Alex Len

[Cheesebeef]

Not at the sample size and level of play that we have to go on.

Two years is a lot of time IMO.

I'm a believer that people either have a huge motor or they don't. and that can't be hidden no matter how young they are.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I find the evaluation of Len comical. Posters on this board have been screaming BPA for months. Now, because Len isn't a sg, he's a stiff. Here are the facts:

1. There were three players that were reasonable picks when the Suns drafted: Len, Noel, and McLemore. Noel's knee was red-flagged by our staff. I am sorry, not touching that one if the best med staff in the league red flags. McLemore has real motor issues and the people surrounding him are a big warning sign. So they chose Len. Seems like sound thinking to me.

2. Len was projected to go higher than 5 by almost everyone AND many think he has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft.

3. The big knock on him is that he disappeared at times. But with big men, you do have to realize that they are completely dependent upon guard play. If they do not get him the ball, or get it to him in bad situations, it is not only makes him look bad, its deflating. Good scouts know the difference. Maryland had atrocious guard play by all accounts.

4. This kid is 7-1 and long. He runs like a deer. He has good foot work, is very agile and is 255 pounds at 19. His frame can carry more easily. His fundamentals are solid. He is a good shot blocker AND rebounder. The comparisons to Robin Lopez are silly. Look at how the kid moves. He is way more mobile and flexible than Robin Lopez.

5. Listen to his interviews. He is a humble Euro that listens to coaching. He does not have an entourage. He is exactly the type of player Popovich would draft.

I am OK with this pick. I would have been OK with McLemore too, but I would have a little more fear of a failure. I wanted Oladipo, then maybe Bennett, but it was truly a toss up between Bennett and Len. Noel would have been nice but not with a medical red flag. McLemore just seems like a Wes Person/Tim Perry type of personality. But Joe Johnson had that type of personality too, and he seemed to do OK. I am just fine with Len. If he develops on the same trajectory that he is now, we will have a quality 7-1 center.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Chaz - my thoughts exactly, the hate for Len is not justified. In a weak draft all we wanted to do is not pick a bust and, assuming he returns from injury with no issues, we've done that. So he probably wont' be an all-star but could easily start for years to come - I'm okay with that.

And I'm calling bust on Noel already - that face / haircut combo, his stupid posse, his stupid name and most importantly his injury. Superficial reasoning in there i realise but..

So for me it was a straight pick between McElmore or Len. McElmore has higher upside potential, sure, but Len was the safer - and hopefully better - pick.

In a weak draft where everyone's a question mark, I just can't understand the logic of taking a risk on a double instead of a home-run.

 

[Mainstreet]

I understand this and I too like to be as positive as possible. But every time I tried to find a positive way to look at this draft I kept remembering what I saw when I watched Len play and what I've read about him since. Then, I'd try to talk myself off the ledge by reminding myself that the people in this organization do this for a living and they know a lot more about Len than I do. And then, just when I'm starting to mellow, they draft a combo guard that qualifies as a combo guard solely because he cannot play either position.

I'm sorry to add to the negativity but I'm having a heck of a time trying to find the silver lining here. By the time the season rolls around I'll have found a way to believe there is hope in our future but right now, It's looking pretty bleak to me.

Steve

We agreed that the Suns should draft Bennett at #5. So how do we grow so far apart on drafting Len. I wanted the Suns to go big at #5. In fact, 4 of the first 6 picks were big men. Len is a just turned 20 year old still learning the game of basketball. I guess I see his size, build and athletic skills and just see him getting better. Good centers do not grow on trees, so when one gets a chance to draft one with tremendous upside, I believe you do it. Noel and McLemore did not blow me away. I'm sure the Suns looked at each closely.

Choosing Goodwin, age 18, was a high reward low risk option for a draft pick at #29.

 

[Chaplin]

In a weak draft where everyone's a question mark, I just can't understand the logic of taking a risk on a double instead of a home-run.

Who's the home run? That's the question. What makes McLemore or even Noel better than Len? And take into account ALL the reasons. Injuries, work ethic, workouts...

 

[JCSunsfan]

At 7-1 255, with good mobility, good timing, good hands. I cannot see how Len isn't the one with the most upside.

Draftexpress consistenly had Len rated as THE top prospect on their 100 top prospect board. When you get the player who is considered by many as the top prospect with the most upside in the draft AND he is 7-1, AND you get him at the fifth pick, its hard to find fault.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Who's the home run? That's the question. What makes McLemore or even Noel better than Len? And take into account ALL the reasons. Injuries, work ethic, workouts...

Elite Athleticism, youth, flashes of DOMINANT play as freshman at big time programs. And when you throw in the fact that Len has injury concerns, couldn't even workout AND had work ethic issues, I don't see one area where he trumps either of those guys.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to acknowledge that every single person who's watched/covered college ball has said that those guys' ceilings are higher then Len's.

 

[Chaplin]

Elite Athleticism, youth, flashes of DOMINANT play as freshman at big time programs. And when you throw in the fact that Len has injury concerns, couldn't even workout AND had work ethic issues, I don't see one area where he trumps either of those guys.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to acknowledge that every single person who's watched/covered college ball has said that those guys' ceilings are higher then Len's.

I'll give you the "flashes of dominant play", but that's it. Len did dominate Noel in their matchup, but the youth and athleticism are weak arguments, because quite frankly, Len is young and athletic. I think you are reading different things than everybody else, because it appears that countless articles and pundits are putting Len at the top of the list as far as possible success goes.

 

[crisper57]

I know next to nothing about this guy. Wasn't on my radar because I thought he wouldn't fit our team. Gortat is not long for this team. Didn't see that coming.

 

[jagu]

A lot of people in the mocks had Len at #1. Not sure why you guys are so sour on him. Could he be a bust? Sure. So can every single player in this draft. Len does have a lot of good traits that could make him a tough center to deal with in the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

At 7-1 255, with good mobility, good timing, good hands. I cannot see how Len isn't the one with the most upside.

Draftexpress consistenly had Len rated as THE top prospect on their 100 top prospect board. When you get the player who is considered by many as the top prospect with the most upside in the draft AND he is 7-1, AND you get him at the fifth pick, its hard to find fault.

Who are these "many" besides Draft Express?

 

[jagu]

And comparing him to Lolopez makes no sense. He's way way way way more athletic and he has good hands as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll give you the "flashes of dominant play", but that's it. Len did dominate Noel in their matchup, but the youth and athleticism are weak arguments, because quite frankly, Len is young and athletic. I think you are reading different things than everybody else, because it appears that countless articles and pundits are putting Len at the top of the list as far as possible success goes.[/

I just don't agree that athleticism is a weak argument. Len is a good athlete. McLemore and Noel are elite athletes. There's a world of difference there at the NBA level.

 

[HooverDam]

Keep in mind, Alex Len wasn't named one of the 15 best players in the ACC by the Coaches.

If that doesn't tell you all you need to know...I don't know what does.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We agreed that the Suns should draft Bennett at #5. So how do we grow so far apart on drafting Len. I wanted the Suns to go big at #5. In fact, 4 of the first 6 picks were big men. Len is a just turned 20 year old still learning the game of basketball. I guess I see his size, build and athletic skills and just see him getting better. Good centers do not grow on trees, so when one gets a chance to draft one with tremendous upside, I believe you do it. Noel and McLemore did not blow me away. I'm sure the Suns looked at each closely.

Choosing Goodwin, age 18, was a high reward low risk option for a draft pick at #29.

I'm fine with skipping Noel and McLemore. But I'm tired of drafting guys who get knocked for head and/or heart issues, they never seem to pan out. If someone could give me a good reason for Len disappearing at times I'd feel a lot better about this pick. I don't question his athleticism nor his potential. I worry about the stress fracture and his lack of focus. I'd much rather have picked McCollum or made the Noel to Philly trade or even a trade down and grab someone like Giannis - pretty much anything other than selecting a guy that carries the label inconsistent by everyone that reviews him.

Most of my reaction to Goodwin has to do with all the other posters who think we saved our draft by getting Archie. He's one of the guys I would have gambled on with our late 2nd round pick but he's not just a long-shot, he's a hundred to one (maybe thousand to one) long-shot and counting on him to save your draft is a little scary. Yes, his up-side is unreal but the likelihood he even approaches that ceiling is almost inconceivable.

Steve

 

[jagu]

McLemore is a pretty poor defender and other than the blocks on NCAA scrubs, what is Noel's other great trait? You think he could box out big men in the NBA? Hack a Noel at your service. I loved Oladipo but I am okay with Len as the second option. I think he was the most talented big man in the draft. I think Zeller is pretty good too but Len has more upside.

 

[Chaz]

In a weak draft where everyone's a question mark, I just can't understand the logic of taking a risk on a double instead of a home-run.

To continue the analogy, when you are down as many runs as the Suns are you need base runners and want to avoid strikeouts.

He may not be a star but you can't teach size and this kid is very skilled for his size.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If someone could give me a good reason for Len disappearing at times I'd feel a lot better about this pick.

Steve

Atrocious guard play at Maryland. Guards took constant ill-advised shots, and failed to get Len the ball when he got himself in good position. They tended to dump the ball to him when they were in trouble and he was not in position to do anything about it.

And he is a 19 year old freshman in a new country and new surroundings.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Atrocious guard play at Maryland. Guards took constant ill-advised shots, and failed to get Len the ball when he got himself in good position. They tended to dump the ball to him when they were in trouble and he was not in position to do anything about it.

And he is a 19 year old freshman in a new country and new surroundings.

Thank you. I'll digest that and get back to you.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

McLemore is a pretty poor defender and other than the blocks on NCAA scrubs, what is Noel's other great trait? You think he could box out big men in the NBA? Hack a Noel at your service. I loved Oladipo but I am okay with Len as the second option. I think he was the most talented big man in the draft. I think Zeller is pretty good too but Len has more upside.

This is EXACTLY what I am thinking. Every bit of it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If someone could give me a good reason for Len disappearing at times I'd feel a lot better about this pick. .

Steve

Here is another reason. He played much of the season with a stress fracture in his ankle.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....tment-toward-maryland-for-handling-of-injury/

One interesting tidbit from the article

Even his injury has provided at least one benefit. Len said an x-ray revealed his growth plate is still open and he might grown another inch

This would concern me some, but if there is anywhere I have absolutely implicit trust in the Suns organization, its in the medical staff's judgment.

I do believe that while a player is growing, his wingspan is also growing. This kid could end up 7-2 or more with a 7-5 or more wing span. He is agile, he runs the floor, he rebounds well as a 19 year old. It's just too much to pass on.

 

[3rdside]

Len is more likely to be a long term starter than McElmore an all-star. If there's a 70% chance of making $1000 or a 10% chance of making $2000, which game do you play? McElmore may end up the better player but taking him at 8 was a no-brainer, taking him at 5 with Len still on the board wasn't.

 

[Mainstreet]

Another thought, big men with talent usually retain their value longer than players at other positions, especially young big men. The Suns gave Robin Lopez every opportunity to develop into their center and they were still able to trade him for a first round draft pick. Something to think about.

I feel so much better about Len now than I ever did for Lopez.

 

[elindholm]

I feel so much better about Len now than I ever did for Lopez.

I'd say it's no better than 50-50 that Len turns out to be a better pro than Lopez. The near-unanimous rejection of Lopez on this board is bizarre to me. He started all 82 games for the Hornets last season and averaged better than 11 points on 53% shooting, along with 1.6 blocks. True, he's a poor rebounder, but Len's rebounding numbers are substandard also. If Len is still with the Suns in his fifth season and putting up Lopez numbers, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I can't handle this. I want to believe in McDonough but all common sense was telling me this was a bad pick. I was texting TJ right until pick was made and was sure the Suns would F this up based on the buzz I'd heard on how they viewed Noel, Mclemore, and Len. I'm usually the biggest Kool Aod drinker on my teams drafts and wil talk myself into player 24 hours later and get excited. I can't even do that I'm this case.

What a joke. Who would have though 10 years ago the Cards would have a legit FO and ownership and the Suns would be this frolicking mess.

Ill check back in this time next year where they hopefully don't f*** up the Wiggins pick.