Amare looked better tonight...than the last time i watched him(at least at the offensive end) none of his teammates showed up though. marion really bothered melo and dirk was a lot of trouble for amare in the second half.
Amare looks done
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JCSunsfan
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Reports out of NY are that Amare is now trying to lose weight. He was playing at 260 this year and has already dropped 10 lbs. Amare came into the league around 225 I believe. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to play his game with an extra 35 lbs, and on those knees too.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/smaller_stoudemire_comes_up_big_ZEGKTcs1jw6spdi9sIEtEM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/smaller_stoudemire_comes_up_big_ZEGKTcs1jw6spdi9sIEtEM
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JustWinBaby
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As I have suggested in the past, it is far too early to give up on Amare.
Certainly the signs have been there, but he has had legit issues. It appears that he could be on his way back to being the old Amare. If he breaks down physically, which is very possible, all the naysayers will be right on their Amare predictions. Schools out on this one.
The biggest concern for Knick fans should be Melo. Amare has not finished at the basket as well as we have seen in the past but Melo is horrific. He may be the most overated player ever. Chris Webber backed him mightily in the NBA TV post game show last night. He was comparing him to Lin as a leaer. Lin makes under a Million, in his first year (20 games or so) and Melo make 18 Mil +. Duh, Melo should be the leader but he is not capable or willing to lead. I think Webber has this one wrong and the only person that has gotten Melo right is when Denver traded him. It is truly amazing how Melo continues to get support and very little criticism from the media.
Melo is struggling with fitting in. It appears that he is very uncomfortable without the ball in his hands. With it in or with it out of his hands the Knicks have sucked with him on the court.
Amare needs the most shots because he is one of the most efficient scorers in history.
Based on Points per Shot Attempt - career
Amare 1.46
Lebron 1.35
Jordan 1.32
Kobe 1.30
Melo 1.28
Obviously Lebron Jordan and Kobe bring far more things, like defense, winning while taking and making big shots at winning time. However when compared with Melo, Amare should be the first option in New York. Melo's worth has been his ability to get his own shot. He is getting horible shots for the most part in New York and missing them.
I agree with you. Melo was facing marion last night and shawn is a relentless defender, just ask kobe and he starts whining about shawn.
but either way I agree and why do all of the TNT/NBA guys defend him? I don't get it. For years they blasted dirk for being a soft choker(for weber I think he just couldn't guard dirk so he was biased) and dirk has never been defended by them when he has struggled. yet they defend that guy and he looks like he is a punk off of the court as well(which I could be wrong)? I don't get it.
I am obviously biased about dirk, but dirk does not have the street cred that melo and some of the other guys that have done far less do......
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You should read the posts years earlier complaing about Marion's defense especially against Dirk.
I think marion was one of dirk's best defenders and bowen, until steve nash left and he had to become more of the go to guy in all situations. but in the 2005 playoffs marion frustrated dirk a lot. even in 2006 I think dirk had his wost playoff game ever against marion, but the next game he had his best playoff game. marion really helped dirk evolve his game lol, then helped him win a ring.
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Marion caught the heat here with the Suns by his inability to stop Dirk and defend the PF position. That's partially why many fans in Phoenix wanted to see him leave. Now Marion gets the last laugh.
Yeah I remember...he and raja were the only guys that really got after it defensively and phoenix put all of the pressure on those two guys when they lost.
asking marion to guard dirk is unrealistic because of his size. but he did bother dirk. I think dirk had to evolve his game because of guys like marion who would get very physical with him and not allow him to drive. but it helped him develop a dominating post game and now he just shoots over those people or blows by them when they hug his sac. hell he was shooting over amare and chandler last night and they were saying that he was traveling. it seems like every time the mavericks play against dantoni he says that dirk travels and he complains after the game. he used to do that in phoenix all of the time. chandler should recall that dirk (making unblockable shots)is the reason he has that ring. but it goes both ways for those two.
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Phrazbit
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Amare also said repeatedly that he was in the "best shape of his career" right before the season...
And a few added pounds wouldnt account for his total lack of effort on defense and on the glass. Even with his offense going last night he was none existent on D, with him playing that poorly on D he needs to score about 30 points on 17 shots to offset it.
He looks like he is in a steep decline, and I think he is starting to realize it.
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Phrazbit
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Melo is obscenely overrated. An inefficient volume scorer who takes away just as much from the offense as he adds to it. If he could learn to move off the ball and to catch and shoot like Kevin Durant does then Melo would be lethal. But they way he plays for the Knicks, if he isnt red hot then he is trash.
However, I think Amare beats him out on the "overrated" end. Amare is now a jump shooting power forward... with a mediocre jumper, who does absolutely nothing else at a passable level for a starter, much less a star. His points per attempt this year suck, even last year BEFORE they got Melo his points per attempt were at this lowest rate in years. For Amare to be on the level of efficient you linked then he needs to be spoon fed to the utmost degree, and he needs to be the athletic freak he once was... he has neither thing going for him in NY.
Its no coincidence that the Knicks were much much better without their "stars", and its not just that the little guys stepped up. Its that at this point those little guys are actually better players, and certainly better fits on that team.
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Folster
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I remember it differently. Marion absolutely disappeared in the playoffs versus the Spurs. Popovich targeted him as the Suns ex-factor and placed Bowen on him severely limiting Marion's production.
He averaged 7.8 points in the 2005 WCF's versus the Spurs
JustWinBaby
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It is obscenely obvious that you dislike Amare.
I would take Amare, bad knees and all. way ahead of Melo.
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I would too but if it was solely based on their play this season it would be hard to choose. I like a lot of things about Amare and I've always enjoyed watching him play. So far this year I don't even recognize the guy. Hopefully, he'll drop the weight and regain his game.
Steve
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Phrazbit
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Whatever, watch the Knicks this year, watch Amare, especially on defense. There is not a worse defensive player in all of the NBA. Amare is a flat out bad player right now and I dont think its even disputable.
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Now that's just silly. Amare is not a good defender, but he is far from being the worst defensive player in the league. I also think that Amare is somewhat overrated offensively, but when you look at all aspects of his game, he is a fine player. He is grossly overpaid, but he is a fine player. There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't like to have Amare for a reasonable price (Probably $12M-14M per year.)
I was always an Amare critic, and I think the Suns made the right choice letting him go, but I really think that some people are really taking their criticism of Amare too far. To say that he is the worst defensive player in the NBA is just silly.
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I think both views are correct.
JustWinBaby
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Thank you
An honest and fair appraisal of Amare, finally.
Dolan is the one who overpaid for Amare, that is why he is grossly overpaid. Dolan also traded a lot of very good players for Melo, which was even more gross.
I wish Dolan would not have offerred the deal he did to Amare. He would still be here under the Sarver deal. Amare and the Suns would be better off.
Tonight
Melo 27 pts on 24 shots - leading scorer in another loss with him on the court.
Amare 18 pts on 12 shots - (Amare usually has put up 40 when geting 24 shots up) Amare never has been a shot hog, while generally taking good shots and rarely forcing up bad shots.
JustWinBaby
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That's fair
He surely has not been the player we all or at least some of us loved to watch while he was a Sun.
Amare is dropping the weight and should be better, going forward.
I don't here much complaining from Denver about Melo no longer being on their team.
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Phrazbit
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This year Amare is not a fine player, he has been a lousy player. And not just in terms of his contract compared to his play, he has been a lousy player in general. He has not been efficient on offense, he is having the worst rebounding year of his career and I honestly to not think its an exaggeration to say he is the worst defender in the NBA, and if he is not dead last, he is damn close. The Knicks defensive splits when Amare is on and off the court are jaw dropping, and then you watch him play... and you almost think they could be worse. He is completely lost on rotations and pick and rolls and this year he isnt even getting his hands up against shooters. Shooting percentage, rebounding, blocks are ALL at career low levels for him, his assist to turnover ratio ranks him 398th in the league... one of the worst ratios of any player who receives regular PT.
It may sound like hating on him, but the stats absolutely back it up. Amare is not a good player, he is not an average player, he is a bad NBA player this season and there is every reason to expect him to further decline.
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Phrazbit
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I have watched plenty of their games, but if you dont believe me, go hop on a Knicks board and see what the people who have been watching him all year have to say on the subject.
They are nearly unanimous in their hatred of Amare at this point.
They are nearly unanimous in their hatred of Amare at this point.
elindholm
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That's a shame. Stoudemire's effort has never been at a superstar level, but it has consistently been above average, even through setbacks that would have caused a lot of players to lose heart. I can understand being disappointed with his performance, but to turn on him personally is awfully severe.
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Sorry but as long as Hakim Warrick continues to breathe the NBA air, Amare will have to settle for something other than worst defender in the league.
BTW, I don't think anyone is contesting that Amare is playing poorly this season. He bulked up in anticipation of having to guard the center position but the acquisition of Chandler moved him back to the PF spot. Unfortunately, the extra weight has really taken his game down a notch on both ends of the court (okay, several notches on both ends of the court). I think he'll bounce back as he drops the pounds but that remains to be seen.
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Phrazbit
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I just dont buy that excuse. Before the year he said repeatedly he was in the best shape of his career. And watching him "bulk" is not the problem. If he has bulk it might account for SOME of his failures but it doesnt even come close to explaining his inactivity on defense.
But yes, "Hack" is terrible, he is like an extreme version of Amare but in all the worst ways.
As for Amare himself... the Knicks opponents shoot 5% better when Amare is out of the game compared to when he is in, they score 9 more points per 100 possessions when Amare is out vs in. And this is not the result of small sample sizes.
When Amare is IN the game the Knicks have been out scored by a cumulative total of 66 points this year, when Amare is on the bench the Knicks have outscored their opponents by 120 points.
That is a 186 point swing...
The Knicks are not just better using players like Jarred Jefferies and Josh Harrellson (a 2nd round pick this year), they are DRASTICALLY better.
So no, this is not my bias or my exaggeration. Amare has been a very bad NBA player this season, and we can wait and see if he gets better but most big men with his kind of history only get worse, and his struggles get exasperated because he has always leaned so heavily on his athleticism and has never been a fundamentally sound player.
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You said it yourself, his game is built on athleticism. For every player, there comes a point where too much muscle becomes a negative. If you don't believe me, go ask Kobe. Now, it's possible that you are correct and his injury addled career is now officially on the decline but until we see him at his normal playing weight, I think the jury remains out.
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Phrazbit
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10 extra pounds of muscle should not account for becoming a total liability to your team.
Amare started heading this direction during last season, his numbers declined as the months went on, and started declining before the Anthony trade. And the trend has continued this year.
But like I said. A 186 point swing and undeniably being outplayed by a players considered to be 2nd round material and Jarred Jefferies, who was waiver wire leftovers last season.
The jury can remain out. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, especially people who saw so much solid play from him in years past, but I fully expect the evidence to only pile up higher towards a guilty verdict as the season, and his career, wears on.
