If Kyler had come out and played decent on Sunday and we lost a shoot-out, he probably gets more rope. But man... to come out, after the last two 4th quarter melt-downs, echoing the previous second half of season collapses, and immediately stink up the field in yet another huge "Prove It!" game was such the proverbial nail in the coffin of the last six years that it was almost too blatant to believe.

I hold no ill will against him. Never gets into any kind of trouble. Seems like a good dude. He just ain't a good QB. That doesn't mean he's a terrible QB. He's as mid as they come. But we can't keep paying a mid-QB 50 million dollars a year. That's insanity that will only keep this team in the same purgatory/hell they've been in since he was drafted.

 

[slanidrac16]

Man, all of this just sucks so much. Prepared for sad post below.

I’ve been watching Kyler since his days at Allen. Everybody know who Kyler Murray was whether if you were in DFW, West Texas, East Texas, etc, guy was a Superstar. From his days at A&M to OU. I’m not a fan of either college, but I still followed his progression throughout. I was happy we drafted him after moving on from Rosen. I’ve been rooting for him not only because he was the QB for my favorite professional team, but as a young black man myself, I have LONG rooted for a black QB to be the franchise QB for this team. This honestly hurts me a lot more than it does you guys.

He just doesn’t have what it takes to perform at the level where it’s most critical. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental. Really hurts to admit. I don’t hate Kyler & never will unless he commits a heinous crime. I will still root for his success, but I still care about this team’s success at the end of the day.

Well said!

 

[SoonerLou]

Man, all of this just sucks so much. Prepared for sad post below.

I’ve been watching Kyler since his days at Allen. Everybody know who Kyler Murray was whether if you were in DFW, West Texas, East Texas, etc, guy was a Superstar. From his days at A&M to OU. I’m not a fan of either college, but I still followed his progression throughout. I was happy we drafted him after moving on from Rosen. I’ve been rooting for him not only because he was the QB for my favorite professional team, but as a young black man myself, I have LONG rooted for a black QB to be the franchise QB for this team. This honestly hurts me a lot more than it does you guys.

He just doesn’t have what it takes to perform at the level where it’s most critical. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental. Really hurts to admit. I don’t hate Kyler & never will unless he commits a heinous crime. I will still root for his success, but I still care about this team’s success at the end of the day.

Maybe he'll have a Baker or Darnold resurgence elsewhere. However, we've seen enough to know its just not happening here.

Speaking of OU/A&M. I think bottoming out at A&M and having to go through years of backing up Baker, not being named starter until the week before at OU was the best thing to happen to his college career. Unfortunately, I think Kyler took the wrong lessons with him to the NFL.

He clearly didn't have the maturity early on to help uplift the organization. He believed there were crappy people in charge and he knew everything about winning. I bring this up because I truly do believe he has matured, but not closing the deal in 2020 and 2021 is what makes this recent 2nd half dip all the more disappointing. If we just saw multiple playoff appearances, maybe a win or two. We'd just look at the big picture of seeing we're still somewhat ahead of schedule roster wise, we still have a potential monster free agency, the young players can get better, etc.

However, 2020/2021 just make 2024 clear that he'll likely not be that guy. He couldn't close the deal with much better talent and TBH a better play caller. So why have hope in the future?

I fear we would have been better served sitting Kyler the entire 2023 season and just getting Williams, Daniels or Maye. And bite the bullet (if possible) like Denver did with Russ. Cause the gap isn't glaring and those guys at least have the potential to be better than what we've seen. Its sad.

He's gotta go undefeated to regain some goodwill and even then that wont matter if we don't make the playoffs. Some would say he'd still need to do more.