4th round pick - Logan Thomas QB VT

[cardncubfan]

Wow, just wow. Thank goodness they didn't show his other 400 hundred hours of stinky QB play.

You guys remember John Skelton right? Ya know, the guy who's passes seemed to hit the Coors Light vendor in row 35, then three plays later knocked the cotton candy out of the kids hand in section 213 row 5 with another errant pass. Thomas IMO is less accurate than him at this point. I still say accuracy can't be taught to improve much & I could care less whom that QB genius is. Tim Teblow could be changed too right? Hehehe

The game tape don't lie fellas!!! If the Seahwaks, Niners or Lambs would've picked this kid, most here would've been howling & rolling with laughter on what a crappy pick it was.

You seem to talk in absolutes all the time like you know exactly what is going to happen with each draft pick or player signed. In reality you don't have a clue like the rest of us. I trust the trained professionals that they know what they are doing vs some some guy on a message board. Thomas will probably end up a better QB than your boy JF. IMHO

 

[Russ Smith]

To me it's almost like Arians threw him a bone because of where he went to school.

Big kid, horribly inaccurate. Just not that easy to fix an inaccurate QB. I get tha the has the size and the arm, but he has no idea where the ball is going.

 

[Buckybird]

On your last point. More likely, we'd have worried that they knew something we didn't.

Really? Wow.

Too me there is no defending this pick. I know I'm guessing, but if Petey & Harbaugh were in identical situations or even coaching this team I can't see them picking Thomas in Rd 4 & thinking this kids got an NFL future as a capable NFL starter. Again, his game tape don't lie. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

 

[Buckybird]

To me it's almost like Arians threw him a bone because of where he went to school.

Big kid, horribly inaccurate. Just not that easy to fix an inaccurate QB. I get tha the has the size and the arm, but he has no idea where the ball is going.

Ding ding ding!!! Those are exactly my thoughts Russ.

 

[Buckybird]

You seem to talk in absolutes all the time like you know exactly what is going to happen with each draft pick or player signed. In reality you don't have a clue like the rest of us. I trust the trained professionals that they know what they are doing vs some some guy on a message board. Thomas will probably end up a better QB than your boy JF. IMHO

I'm not end all, be all draft expert, no sir! But I've played sports all my life & in college as well so I do have somewhat of an idea & not saying you don't, so I get your point. But...

Meziel has only 2 negatives against him: size & the fear of him getting hurt. I think he's already proven he's corrected his wrecklessness off the field, though it might come back. In fact I didn't like his crap that happened all offseason last year & didn't care for him for that reason especially being a Horns fan.

IMO Thomas can only dream he has what JF brings to the field talent wise. Care to place an avatar bet & see whom the better player is in 4 years? Manziel might bust for the reasons stated, but I'm saying Thomas doesn't stand much of a chance being anywhere more than a journeyman NFL QB because of accuracy issues.

 

[PACardsFan]

I'm not end all, be all draft expert, no sir! But I've played sports all my life & in college as well so I do have somewhat of an idea & not saying you don't, so I get your point. But...

Meziel has only 2 negatives against him: size & the fear of him getting hurt. I think he's already proven he's corrected his wrecklessness off the field, though it might come back. In fact I didn't like his crap that happened all offseason last year & didn't care for him for that reason especially being a Horns fan.

IMO Thomas can only dream he has what JF brings to the field talent wise. Care to place an avatar bet & see whom the better player is in 4 years? Manziel might bust for the reasons stated, but I'm saying Thomas doesn't stand much of a chance being anywhere more than a journeyman NFL QB because of accuracy issues.

That's not a fair bet. Manziel was a 1st round pick & Thomas is a wild card 4th rounder. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. If Manziel bombs, that will be far more devastating to the Browns than if Thomas bombs. I love Manziel, but Arians doesn't covet his style. Not now, not ever. Every once in awhile you swing for the fences with a 4th round pick. I believe that's what the Cardinals did here. I can't say how Thomas will develop, but I have no problem with the pick. He's not just a big buffoon like Skelton or DA. He's a freakish athlete, that adds a running dimension that the Cardinals need at times.

 

[D-Dogg]

That's not a fair bet. Manziel was a 1st round pick & Thomas is a wild card 4th rounder. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. If Manziel bombs, that will be far more devastating to the Browns than if Thomas bombs. I love Manziel, but Arians doesn't covet his style. Not now, not ever. Every once in awhile you swing for the fences with a 4th round pick. I believe that's what the Cardinals did here. I can't say how Thomas will develop, but I have no problem with the pick. He's not just a big buffoon like Skelton or DA. He's a freakish athlete, that adds a running dimension that the Cardinals need at times.

This. 1,000 times this.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The Log is a impact player... I just don't know what kind of impact when he gets on the field lol

 

[Buckybird]

That's not a fair bet. Manziel was a 1st round pick & Thomas is a wild card 4th rounder. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. If Manziel bombs, that will be far more devastating to the Browns than if Thomas bombs. I love Manziel, but Arians doesn't covet his style. Not now, not ever. Every once in awhile you swing for the fences with a 4th round pick. I believe that's what the Cardinals did here. I can't say how Thomas will develop, but I have no problem with the pick. He's not just a big buffoon like Skelton or DA. He's a freakish athlete, that adds a running dimension that the Cardinals need at times.

Problem is I wasn't running my mouth that Thomas would probably end up the better NFL QB. He always goes on the attack with me anyways, so I expected as much.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's not a fair bet. Manziel was a 1st round pick & Thomas is a wild card 4th rounder. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. If Manziel bombs, that will be far more devastating to the Browns than if Thomas bombs. I love Manziel, but Arians doesn't covet his style. Not now, not ever. Every once in awhile you swing for the fences with a 4th round pick. I believe that's what the Cardinals did here. I can't say how Thomas will develop, but I have no problem with the pick. He's not just a big buffoon like Skelton or DA. He's a freakish athlete, that adds a running dimension that the Cardinals need at times.

If he were a guy with just a few years experience at DE or LB or TE etc I'd be more inclined to buy into that. But QB is one of the few positions in the NFL where freakish athletic ability doesn't necessarily help you. IN the end if you can't stand in the pocket and deliver the ball on time in the right spot to the right guy after the right read, you simply won't make it as a QB.

Maybe he's the rare guy that will develop that skill in the NFL, but it likely won't be because he's a great athlete because his problems as a QB have nothing to do with athletic ability, and everything to do with QB ability.

 

[Buckybird]

If he were a guy with just a few years experience at DE or LB or TE etc I'd be more inclined to buy into that. But QB is one of the few positions in the NFL where freakish athletic ability doesn't necessarily help you. IN the end if you can't stand in the pocket and deliver the ball on time in the right spot to the right guy after the right read, you simply won't make it as a QB.

Maybe he's the rare guy that will develop that skill in the NFL, but it likely won't be because he's a great athlete because his problems as a QB have nothing to do with athletic ability, and everything to do with QB ability.

Yep. The chances are very slim he's anything more than a journeyman.

IMO him improving his accuracy is like asking a LT who was a strong run blocker & lackluster in pass pro improving greatly by improving his technique. It might improve slightly, but the chances of him becoming an all pro is probably not gonna happen. Levi Clown...cough cough How did that work out?

 

[MrYeahBut]

I don't get the hate. Sure the kid could be a bust, so? It's a 4th round pick for crying out loud. Every pick except for a couple sure things is a gamble anyway. Clowney could be a colossal failure for all we know. Sheesh, lighten up. He wasn't drafted to be the face of the franchise or expected to see the field on opening day. He was drafted to fill a need on the roster just like every other pick, except for Mr Irrelevant.


.

 

[football karma]

To me it's almost like Arians threw him a bone because of where he went to school.

Big kid, horribly inaccurate. Just not that easy to fix an inaccurate QB. I get tha the has the size and the arm, but he has no idea where the ball is going.

All NFL coaches have giant egos. It comes with the territory

I think it's more like Arians watched his alma mater's games and simply fell in love with the idea of fixing him. He truly believes that he can fix him. It's the football version of My Fair Lady.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

The Cardinals are in a unique position. They have two great QB coaches on the roster (Arians/Moore) and Freddie Kitchens is no slouch. The players rave about him. On top of that, we also have a legit Pro Bowl caliber QB in front of him. We've never had this much knowledge for developing QB's before.

Here's what I like about Thomas after watching every passing snap he took in 5 games (disclaimer: I'm no pro scout either, but trust what I see). His throwing motion is beautiful. His hand comes right over his ear and into his "pocket" on almost every throw. His weight distribution from leg to leg is also great on his throws. He can literally lift his back leg up after every pass because all his weight drives the ball threw perfectly. The mechanics are all there!

His problems are with his feet and eyes. His eyes are moving faster than what his feet are on most of his inaccurate passes. He does not turn into the pass and throw straight. He keeps his feet facing forward and turns his hips into his throws. Sometimes it looks like he is throwing sideways. When that happens, he tends to either sail the ball because he's put to much torque on his hips or throws it short because he didn't have the power in the throw that he thought he would.

The biggest concern I have is can he read coverages? A good number of passes are thrown into areas that should probably not be thrown into. He's got a cannon and likes to use it. He throws to many deep passes for my liking. Some guys check down to much. Thomas doesn't check down enough. He also can trust his arm to much at times. Takes to many chances on really tight windows. Even on some completions, you walk away from the play going "I can not believe he fit that in there..." The bad accuracy won't matter if he throws the ball to covered receivers.

 

[Buckybird]

Takes to many chances on really tight windows. Even on some completions, you walk away from the play going "I can not believe he fit that in there..." The bad accuracy won't matter if he throws the ball to covered receivers.

Moe, I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "there's no such thing as an open receiver in the NFL".

Well, it's slightly exaggerated but there's a reason they say it. The windows get smaller, because the coverage peeps are the best of the best and those tight throws have to be made, though they do have to know when to play another down & throw it away as well. That's the exact reason accuracy is of the upmost importance in the big boy league. Accurate NFL QBs have to be able to throw guys open & where they deliver it is the key.

I know BA & Moore are 2 of the best & hope they can groom him, but Thomas is gonna be a tough project to mold into a finished product. I still say talent & coaching go hand in hand.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I haven't read through this thread. I just hope we get as much out of Thomas as the last VTech kid we drafted.

 

[Totally_Red]

Mike Mayock: "I watched 25 of his tapes. Two were outstanding and 23 were terrible."

If he played at Georgia Tech instead of Virginia Tech, would B.A. have wanted him?

 

[Southpaw]

Ding ding ding!!! Those are exactly my thoughts Russ.

I watched a bunch of his games and most times had to say " wth " was that when he actually attempted to pass. The fear for defenses is when he tucked and ran. He is Colin Klein Lite.

 

[Southpaw]

All NFL coaches have giant egos. It comes with the territory

I think it's more like Arians watched his alma mater's games and simply fell in love with the idea of fixing him. He truly believes that he can fix him. It's the football version of My Fair Lady.

Maybe Arians is the coach with a chip on his shoulder with something to prove since it took him so long to get the HC gig. Mad Scientist syndrome is not a good thing.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I watched a bunch of his games and most times had to say " wth " was that when he actually attempted to pass. The fear for defenses is when he tucked and ran. He is Colin Klein Lite.

Except he actually has a lot of arm talent. Guys like Klein and Tebow rely a lot on running because they just don't have a strong enough arm to consistently push the ball down down the field.

The biggest issue I found for Thomas that I have seen is him forcing the ball into double and triple coverage and that was a much more consistent theme in the footage that I have watched than inaccuracy. Since I didn't watch these games from the coaches film view I couldn't tell you if it had a lot to do with receivers not consistently getting open or if it was just him not seeing the extra defenders.

What I will say is that in his sophmore year he had a 1700 yard rusher (David Wilson 5.9 ypc) that left after that season and his top 2 receivers (121 combined catches) left as well. To me the biggest issue was the lack of run game (other than him) the last 2 years. Regardless that was a lot of talent to lose in that 1 season and that talent hasn't really been replaced (especially the RB position).

 

[Southpaw]

Except he actually has a lot of arm talent. Guys like Klein and Tebow rely a lot on running because they just don't have a strong enough arm to consistently push the ball down down the field.

The biggest issue I found for Thomas that I have seen is him forcing the ball into double and triple coverage and that was a much more consistent theme in the footage that I have watched than inaccuracy. Since I didn't watch these games from the coaches film view I couldn't tell you if it had a lot to do with receivers not consistently getting open or if it was just him not seeing the extra defenders.

What I will say is that in his sophmore year he had a 1700 yard rusher (David Wilson 5.9 ypc) that left after that season and his top 2 receivers (121 combined catches) left as well. To me the biggest issue was the lack of run game (other than him) the last 2 years. Regardless that was a lot of talent to lose in that 1 season and that talent hasn't really been replaced (especially the RB position).

I would like to compare his arm talent to another 4 year ACC QB and offer some perspective. Stephen Morris of the U M had arguably the best arm in any conference. Had all of the measureables. Played against the same competition. Except for his senior year when he was hobbled by a foot injury, he was as athletic as they come. Halfway through the year he was still rated a top ten prospect. His numbers blew Logman's numbers off of the charts. Finally the bandwagon emptied on this guy when they found out he peaked and basically was mediocre at best.

Morris and Thomas can both throw the ball through a brick wall. Both are athletic as can be.Footwork looks fine. Then the inevitable occurs. Gameday they are both the ultimate teasers when they become an accident waiting to happen. It is in their head. The game never slows down for them. They lose control and puke. Underthrow, overthrow, dirtballs, picks, missed reads. etc. Their highlight reels make you fall in love. Their voluminous lowlight reels make you shake your head.

BTW, Morris was undrafted and signed with his previous OC, Jedd Fisch, of the Jaguars as an UDFA. I suspect that was where Logman should have eventually gone. Everyone wants to find the next Tom Brady. We should all live so long.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't get the hate. Sure the kid could be a bust, so? It's a 4th round pick for crying out loud. Every pick except for a couple sure things is a gamble anyway. Clowney could be a colossal failure for all we know. Sheesh, lighten up. He wasn't drafted to be the face of the franchise or expected to see the field on opening day. He was drafted to fill a need on the roster just like every other pick, except for Mr Irrelevant.


.

For me it's not hate it's that I sort of feel like Arians threw the kid a bone here. You played at Va Tech, good athlete, no QB here I really like so I'm taking you.

People keep saying we took Arians' type players, Thomas is NOT an Arians type QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would add my skepticism also comes from a lifetime as a Cards fan watching us take big guys with strong arms and try to make them into QB's. Rick McIvor, Mike Buck, John Navarre, Derek Anderson, Skelton with several others thrown in there.

It's very rare and we have had next to no success doing it. None of that was under Arians but then name me the big scatter arm QB's that Arians has turned into a good NFL QB.

 

[Southpaw]

For me it's not hate it's that I sort of feel like Arians threw the kid a bone here. You played at Va Tech, good athlete, no QB here I really like so I'm taking you.

People keep saying we took Arians' type players, Thomas is NOT an Arians type QB.

Would you be as happy as me if he ended up lining up as a TE?

 

[PACardsFan]

The Cardinals are in a unique position. They have two great QB coaches on the roster (Arians/Moore) and Freddie Kitchens is no slouch. The players rave about him. On top of that, we also have a legit Pro Bowl caliber QB in front of him. We've never had this much knowledge for developing QB's before.

Here's what I like about Thomas after watching every passing snap he took in 5 games (disclaimer: I'm no pro scout either, but trust what I see). His throwing motion is beautiful. His hand comes right over his ear and into his "pocket" on almost every throw. His weight distribution from leg to leg is also great on his throws. He can literally lift his back leg up after every pass because all his weight drives the ball threw perfectly. The mechanics are all there!

His problems are with his feet and eyes. His eyes are moving faster than what his feet are on most of his inaccurate passes. He does not turn into the pass and throw straight. He keeps his feet facing forward and turns his hips into his throws. Sometimes it looks like he is throwing sideways. When that happens, he tends to either sail the ball because he's put to much torque on his hips or throws it short because he didn't have the power in the throw that he thought he would.

The biggest concern I have is can he read coverages? A good number of passes are thrown into areas that should probably not be thrown into. He's got a cannon and likes to use it. He throws to many deep passes for my liking. Some guys check down to much. Thomas doesn't check down enough. He also can trust his arm to much at times. Takes to many chances on really tight windows. Even on some completions, you walk away from the play going "I can not believe he fit that in there..." The bad accuracy won't matter if he throws the ball to covered receivers.

Very good post! From what I've seen of him, your last paragraph pretty much nails it. Some great QB's started their careers in this manner, especially the fact that he trusts his arm too much. Favre & Namath come to mind quickly. The fact that he throws long too much can absolutely be coached out of him. Although, the fact that he has the ability to do it, is why Arians is so enamored with him. He's the anti-Leinart! Perhaps a new nickname moving forward. Look, even if the kid pans out, he won't see a regular season game for 2 years! Let Arians play with his new toy & see what comes of it.