12/23: Suns at Heat Game Thread

[jagu]

"These days"? When was he not?

Yea, back in Cleveland it was all King Lebron. His arrogant ways were shrouded by his skills.

 

[TBaslim]

"These days"? When was he not?

Fair enough. I didn't watch a lot of Cleveland games the last few years. He seemed less of a punk in his first season or two.

 

[BC867]

What was up with Gortat repeatedly getting the ball at the top of the key? What were we trying to do offensively?

I wondered the same thing. Was it to set up pick-and-roll plays? The little time Gortat was on the floor with Nash, Steve was smothered.

Gortat needs to spend maximum time on the floor with Steve. That means starting. I said in another thread that it would take three games. i hope it doesn't take any longer.

 

[jagu]

I wondered the same thing. Was it to set up pick-and-roll plays? The little time Gortat was on the floor with Nash, Steve was smothered.

Gortat needs to spend maximum time on the floor with Steve. That means starting. I said in another thread that it would take three games. i hope it doesn't take any longer.

That made no sense, what is he doing that far from the basket!

 

[AnotherHOMER]

People actually think we have a team that can compete against...anyone. Crazy.

Just watch, enjoy the sport. Dont expect a win. Just be glad when a win happens. Get comfortable with a really bad next few years. Our best hope is Sarver sells the Suns.

Also...please trade Nash to a contender. Help the guy out in getting a ring.

 

[jagu]

I don't know if Dragic sees himself as a PG anymore, a few plays he passed the ball off and ran away like he wanted nothing to do with the play.

 

[sunsfan88]

So we could see him run wildly into the paint and have his shot sent into the stands over and over again?

He could handle being the playmaker on the court. Dragic can't.

Our bench hasn't played with that swagger ever since Barbosa left. Say what you want but he along with Nash helped turn around this franchise.

Dragic needs another playmaker with him in order to be successful. Barbosa was just that.

 

[Evil Ash]

He could handle being the playmaker on the court. Dragic can't.

Our bench hasn't played with that swagger ever since Barbosa left. Say what you want but he along with Nash helped turn around this franchise.

Dragic needs another playmaker with him in order to be successful. Barbosa was just that.

The Suns were regularly getting 40+ points off of the bench. They had swagger and there was plenty of offense to go around. The problem was we continued to get killed on the boards and in the paint, which is the reason we went after Gortat.

Dragic just seems to be a different player when he has no confidence in his shot.

 

[sunsfan88]

Suns better blow out their opponents in the upcoming 4 games. All are garbage teams.

 

[jagu]

He could handle being the playmaker on the court. Dragic can't.

Our bench hasn't played with that swagger ever since Barbosa left. Say what you want but he along with Nash helped turn around this franchise.

Dragic needs another playmaker with him in order to be successful. Barbosa was just that.

If I'm building a championship team, Barbosa is not on it. No D, is invisible in playoff time and calls the Spurs his daddy. I think when Dudley is shooting well, he is a solid compliment to Dragic's game. Right now he has no guards that can put in threes and Warrick who is a dive player (something Dragic is not good at yet is PnR). Once Carter comes back, putting JD back on the bench will help him. Dragic though has major issues in confidence this year and its glaring..

 

[Covert Rain]

The sooner we yank Robin Lopez out of the starting lineup the sooner we get on a better path to rebounding. Having your starting center get a whopping 5 rebounds in a game again is pathetic.

Maybe I am being impatient but I want Gortat to start right now. I never thought I would see a big man make Amare look like a good rebounder but that is Lopez. I know MP and MG need to get integrated but until they do this team will continue to be horrible at both rebounding and defense.

Lopez is not starting NBA center material IMO.

 

[sunsfan88]

If I'm building a championship team, Barbosa is not on it. No D, is invisible in playoff time and calls the Spurs his daddy. I think when Dudley is shooting well, he is a solid compliment to Dragic's game. Right now he has no guards that can put in threes and Warrick who is a dive player (something Dragic is not good at yet is PnR). Once Carter comes back, putting JD back on the bench will help him. Dragic though has major issues in confidence this year and its glaring..

Yea Warrick does nothing for us other than hurt us.

Trading him away would be addition by subtraction. Then we can play Lawal who is basically a younger and more inexperienced Lou.

 

[sunsfan88]

The sooner we yank Robin Lopez out of the starting lineup the sooner we get on a better path to rebounding. Having your starting center get a whopping 5 rebounds in a game again is pathetic.

Maybe I am being impatient but I want Gortat to start right now. I never thought I would see a big man make Amare look like a good rebounder but that is Lopez. I know MP and MG need to get integrated but until they do this team will continue to be horrible at both rebounding and defense.

Lopez is not starting NBA center material IMO.

Lopez does well when he's paired with another big man. He can't handle the pressure of being the only man in the paint.

That's why Frye needs to head to the bench because he is a shooter and that helps Dragic. Gortat is a big man and that will help Lopez.

Its a win-win. Just wonder how long til Gentry figures this out.

 

[BC867]

Dragic though has major issues in confidence this year and its glaring..

I've been a big fan of Dragic, hoping he would develop as Steve once did.

But playing behind a Point Guard legend who leads the team in minutes played despite his advancing age does not build skills or, as you said, confidence.

I guess the ideal situation at this time for a backup Point Guard would be a journeyman who has already developed Point Guard skills and would enjoy whatever minutes he gets. One who has defensive skills, as well. And a little bit more size.

Even then, it would be difficult for him to do well in the offensive system designed for Steve.

 

[JS22]

The sooner we yank Robin Lopez out of the starting lineup the sooner we get on a better path to rebounding. Having your starting center get a whopping 5 rebounds in a game again is pathetic.

Maybe I am being impatient but I want Gortat to start right now. I never thought I would see a big man make Amare look like a good rebounder but that is Lopez. I know MP and MG need to get integrated but until they do this team will continue to be horrible at both rebounding and defense.

Lopez is not starting NBA center material IMO.

I watched Lopez closely for the first time in awhile. I've always thought he had bad hands, but last night it was RIDICULOUS. So many missed rebounds, passes, etc.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I watched Lopez closely for the first time in awhile. I've always thought he had bad hands, but last night it was RIDICULOUS. So many missed rebounds, passes, etc.

That isn't what bugs me about the guy, it's that annoying habit of his on D that gets me. I cringe everytime he steps out on defense as if he's going to double, he gets just close enough to the opponent to pick off his own teammate and than he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off, looking for some other teammate to set a pick on. He helps our defense in other ways but this aspect is very frustrating.

As for Gortat, I really hope last night was a lack of familiarity on his part. Otherwise, he has a real problem keeping track of both "man and ball".

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

He could handle being the playmaker on the court. Dragic can't.

Our bench hasn't played with that swagger ever since Barbosa left. Say what you want but he along with Nash helped turn around this franchise.

Dragic needs another playmaker with him in order to be successful. Barbosa was just that.

What the heck are you talking about? Barbosa was NEVER a playmaker. That was the team's biggest issue before Dragic was drafted. Gentry/Porter/D'Antoni wanted Barbosa to be our backup PG, but he could never do it. He has no feel for running an offense, let alone having any playmaking ability. I like the kid for his instant offense possibilities, but the last few years here he didn't even have that.

 

[Chaplin]

As for Gortat, I really hope last night was a lack of familiarity on his part. Otherwise, he has a real problem keeping track of both "man and ball".

Steve

Disagree. We saw that from Hakim Warrick the whole time he was on the floor. Remember all those freebies Bosh got? It was because Warrick was attempting to guard him. Frye was a little bit better, but for all their talk, I don't remember seeing Gortat AND Lopez on the floor at the same time. I remember wondering why because I thought Gortat would be an interesting matchup with Bosh, but instead Alvin had Marcin on Joel Anthony or Big Z the whole time.

 

[Lorenzo]

how were the calls in that game?

in the game the other night against dallas I counted like 6 or 7 consecutive trips to the FT down the stretch for the heat's star players. on one play lebron got an and 1 on a dunk where no one even touched him. I think that was when the game was decided already, but it still bothered me.

 

[Covert Rain]

Lopez does well when he's paired with another big man. He can't handle the pressure of being the only man in the paint.

That's why Frye needs to head to the bench because he is a shooter and that helps Dragic. Gortat is a big man and that will help Lopez.

Its a win-win. Just wonder how long til Gentry figures this out.

Not going to happen. At least very much. After listening to Gentry on the Radio, he doesn't want to do that because he needs Lopez/Gortat to back each other up. So, that means one will be a starter and the other won't.

Also, there is no evidence that Lopez in the lineup with another big will improve his rebounding. We have to have rebounding at both positions. He also plays below the rim like no other 7 footer I have seen in a long time. He will suck no matter what.

It's time for Lopez to go to the bench where he belongs.

 

[Lorenzo]

man I miss living in a NBA city like phoenix. I am a mavs fan and hope to move back to dfw one day, but it sure was great watching those suns teams on a nightly basis with nash/amare/marion/etc. those were some exciting games they played with dallas/SA/LA....i got to go to the game when raja tackled kobe...and the game 2 of the dallas series when dirk iced the game on a last second shot. unfortunately that was the series where nash put a dagger on us in dallas in game 6. but the next year we won when amare was on the bench.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Disagree. We saw that from Hakim Warrick the whole time he was on the floor. Remember all those freebies Bosh got? It was because Warrick was attempting to guard him. Frye was a little bit better, but for all their talk, I don't remember seeing Gortat AND Lopez on the floor at the same time. I remember wondering why because I thought Gortat would be an interesting matchup with Bosh, but instead Alvin had Marcin on Joel Anthony or Big Z the whole time.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with here, Chap. Are you telling me I didn't see Gortat lose sight of either his man or the ball on several occasions? I'm not blaming him for the loss nor am I excusing Warrick. I'm just making a blanket statement about what I saw from Gortat last night without regard to anyone else's performance. It's my hope that he was just overwhelmed playing with new guys and was unsure of his defensive assignment but I can't help being a little concerned.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Not going to happen. At least very much. After listening to Gentry on the Radio, he doesn't want to do that because he needs Lopez/Gortat to back each other up. So, that means one will be a starter and the other won't.

Also, there is no evidence that Lopez in the lineup with another big will improve his rebounding. We have to have rebounding at both positions. He also plays below the rim like no other 7 footer I have seen in a long time. He will suck no matter what.

It's time for Lopez to go to the bench where he belongs.

Actually there is evidence that if Lopez is paired with a real big man, the team as a whole rebounds better. For example last year with Amare, when Lopez was starting we were 11th in the NBA in rebounds.

Then when he was with his brother Brook, Standford was an excellent rebounding team.

Here's the thing about Lopez from what I have noticed. He has awful hands, but he can box out his man extremely well. So if paired with Gortat, then assuming Gortat can box out his own man, we'll get a lot more rebounds.

Just an observation. Its worth a try IMO. Especially in our upcoming matchup against the Clippers. I doubt Frye & Lopez can handle Kaman & Griffin.

 

[BC867]

It's my hope that he was just overwhelmed playing with new guys and was unsure of his defensive assignment but I can't help being a little concerned.

Steve

I wouldn't be concerned yet over 18 minutes (out of 48) in his first game as a Sun, a team which has not historically been in the forefront of coaching the post. As Chap said, "I thought Gortat would be an interesting matchup with Bosh, but instead Alvin had Marcin on Joel Anthony or Big Z the whole time."

I believe the first part of your sentence is the key to the situation before we become concerned about Gortat's capabilities.

I am concerned, however, that he was almost exclusively assigned to play high post on offense throughout those 18 minutes.

Concerned about Gortat - no. Concerned about the Suns historic mis-use of big men on offense - yes, until that changes.

Now that Gentry has the horses, I hope he brings the Suns a new identity. It's never too late.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm concerned that our HC Gentry doesn't have the basketball IQ to figure out Warrick is wrong for this team and should just ride the pine while someone who actually brings energy and defense like Lawal should play over him.

I'm not surprised though. It took him a while to realize Turkoglu is not a starter, then it took him a lot of time again to find out that Turkoglu is wrong for this team period.

Warrick brings this team down. While his air ball dunks are quite hilarious, he doesn't do anything defensively or on the boards. He's good occasionally running the PnR with Nash but that's about it.

And now we have Gortat who is a better PnR player than Warrick. Gortat has the size to finish in traffic while Warrick continues to air dunk.