30 Million In Cap Space...put up or shut up time!

[artp]

I always say the exact same thing to. Every year it is I will not freak out if we do not make a huge impact in the first few days. Then the first few days turn into weeks and before you know it the Cards are dumpster diving. I expect this year to be the same.... Wake up at 5-6 Am and check the free agent signings like a Kid at Christmas only to have nothing happen. Then when all the great players are off the board we start over paying scrubs. Then when the scrubs are signed I think up of magical ways our coaching staff will bring out the best in them. Then the season starts and I watch the scrubs play only to bury my head in the sand and doing one of these

You also have to convince yourself that guys like O Ross were the premiere FA's at his position.

 

[john h]

John when will you admit that just because the Cardinals were poorly managed for several decades, that doesn't mean they arepoorly managed now ?

It takes time to turn an organization around and this one was in the worst shape possible.

Nidan: I am waiting to see if we are still poorly managed. People say we are the New Cardinals. No one could hope so more than me. Excuse me for being the very pessimistic fan that I am but that comes from supporting this team since 1944. It sure gets old. I have heard ever excuse known to exist. I will be here to the end but I do not have enough time in my life left to cut them any more slack or wait for some new coach and a new five year plan to develop. Currently I am in the midst of a 60 year plan.

 

[phillycard]

Nidan: I am waiting to see if we are still poorly managed. People say we are the New Cardinals. No one could hope so more than me. Excuse me for being the very pessimistic fan that I am but that comes from supporting this team since 1944. It sure gets old. I have heard ever excuse known to exist. I will be here to the end but I do not have enough time in my life left to cut them any more slack or wait for some new coach and a new five year plan to develop. Currently I am in the midst of a 60 year plan.

*bows down in deference to john h, and stops bellayaching about being a Cardinal fan for 30 years*

 

[conraddobler]

The fact we have so much money and so bad an O line and then we target guys off the worst lines in the league?

Sorry but this is starting the twilight zone music for me.

How can we have this much space and not make a serious run for top tier guys? Heck go ahead and bust your only sign 30 year olds or younger plan a bit and address the problem for real then draft the replacements for those guys.

Think a little out of the box here, fans don't live forever, let's get this thing going now.

 

[Ed Burmila]

There aren't doing things 'way we used to'. How many more times do we have to to hear the lines like

'If they don't do xxxx, then the will still suck' Good grief folks FA hasn't even started yet and the meltdown has begun.

You and many others are willing to believe every rumor or hypothesis for failing that anybody comes up with, long before it actually happens.

The facts are that the Cardinals have been resigning thier own top tier FA to long term deals. Long before they hit the market. They have been doing this for a 2-3 years now. You want evidence that things have changed, well there it is. Q is signed to a long term deal, that a fact that is evidence.

My comment was hardly a meltdown, and targeting losers like Will Allen and Milford Brown is exactly like the sort of thing this team has done and continutes to do.

And it's really great that they're extending players. But any time they feel like actually addressing some of their needs would be fine with me. I hardly see what difference it makes that they have 2 WRs locked up until kingdom come if there's no offensive line.

All this ballyhooing of the "company line" that somehow things are different. I just don't see it. Having $30 million in cap space and targeting Milford Brown and a 35 year-old Kevin Mawae...that is so Cardinals. Maybe they can lure Anthony Bell out of retirement. I've been a fan of this team much longer than the Arizonans on here, so maybe my patience is just lower. But I don't for a second see how the new management is different or better. Yeah, they extended some players. Quan is an example. Anthony Clement is another. Rod Graves and Michael Bidwill had plenty of influence in decisions like the #4 pick for BJ and Pace, and they retain a lot of that influence today.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Nidan: I am waiting to see if we are still poorly managed. People say we are the New Cardinals. No one could hope so more than me. Excuse me for being the very pessimistic fan that I am but that comes from supporting this team since 1944. It sure gets old. I have heard ever excuse known to exist. I will be here to the end but I do not have enough time in my life left to cut them any more slack or wait for some new coach and a new five year plan to develop. Currently I am in the midst of a 60 year plan.

I didn't see this quote before I made my previous post, but it's a good point; some people have been at this for decades and it's just the same thing over and over. Every couple years there's a new coach who will turn everything around, a "new attitude" from the Bidwills, etc etc. The team has one winning season to show for it since 1990. How is this offseason different? Last year we tried to fix our OL with other teams' trash (Oliver Ross? And half the people on this board pretended it was a great signing). This year we're trying to do the same. That's just what we need: a Steelers WR who's just using us for leverage, a guy who couldn't start on the Texans OL, and Will freakin' Allen. Go ask a Giants board why Will Allen is available.

 

[nidan]

John I know how long you have been suffering but for a number of posters here to start meltdown preparations before FA even starts is ludicious.

It's not a vastly long rebuilding plan, it's just when RG started just about everything sucked.

Coaches, roster, attitude, finances, cap. You name it, it sucked. You can't fix all of that in one year.

Sure some teams [that have historicly sucked] tuned it around in several years. Some remind me, how long has Holmgren been in Seattle, 2 or 3 years is it . However fast [1-2 years] turnarounds require at least 1 or 2 things.

1. The team didn't suck really bad for a long time. In this case probably on the roster had to be fixed.
2. Luck. With a little bit of luck and the stars aligning somes you get the bear. Last year the bear got us.

Why is it if somebody dres to suggest that big spalshy FA signings as and of themselves are not a sign of progress [ask the Redskins] that folks dump on them. The immediate reaction seems to be that we only want a conservative approach which obviously doesn't work [Ask NE about that].

That isn't my point at all. Big signing as fine if they are a good idea. Not all big signings are a good idea.

 

[nidan]

Ed I'll tell you how last year and the last couple of years are different.

MB and RG are calling the shots not BB Snr and tahnks be not BB Jnr.

MB wants to win and he isn't a old man like his father.

Evidence Exibits:

• Well he told me to my face at Jilly's. Try getting that out of his father
• Resigned players like Q, rather than let them go Like S Rice

 

[Ed Burmila]

That isn't my point at all. Big signing as fine if they are a good idea. Not all big signings are a good idea.

Solid logic, but I don't think anyone's arguing to spend for spending's sake. Throwing money around like an idiot (Dan Snyder style) isn't going to elicit any cheers.

But Edgerrin James is not exactly an unknown quantity. Neither is LeCharles Bentley. Paying a legitimate star under 30 is not even in the same ballpark as talking about the Redskins, who throw long-term big-money deals at has beens in their mid- to late-30s.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Ed I'll tell you how last year and the last couple of years are different.

MB and RG are calling the shots not BB Snr and tahnks be not BB Jnr.

MB wants to win and he isn't a old man like his father.

Evidence Exibits:

• Well he told me to my face at Jilly's. Try getting that out of his father
• Resigned players like Q, rather than let them go Like S Rice

Fair enough. Time will tell. I like Mike Bidwill's attitude. I'm just not sure that (and Lord help me for making a political analogy here) you can get by on the "trust us!" argument after so many failures. They haven't earned any trust. We can always have faith, since it's an emotional response, but trust has to be earned.

 

[nidan]

Solid logic, but I don't think anyone's arguing to spend for spending's sake. Throwing money around like an idiot (Dan Snyder style) isn't going to elicit any cheers.

Yes they are.

Many posters here equate big, expensive fast FA signings with actual progress. You sound like you do as well.

But Edgerrin James is not exactly an unknown quantity. Neither is LeCharles Bentley. Paying a legitimate star under 30 is not even in the same ballpark as talking about the Redskins, who throw long-term big-money deals at has beens in their mid- to late-30s.

I certainly wouldn't be upset about EJ coming here, seems like he has more years left than SA anyway. My question is maybe DG has his eye on a RB, maybe EJ maybe somebody else.

Do you really think the Cards aren't planning to upgrade our OL and running game this offseason ? Because that's the impression I get from many here, they seem to think the Cardinals brain trust is to stupid to see what they see.

 

[nidan]

It wasn't like trust me, it was more like I'm pissed off and want to change this

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Well, we have the cap space. There are playmakers at positions where we have needs. Put up or shut up time for the Cards. We have the stadium. We have the cap space. We have the needs. Show me the effort.

Cap Space Available (using 102 Mill. Rumored amount) - $21,481,833

 

[black]

EJ is a great blocker, something we need badly. I like the thought of Arrington also.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

My comment was hardly a meltdown, and targeting losers like Will Allen and Milford Brown is exactly like the sort of thing this team has done and continutes to do.

And it's really great that they're extending players. But any time they feel like actually addressing some of their needs would be fine with me. I hardly see what difference it makes that they have 2 WRs locked up until kingdom come if there's no offensive line.

All this ballyhooing of the "company line" that somehow things are different. I just don't see it. Having $30 million in cap space and targeting Milford Brown and a 35 year-old Kevin Mawae...that is so Cardinals. Maybe they can lure Anthony Bell out of retirement. I've been a fan of this team much longer than the Arizonans on here, so maybe my patience is just lower. But I don't for a second see how the new management is different or better. Yeah, they extended some players. Quan is an example. Anthony Clement is another. Rod Graves and Michael Bidwill had plenty of influence in decisions like the #4 pick for BJ and Pace, and they retain a lot of that influence today.

Cap Space Available (using 102 Mill. Rumored amount) - $21,481,833

 

[Ed Burmila]

Yes they are.

Many posters here equate big, expensive fast FA signings with actual progress. You sound like you do as well.

No, I don't. Signing good players is progress. If you equate everyone who wants the team to go out and sign a great player with "wanting to spend for spending's sake" then I guess everyone who wants the team to sign someone better than Milford Brown falls into that category. You've defined the debate such that you can't lose.

I want them to sign LeCharles Bentley because he's the best center in the league and he has about 7 years left on his career. It's not particularly fair for you to look at that and say "You are just like all the rest, you want to spend money just to spend it." Bill O'Reilly called, he wants his logic back.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Do you really think the Cards aren't planning to upgrade our OL and running game this offseason ? Because that's the impression I get from many here, they seem to think the Cardinals brain trust is to stupid to see what they see.

Yeah, we know the brain trust has never done anything stupid before. They have earned the benefit of the doubt, right? The same people who killed a playoff team in the late 90s by sticking with Matt Joyce, Aaron Graham, and James Dexter year in and year out?

I understand that they're going to address the OL and running game. The question is, are they going to do anything to improve it or just sign losers and call it an upgrade? Not like they've ever tried that in the past or anything.

It's very early. Maybe this free agency talk is nonsense, maybe it's just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows. But after last year ("fixing" the running game with Ross and Arrington) I have no idea where you get your faith that their "upgrade" this offseason will be an actual upgrade. Milford Brown, Kyle Kosier, and a new RB are not going to solve their problems. God help whoever the new RB is, and not even divine protection will get Warner through 2006 alive.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ed is right. Brown and Kosier are not acceptable starters, they are journeymen who have anchored some of the worst lines in recent memory. We need less of those players, not more.

 

[JeffGollin]

Truth be told - we can't really tell whether or not we've turned the corner.

We've seen other regimes come and go. They've all come in saying the right things, and the most of moves they've made seemed like the right moves at the time.

But here we are. The latest regime also seems to be saying and doing the right things, and I'm hopeful.

But years of futility have conditioned me to return to my Missouri roots and to wait & see how things go down this year - & for events to "show me" that we've turned the corner.

I repeat - I like what I see, and I really am hopeful. But I haven't been very good predicting the future in the past. Why start now? I'm rooting hard for Michael, Dennis and Rod to make the right moves and want those moves to bear fruits. But I think we're going to have to wait and see.

 

[Ed Burmila]

I should note that, with respect to what Ian is arguing here, the majority of the signings during Green's tenure have been "good". Okeafor, Berry, Huff (whom I like more than most), etc.

I'm not a Green-basher. I just find it absolutely baffling how this team neglects to do anything to improve up front. They had what might be the worst line in the NFL last year and they're targeting bit players from teams that were even worse.

 

[nidan]

No, I don't. Signing good players is progress. If you equate everyone who wants the team to go out and sign a great player with "wanting to spend for spending's sake" then I guess everyone who wants the team to sign someone better than Milford Brown falls into that category. You've defined the debate such that you can't lose.

I want them to sign LeCharles Bentley because he's the best center in the league and he has about 7 years left on his career. It's not particularly fair for you to look at that and say "You are just like all the rest, you want to spend money just to spend it." Bill O'Reilly called, he wants his logic back.

If you read what I said I agreed with you and EJ, the others I don't know enough about.

But you seem to assume like some others that MB/RG/DG are stupid and don't see the same problems you do.

 

[nidan]

Yeah, we know the brain trust has never done anything stupid before. They have earned the benefit of the doubt, right? The same people who killed a playoff team in the late 90s by sticking with Matt Joyce, Aaron Graham, and James Dexter year in and year out?

You make my point for me.

Just exactly what do MB/RG/DG have to do with that ?

BB Snr was making the calls not MB then
RG was not the GM
And DG certainly wasn't the head coach.

So what have the choices made by the Cardinals then do do with them now. Yeah I know pull out the BB Snr is still the owner card. If that is your point then the discussion is pointless as you believe nothing will change until he goes.

What we hear is that MB is making the ownership calls now.

I understand that they're going to address the OL and running game. The question is, are they going to do anything to improve it or just sign losers and call it an upgrade? Not like they've ever tried that in the past or anything.

What makes you think DG wants to sign losers or RG for that matter ? Don't you think DG wants his playoff bonus ?

It's very early. Maybe this free agency talk is nonsense, maybe it's just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows. But after last year ("fixing" the running game with Ross and Arrington) I have no idea where you get your faith that their "upgrade" this offseason will be an actual upgrade. Milford Brown, Kyle Kosier, and a new RB are not going to solve their problems. God help whoever the new RB is, and not even divine protection will get Warner through 2006 alive.

Persoanlly I have no idea about Arrington, our OL was so bad I defy you to make any reasonable analysis of him. Having said that I certaiunly wouldn't object to an upgrade.

My point is that the Cardinals have said that the OL and running game are their priority. It seems they agree with us, so where is the irritation coming from ?

 

[nidan]

I just find it absolutely baffling how this team neglects to do anything to improve up front. They had what might be the worst line in the NFL last year and they're targeting bit players from teams that were even worse.

That is probably true at least as far as run blocking is concerned. So why was our OL so bad ? The answer seems to me at least in part, is that it wasn't the OL, it was the backup/backup OL.

I don't know how to get the info but I would be nterested in seeming a position by game list of who started at what positions for each game

 

[Ed Burmila]

You What makes you think DG wants to sign losers or RG for that matter ? Don't you think DG wants his playoff bonus ?

This part of the argument answers itself. Calls to LeCharles Bentley's agent: 0. Calls to Milford Brown's agent: 1.

I know they don't consciously set out to sign bums. But I do think they've talked themselves into the company line of "let's target cheap guys who we will somehow turn into good players."

Persoanlly I have no idea about Arrington, our OL was so bad I defy you to make any reasonable analysis of him. Having said that I certaiunly wouldn't object to an upgrade.

I disagree. Ross was absolutely horrendous all on his own. He didn't need help nor can he blame his awful performance on anyone else. It was so easy to beat him off the edge that opponents didn't even feel a need to try any other moves. Not to mention the penalties. He is the worst pass blocker I've seen in years, and no, I'm not changing my tune. I said that when they foolishly signed him. Just think - 4 more years left on his deal. Can you imagine how bad he'll be when he's 35?

My point is that the Cardinals have said that the OL and running game are their priority. It seems they agree with us, so where is the irritation coming from ?

The fact that it's their priority is meaningless to me if they're not going to address it productively. Take your argument about free agency: "Anyone can spend money, but that doesn't mean it will fix the problem." I agree. But anyone can call an area a priority and sign some people, but that doesn't mean the problem is solved.

If it's their "priority" and they address it by signing some dregs from terrible teams, then I can assure you it will end up being their "priority" next year as well. We have a long way to go before we can pass judgment on their plan of attack. Who knows, maybe they'll sign Bentley and EJ and I'll eat my words. But Milford Brown and Kyle Kosier talk isn't a promising start.

 

[CardsFan222]

I Love the cards folks and I want them to win just as much as anyone else, BUT....... I don't want to spend money just to spend the money.


I would love for the team to go out and sign J.Lewis to a 1 year deal because who knows.........Arrington might have found a back bone this offseason and he might blow up this season, but if he does not......then we can try to sign Lewis to a long term deal

I don't want to sign James to a big contract and come to find out that Green was right and Arrington is the real deal but we already have this RB who is on the down side of his carrer

You have to look long term people. LaCharles Bentley is the only free agent I would throw a big contract at. He is young, already one of the best at his position, and could be a corner stone for this o-line for years to come.

That's why I am shocked that I have not heard any rumors about LaCharles Bentley to AZ. He fits the mold of what the Cards are looking for