2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Hoop Head]

Compared to the players you listed, DA is only overpaid by about 10-12m/y or 1/3 of his salary. Financial wise, it's not a big deal for the owner.

That $10-12 million adds up fast. It's also the difference between the apron levels, which limit what the team can do in order to build elsewhere.

 

[Sparky16]

Ayton has some issues, but if he were the first or second option on a team, I think he would average 25/10 or close to it. I also think that most of Ayton's problems were Monty Williams.

DA does not have 25/10 in him on the regular.... period. Its no surprise that his production dropped after getting paid

 

[dreamcastrocks]

DA does not have 25/10 in him on the regular.... period. Its no surprise that his production dropped after getting paid

After getting paid he became the 3rd option, and now he is 4th at best. That is why I said as a first option.

 

[Sunburn]

After getting paid he became the 3rd option, and now he is 4th at best. That is why I said as a first option.

He might reach those numbers, but his efficiency would drop off a cliff. He has two moves, a hook shot over his left shoulder and a jab step jumper. His ball handling is practically non-existent. He doesn't have the skillset to be a first or second option on a team that isn't trying to tank.

 

[Covert Rain]

After getting paid he became the 3rd option, and now he is 4th at best. That is why I said as a first option.

It's going to be real curious how this plays out with Ayton. Frank said he wants Ayton to be more involved offensively. How? It's going to be next to impossible unless he asks Booker, KD, Beal to take fewer shots. I don't see that happening. All three of these guys are flow guys. They take over the game when they are feeling it. Not to mention Ayton is assisted on a high number of his buckets and CP3 is gone. How?!!?

 

[BirdGangThing]

After getting paid he became the 3rd option, and now he is 4th at best. That is why I said as a first option.

If that were the case other teams would be beating down our door

I think any team (without an All Star Center) would gladly pay $33 million a year for 25/10

 

[Yuma]

It's going to be real curious how this plays out with Ayton. Frank said he wants Ayton to be more involved offensively. How? It's going to be next to impossible unless he asks Booker, KD, Beal to take fewer shots. I don't see that happening. All three of these guys are flow guys. They take over the game when they are feeling it. Not to mention Ayton is assisted on a high number of his buckets and CP3 is gone. How?!!?

Setting screens and getting passes on dives to the basket? That's about the only practical way I see. When we get a turn over or a switch that works in our favor, it's possible for a miss match to occur where he gets a scoring opportunity. I would think when the second unit is out there he could go to work for scores.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It's going to be real curious how this plays out with Ayton. Frank said he wants Ayton to be more involved offensively. How? It's going to be next to impossible unless he asks Booker, KD, Beal to take fewer shots. I don't see that happening. All three of these guys are flow guys. They take over the game when they are feeling it. Not to mention Ayton is assisted on a high number of his buckets and CP3 is gone. How?!!?

Exactly how I feel.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Setting screens and getting passes on dives to the basket? That's about the only practical way I see. When we get a turn over or a switch that works in our favor, it's possible for a miss match to occur where he gets a scoring opportunity. I would think when the second unit is out there he could go to work for scores.

You would think that would be his best chance for success, but I would think Eric Gordon is going to take away a lot of those chances.

 

[Yuma]

You would think that would be his best chance for success, but I would think Eric Gordon is going to take away a lot of those chances.

I can see Gordon getting some run with the first unit, possibly at the end of games, more than we think.

 

[Proximo]

DA does not have 25/10 in him on the regular.... period. Its no surprise that his production dropped after getting paid

On a team like Charlotte he would.

 

[Proximo]

It's going to be real curious how this plays out with Ayton. Frank said he wants Ayton to be more involved offensively. How? It's going to be next to impossible unless he asks Booker, KD, Beal to take fewer shots. I don't see that happening. All three of these guys are flow guys. They take over the game when they are feeling it. Not to mention Ayton is assisted on a high number of his buckets and CP3 is gone. How?!!?

I think he means being more involved in his own shot creation, not necessarily meaning he will get more shots.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think he means being more involved in his own shot creation, not necessarily meaning he will get more shots.

The quote was "we're going to have to involve him a little more in the offense". That doesn't sound like a shot creation thing.

 

[Mainstreet]

This was from a June 14th article from Arizona Sports. See the last paragraph. Suns need to give Ayton the ball sometimes to keep him involved. See last paragraph.


By Kevin Zimmerman, Arizona Sports:

“I’m off to a great start with him from a relationship standpoint in terms of understanding that if we want him to defend and rebound at an All-Star level, then we’re going to have to involve him a little more in the offense. That’s just basketball 101, you learn that as a youngster,” Vogel said when he joined Sirius XM NBA Radio this week at the NBA Summer League.


“You got to give those big guys the ball sometimes. When they get it, then they’ll run through the wall for you on the other end. I think we’re off to a great start with that. He’s going to be a big part of what we do.”

Frank Vogel: Suns will involve Deandre Ayton more on offense

Frank Vogel said his relationship with Deandre Ayton is off to a great start, and he expects to get the big man more involved on offense.

arizonasports.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Ish Wainright's contract is not guaranteed, and Jordan Goodwin's contract is only partially guaranteed.

I don't think Goodwin is going anywhere.


By Luke Adams, Hoops Rumors:

Once the Suns officially sign Bol Bol, their 15-man roster should be set for the regular season, tweets John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7. Phoenix will have 13 players on guaranteed salaries, with Jordan Goodwin on a partially guaranteed contract and Ish Wainright on a non-guaranteed deal.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

 

[Chaplin]

I'm very interested in what changes Vogel will put in place regarding Ayton. Him getting the ball doesn't always mean he's going to take the shot, but we saw several times last year where Ayton would barely touch the ball at all in the 2nd half of games. That obviously leads to him being less engaged. Maybe Frank is on to something here.

 

[Yuma]

I'm very interested in what changes Vogel will put in place regarding Ayton. Him getting the ball doesn't always mean he's going to take the shot, but we saw several times last year where Ayton would barely touch the ball at all in the 2nd half of games. That obviously leads to him being less engaged. Maybe Frank is on to something here.

You saw it all the time. The only exception is a few games where they came out of half time, ran a play or two for him, then continued to ignore him on offense the rest of the half. Some of those games we had mis matches at the center spot in our favor. Sometimes it's Ayton getting into foul trouble early in quarters, too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm very interested in what changes Vogel will put in place regarding Ayton. Him getting the ball doesn't always mean he's going to take the shot, but we saw several times last year where Ayton would barely touch the ball at all in the 2nd half of games. That obviously leads to him being less engaged. Maybe Frank is on to something here.

I think Ayton brought a bunch of that on himself because of lack of aggression or going soft to the bucket. A coach can only let that happen so many times before moving away from said player. To me, Vogel has a major task ahead of him.

 

[Hoop Head]

You saw it all the time. The only exception is a few games where they came out of half time, ran a play or two for him, then continued to ignore him on offense the rest of the half. Some of those games we had mis matches at the center spot in our favor. Sometimes it's Ayton getting into foul trouble early in quarters, too.

I don't think Ayton ever truly has a mismatch offensively because he's terrible at sealing his man off and backing them down. He's been out muscled by guards in the post often. While he may have a size advantage, hes terrible at using his size as an advantage.

The only thin I can think of that might get him more engaged is throwing him more lobs but he's not really much of a runner despite being a 7 footer.

I think Ayton should be told if he wants shots he needs to grab offensive boards. Any offensive rebounds he gets are his to do with as he pleases.

 

[elindholm]

I really, really hope that the Suns aren't going to make force-feeding Ayton part of their gameplan. He's tentative and awkward, has bad hands, and instinctively moves away from the hoop rather than toward it. When he gets off to a good start, it's because the opposition is more focused on the Suns' superior options, and momentarily forgets about the few things that Ayton can do well. Once the defense adjusts, he's close to useless.

Now, if he could somehow get into his head that he needs to attack the basket when given the opportunity, and go through people rather than around them, we might have something. But the Suns don't have the luxury of experimenting with whether Ayton can figure that out during actual games.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This was from a June 14th article from Arizona Sports. See the last paragraph. Suns need to give Ayton the ball sometimes to keep him involved. See last paragraph.


By Kevin Zimmerman, Arizona Sports:

“I’m off to a great start with him from a relationship standpoint in terms of understanding that if we want him to defend and rebound at an All-Star level, then we’re going to have to involve him a little more in the offense. That’s just basketball 101, you learn that as a youngster,” Vogel said when he joined Sirius XM NBA Radio this week at the NBA Summer League.


“You got to give those big guys the ball sometimes. When they get it, then they’ll run through the wall for you on the other end. I think we’re off to a great start with that. He’s going to be a big part of what we do.”

Frank Vogel: Suns will involve Deandre Ayton more on offense

Frank Vogel said his relationship with Deandre Ayton is off to a great start, and he expects to get the big man more involved on offense.

arizonasports.com

He's certainly not wrong, but it is going to be very interesting to see how he figures out how to work Ayton into more touches while playing next to 3 prolific scorers.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Yes, it was Monty Williams out there on the court not passing the ball to Ayton. Or are we suggesting Monty Williams instructed the team not to pass the ball to Ayton? In the huddle?Because I don't remember Ayton setting picks, rolling to the basket wide open and being ignored by his teammates. Part of Ayton's disappearing act is moving just slowly enough to where he doesn't appear to be open, forcing Book and others to shoot the ball or find someone else to pass it to. He pulled this crapola with CP3 all the time, drove Paul nuts. Been in the league too long now, absorb the contact and get that first step on the defender, thing is Ayton doesn't actually want the ball. But sure... Monty Williams

 

[Chaplin]

Y

Yes, it was Monty Williams out there on the court not passing the ball to Ayton. Or are we suggesting Monty Williams instructed the team not to pass the ball to Ayton? In the huddle?Because I don't remember Ayton setting picks, rolling to the basket wide open and being ignored by his teammates. Part of Ayton's disappearing act is moving just slowly enough to where he doesn't appear to be open, forcing Book and others to shoot the ball or find someone else to pass it to. He pulled this crapola with CP3 all the time, drove Paul nuts. Been in the league too long now, absorb the contact and get that first step on the defender, but Ayton doesn't actually want the ball. But sure... Monty Williams

You're still ranting on this? You love Monty Williams, but by your posts, it looks like you think he wasn't actually coaching anyone!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes, it was Monty Williams out there on the court not passing the ball to Ayton. Or are we suggesting Monty Williams instructed the team not to pass the ball to Ayton? Because I don't remember Ayton setting picks, rolling to the basket wide open and being ignored by his teammates. Part of Ayton's disappearing act is moving just slowly enough to where he doesn't appear to be open, forcing Book and others to shoot the ball or find someone else to pass it to. He pulled this crapola with CP3 all the time, drove Paul nuts. Been in the league too long now, absorb the contact and get that first step in the defender, but Ayton doesn't actually want the ball. But sure... Monty Williams

It's not so much that he was telling people not to pass him the ball, but that we weren't exactly running offense with Ayton as the primary option. Not a lot post touches or actions meant to result in an open look for Ayton. It's understandable to not run a lot for him though when Booker and KD are on the floor with him.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Y

You're still ranting on this? You love Monty Williams, but by your posts, it looks like you think he wasn't actually coaching anyone!

Monty Williams did plenty of coaching, and tried to include Ayton the entire time