2011 Draft Thread

[sunsfan88]

I think every Suns fan knows that we will never ever have a player like Nash again...just like Bulls fans know they won't have another MJ, Laker fans know that about Kobe, Cleveland about LBJ, Miami about Wade, Boston about Bird, San Antonio about Duncan, Orlando about Howard etc.

 

[tobiazz]

Eh no, he was a not highly regarded midget PG that surprised people early and was absolutely horrific this year.

And even if it is not like those players always work out, Brooks certainly didn't.

Plus Brooks is FA and wants money which is why Houston wanted to get rid of him even more.

Plus we gave up a draft pick and a prospect not much worse than him if at all to get him..

I'm not advocating Brooks by any means, his "good" season came as an inefficient volume shooter. But these other guys you bring up have no star potential either. I would swap Brooks for Hill (duh). He could become good enough next to Gortat. Williams is a tease like Earl Clark and Thabeet has the coordination of a newborn calf.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think every Suns fan knows that we will never ever have a player like Nash again...just like Bulls fans know they won't have another MJ, Laker fans know that about Kobe, Cleveland about LBJ, Miami about Wade, Boston about Bird, San Antonio about Duncan, Orlando about Howard etc.

uh, i love Nash but he ain't close to the level of most of those guys up there.

 

[sunsfan88]

I know but I'm just sayin that when you get a unique and great player like Nash, you won't get another guy like that.

 

[BC867]

I know but I'm just sayin that when you get a unique and great player like Nash, you won't get another guy like that.

We didn't get a unique and great player like Nash, or didn't recognize his potential, the first time we got Steve. We traded him to Dallas, who developed him.

Granted he was behind Kidd and KJ with the Suns (just as Dowdell is our #3 Point Guard now), but a good coaching staff is supposed to recognize potential. It is interesting that Gentry has done that with Dowdell.

 

[slinslin]

We didn't get a unique and great player like Nash, or didn't recognize his potential, the first time we got Steve. We traded him to Dallas, who developed him.

Granted he was behind Kidd and KJ with the Suns (just as Dowdell is our #3 Point Guard now), but a good coaching staff is supposed to recognize potential. It is interesting that Gentry has done that with Dowdell.

Your love for our scrub players is incredible. Siler, Dowdell and the other NBDL quality players we have.

Steve Nash still took years in Dallas before he became a good player.

 

[carey]

Some people are in love with potential. Just ask Larry Brown.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We didn't get a unique and great player like Nash, or didn't recognize his potential, the first time we got Steve. We traded him to Dallas, who developed him.

Granted he was behind Kidd and KJ with the Suns (just as Dowdell is our #3 Point Guard now), but a good coaching staff is supposed to recognize potential. It is interesting that Gentry has done that with Dowdell.

Nice job of re-writing history. We recognized his potential but we had a franchise player at the point guard spot and Steve didn't want to spend his career as a shooting guard or as Kidd's backup. As for Dallas developing him, you could just as easily say that the Mavs didn't recognize his potential when they had him. They let him go to Phoenix, who developed him and allowed him to become a 2 time MVP, future HOFer superstar instead of the pretty good point guard he had been in Texas. And it's not like we gave him away in the first place.

Steve

 

[carey]

Nice job of re-writing history. We recognized his potential but we had a franchise player at the point guard spot and Steve didn't want to spend his career as a shooting guard or as Kidd's backup. As for Dallas developing him, you could just as easily say that the Mavs didn't recognize his potential when they had him. They traded him to Phoenix, who developed him and allowed him to become a 2 time MVP, future HOFer superstar instead of the pretty good point guard he had been in Texas. And it's not like we gave him away in the first place.

Steve

Who's re-writing history now? He wasn't traded to the Suns. He was a FA, and Nash even gave Cuban the option of matching the Suns offer of which he famously declined.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who's re-writing history now? He wasn't traded to the Suns. He was a FA, and Nash even gave Cuban the option of matching the Suns offer of which he famously declined.

Actually, I caught my error so quickly I was able to correct it without it showing up as an edit. Unfortunately, you were also quick to catch my mistake. Just wait till the next time you misspeak and see who's waiting to pounce.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nice job of re-writing history. We recognized his potential but we had a franchise player at the point guard spot and Steve didn't want to spend his career as a shooting guard or as Kidd's backup. As for Dallas developing him, you could just as easily say that the Mavs didn't recognize his potential when they had him. They let him go to Phoenix, who developed him and allowed him to become a 2 time MVP, future HOFer superstar instead of the pretty good point guard he had been in Texas. And it's not like we gave him away in the first place.

Steve

Yep. We had Kidd. We had what we knew would be two starting pgs so we traded for an unprotected lottery pick, which became Shawn Marion. We then went and signed him back for what now looks like a bargain deal. Cuban thought Nash was going to decline. The Suns look like the more prescient team in the Nash story.

BC. You complained about Colangelo repeatedly. But this was a well-run franchise from top to bottom under JC. You wanted new ownership. Well, you got it.

Be carefuly what you wish for.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am thankful for the quick edit to clean up some of my messes. However, I have gotten caught with my hand in the cookie jar as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yep. We had Kidd. We had what we knew would be two starting pgs so we traded for an unprotected lottery pick, which became Shawn Marion. We then went and signed him back for what now looks like a bargain deal. Cuban thought Nash was going to decline. The Suns look like the more prescient team in the Nash story.

BC. You complained about Colangelo repeatedly. But this was a well-run franchise from top to bottom under JC. You wanted new ownership. Well, you got it.

Be carefuly what you wish for.

It was a sad day when JC sold the Suns. He made mistakes as any owner does but he was quick to do a 360 and correct them. I also miss the openness of that organization with the fans.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It was a sad day when JC sold the Suns. He made mistakes as any owner does but he was quick to do a 360 and correct them. I also miss the openness of that organization with the fans.

I loved knowing that Jerry was going to do what he could to try and improve the team. I didn't agree with every move he made but I never had any doubt that he was trying to put us into a position to compete at the highest level. I'm not convinced that Sarver isn't also trying to do this but the mistakes this organization have made under have him have been so "penny wise, pound foolish" that it's hard to know for sure.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am thankful for the quick edit to clean up some of my messes. However, I have gotten caught with my hand in the cookie jar as well.

A wise man would do a thorough job of proof reading BEFORE they submit. At least, I think that's what a wise man would do - if I see one, I'll ask.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I loved knowing that Jerry was going to do what he could to try and improve the team. I didn't agree with every move he made but I never had any doubt that he was trying to put us into a position to compete at the highest level. I'm not convinced that Sarver isn't also trying to do this but the mistakes this organization have made under have him have been so "penny wise, pound foolish" that it's hard to know for sure.

Steve

I firmly believe Sarver could save money by paying the money upfront by hiring good basketball people to run the franchise. However, for some reason Sarver is unwilling hire and then let good basketball personnel make decisions. I'm not sure if it's ego or what it is, but he just will not let go of the steering wheel.

 

[Mainstreet]

A wise man would do a thorough job of proof reading BEFORE they submit. At least, I think that's what a wise man would do - if I see one, I'll ask.

Steve

I generally reread by posts but I should use "preview posts" more. There is something about when I post it live, I see all the mistakes.

 

[slinslin]

It was a sad day when JC sold the Suns. He made mistakes as any owner does but he was quick to do a 360 and correct them. I also miss the openness of that organization with the fans.

360?

Makes sense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I generally reread by posts but I should use "preview posts" more. There is something about when I post it live, I see all the mistakes.

I usually do Preview but for some reason the errors jump out at me more convincingly once I've submitted the post.

Steve

 

[BC867]

BC. You complained about Colangelo repeatedly. But this was a well-run franchise from top to bottom under JC. You wanted new ownership. Well, you got it.

Jerry was a great owner, an outstanding marketing guy (for both the Suns/D'backs and development of downtown Phoenix) and a good politician (with the Phoenix 40, which ran the city back in the day).

My gripe with him was as General Manager. His obsession with small ball formed the foundation of our 50-and-fade mentality. Put on a good show at home; don't embarrass yourself on the road; and make an appearance in the playoffs.

Most of his time here was as a GM. Of course by naming his son as GM when he became owner meant Jerry was still calling the shots as GM, as well as overseeing all activities of the team.

My evaluation of Jerry was a great owner (short-term) and a mediocre GM (long-term). I don't expect every fan to agree. Sarver, without question, is a lousy owner.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jerry was a great owner, an outstanding marketing guy (for both the Suns/D'backs and development of downtown Phoenix) and a good politician (with the Phoenix 40, which ran the city back in the day).

My gripe with him was as General Manager. His obsession with small ball formed the foundation of our 50-and-fade mentality. Put on a good show at home; don't embarrass yourself on the road; and make an appearance in the playoffs.

Most of his time here was as a GM. Of course by naming his son as GM when he became owner meant Jerry was still calling the shots as GM, as well as overseeing all activities of the team.

My evaluation of Jerry was a great owner (short-term) and a mediocre GM (long-term). I don't expect every fan to agree. Sarver, without question, is a lousy owner.

i've never understood this. you make it seem like legit 7 footers grow on trees and JC just never tried to get one, as if he purposefully lost the coin flip for David Robinson because he really wanted Armon Gilliam. The guy tried to trade for Dikembe (league nixed the deal), he drafted John Barry Carrol because he was a 7 footer, he tried trading for Alonzo, etc. etc.

the idea that Jerry just wanted to "put on a good show and make a playoff appearance" is lunacy to me. The guy lives to win... EVERYTHING. He lost a couple of the most monumental coin flips in history, for the overwhelming portion of his career had a small market team and made them incredibly successful as best he could.

 

[AzStevenCal]

i've never understood this. you make it seem like legit 7 footers grow on trees and JC just never tried to get one, as if he purposefully lost the coin flip for David Robinson because he really wanted Armon Gilliam. The guy tried to trade for Dikembe (league nixed the deal), he drafted John Barry Carrol because he was a 7 footer, he tried trading for Alonzo, etc. etc.

the idea that Jerry just wanted to "put on a good show and make a playoff appearance" is lunacy to me. The guy lives to win... EVERYTHING. He lost a couple of the most monumental coin flips in history, for the overwhelming portion of his career had a small market team and made them incredibly successful as best he could.

This! A thousand times This! Every really bad decision Jerry and company made was in pursuit of that elusive big man.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Kenneth Faried has no basketball IQ,

Sorry but these players never become allstars.. his best case is role player, see Amundson..

Not that I think KF will be a star but if basketball IQ was a disqualifier for becoming an All-Star...Amare never would have become one. In fact, I bet we could come up with a list of low basketball IQ guys that became All-stars based on natural skill.

i've never understood this. you make it seem like legit 7 footers grow on trees and JC just never tried to get one, as if he purposefully lost the coin flip for David Robinson because he really wanted Armon Gilliam. The guy tried to trade for Dikembe (league nixed the deal), he drafted John Barry Carrol because he was a 7 footer, he tried trading for Alonzo, etc. etc.

the idea that Jerry just wanted to "put on a good show and make a playoff appearance" is lunacy to me. The guy lives to win... EVERYTHING. He lost a couple of the most monumental coin flips in history, for the overwhelming portion of his career had a small market team and made them incredibly successful as best he could.

+1

This team has tried to sign several Center and even some PF to play Center in attempt to get a real center in here several times. None of them have worked out and it wasn't because of lack of effort.

 

[BC867]

i've never understood this. you make it seem like legit 7 footers grow on trees and JC just never tried to get one

Not to belabor the point but, for a long time as the Suns established their identity, Colangelo chose John MacLeod from the University of Oklahoma to be his Coach.

And MacLeod chose his 212 lb. Center from the University of Oklahoma to lock up the position for a decade as the Suns were establishing their persona.

Every Suns Power Forward had to cover for Adams at Center, putting them in an uphill battle. That mentality carried all the way through last season, with our one-dimensional Power Forward, Amar'e, as the only Big on the court.

Gortat's double-double at Center this season was the first since our very first Center, Neal Walk, forty years ago.

If the Suns philosophy had been different, there are many role playing Centers we could have obtained. Mark West was a possibility for a long time, but he spent too much time on the bench in foul trouble with the game on the line.

Even when we brought in Shaq, as Boston has done, he didn't fit into the Nash system.

We certainly could have gotten Marcin Gortat type traditional Centers over the decades if the Suns had been of such a mind.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not to belabor the point but, for a long time as the Suns established their identity, Colangelo chose John MacLeod from the University of Oklahoma to be his Coach.

And MacLeod chose his 212 lb. Center from the University of Oklahoma to lock up the position for a decade as the Suns were establishing their persona.

Every Suns Power Forward had to cover for Adams at Center, putting them in an uphill battle. That mentality carried all the way through last season, with our one-dimensional Power Forward, Amar'e, as the only Big on the court.

Gortat's double-double at Center this season was the first since our very first Center, Neal Walk, forty years ago.

If the Suns philosophy had been different, there are many role playing Centers we could have obtained. Mark West was a possibility for a long time, but he spent too much time on the bench in foul trouble with the game on the line.

Even when we brought in Shaq, as Boston has done, he didn't fit into the Nash system.

We certainly could have gotten Marcin Gortat type traditional Centers over the decades if the Suns had been of such a mind.

sorry... but again, you completely ignore that the team DID try to get traditional Cs... the Barkley teams always had traditional role playing Cs... Mark West, Oliver Miller and then awful guys like Schayes/Klein and then tried even harder when they brought in Hot Rod Williams... then when that team blew up, we tried to deal for Mutombo... then when we got Kidd, we got Luc Longley... you seeing a trend here? Then, with the initial Nash/Amare team, after one year we went out and got KT... you noticing a trend here? They ALWAYS tried to get more traditional Cs but those guys don't grow on trees.

we certainly could have gotten Marcin Gortat type Cs... HOW? You know how many guys average 14/10 or more at the C position in this league? 1. You're talking fantasy land.