Amare looks done

[sunsfan88]

Amare was arguably the NBA's best PF until Melo came to NY. Anthony ruined Amare's game altogether and now people are turning on Amare instead of 'Melo?!

 

[JustWinBaby]

Amare was arguably the NBA's best PF until Melo came to NY. Anthony ruined Amare's game altogether and now people are turning on Amare instead of 'Melo?!

Knick fans change by the day. All of them do not blame Amare for their problems, but he surely has his detractors.

One day it is Amare the next it is Melo. Melo's list of detractors is growing daily.

I expect them to throw Lin under the bus at some point as well. Currently he is already being kicked off the curb.

The facts are the Knicks won far more games without Melo, last year and this year.

Amare was far more effective and the team as a whole has looked far better without Melo, last year and this year.

Amare was an All Star and in the hunt for MVP without Melo. With Melo his career is about over according to some.

It was and is a horrible fit. One of those guys has to go.

Take your pick.

 

[elindholm]

Knick fans change by the day. All of them do not blame Amare for their problems, but he surely has his detractors.

One day it is Amare the next it is Melo. Melo's list of detractors is growing daily.

I expect them to throw Lin under the bus at some point as well. Currently he is already being kicked off the curb.

The facts are the Knicks won far more games without Melo, last year and this year.

Amare was far more effective and the team as a whole has looked far better without Melo, last year and this year.

Amare was an All Star and in the hunt for MVP without Melo. With Melo his career is about over according to some.

It was and is a horrible fit. One of those guys has to go.

Take your pick.

There is this concept called a "paragraph" that you may want to look into to. Not every sentence is a punch line.

 

[95pro]

There's an article out about Amare losing weight. He's trying to get down to 245, currently at 250ish now.

 

[Phrazbit]

There's an article out about Amare losing weight. He's trying to get down to 245, currently at 250ish now.

I wont dispute that Amare might be trying to shed some pounds, but I doubt 5-10 pounds is the difference between him being an all-star and him being a vastly inferior player compared to Jarred Jefferies.

 

[Neo]

There is this concept called a "paragraph" that you may want to look into to. Not every sentence is a punch line.

Yeah,

I totally

agree

with you.

 

[jagu]

It's amazing how fast Amare regressed with the trade for Carmelo. I remember watching games early last season with Galinari, Chandler, and Felton and he looked unstoppable. I think a part of his decline is his knees and another part is the lack of a team concept with the Knicks starting lineup. Felton to Amare was the last we saw of that dominant MVP type Amare Stoudemire.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wont dispute that Amare might be trying to shed some pounds, but I doubt 5-10 pounds is the difference between him being an all-star and him being a vastly inferior player compared to Jarred Jefferies.

Even 5-10 pounds can make a huge difference in a players speed, quickness and leaping ability especially when that player is already dealing with knee issues. Also, my comments on this subject were made with the understanding that Amare put on almost 20 extra pounds. I don't know it that's true or not but someone mentioned that early in this thread and as no one contested it I accepted it as accurate.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Even 5-10 pounds can make a huge difference in a players speed, quickness and leaping ability especially when that player is already dealing with knee issues. Also, my comments on this subject were made with the understanding that Amare put on almost 20 extra pounds. I don't know it that's true or not but someone mentioned that early in this thread and as no one contested it I accepted it as accurate.

Steve

Fair enough. I do agree with you, the verdict isnt in yet, but based on the track record I dont expect improvement.

 

[BC867]

... another part is the lack of a team concept with the Knicks starting lineup.

That's a good point.

As Head Coach, Pringles is, and has always been, a gimmick. Not a "team" coach. It limits every member of the squad.

 

[JustWinBaby]

That's a good point.

As Head Coach, Pringles is, and has always been, a gimmick. Not a "team" coach. It limits every member of the squad.

Are you blaming D'Antoni for not selling Melo on the concept of team play? If you are you are right on the money. If you think Coach D does not want team play you are wrong. That is what 7 SOS was all about. The ball finds the right spot and the TEAM gets and takes good shots. If you watched them play when Melo was injured that is exactly how they were playing. Now Lin appears to be catering to Melo rather than the team concept. The bad part is that D'Antoni seems to be in Melo's corner. That has to change or they will continue to struggle. Karl fought the same issues in Denver with Melo. When Melo would do more than hog the ball the Nuggets were pretty good. It has been reported that Billups suggested that whoever was the point guard in New York after he left, had to deal with Melo on this issue. Chauncey is right on the money, IMO.

 

[Superbone]

There is this concept called a "paragraph" that you may want to look into to. Not every sentence is a punch line.

Would you prefer the Internet staple, the single block of text?

Edit: Whoops. JWB already beat me to it. Much harder to read.

 

[Phrazbit]

Tonight, a prime example of how overrated Amare is even when playing well. His box score looks good, but he was as bad as ever on defense and his hilarious inability to check his man on rebounds let to 17 offensive boards for the bucks. And in a back to back sequence in the clutch stood by and watched his man get an eeeasy put back on a missed layup, then followed up the play on the other end by committing a game losing travel on what should have been a lay in. Oh, and then fouled out.

 

[Bufalay]

Tonight, a prime example of how overrated Amare is even when playing well. His box score looks good, but he was as bad as ever on defense and his hilarious inability to check his man on rebounds let to 17 offensive boards for the bucks. And in a back to back sequence in the clutch stood by and watched his man get an eeeasy put back on a missed layup, then followed up the play on the other end by committing a game losing travel on what should have been a lay in. Oh, and then fouled out.

Are you talking about the play when Jennings missed the terrible shot and Ilyasova got the putback? If so, that was Anthony's man he just lost track of him after the pick and roll. Stoudemire was boxing out Gooden.

 

[Mainstreet]

Are you talking about the play when Jennings missed the terrible shot and Ilyasova got the putback? If so, that was Anthony's man he just lost track of him after the pick and roll. Stoudemire was boxing out Gooden.

Did you get a chance to watch the game? If so, what did you think of Ilyasova. I like him as a FA prospect for the Suns.

 

[Bufalay]

Did you get a chance to watch the game? If so, what did you think of Ilyasova. I like him as a FA prospect for the Suns.

Just caught the highlights, but ya Ilyasova is pretty good.

 

[jagu]

I used to hate Ilysasova, now after seeing plenty of Bucks games I'm sold. This guy has skills.

 

[Phrazbit]

I used to hate Ilysasova, now after seeing plenty of Bucks games I'm sold. This guy has skills.

Did you know that he is really just James Franco in stilts?

 

[Phrazbit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnpY...DvjVQa1PpcFPMNp4M2vWfSoyQuiB6tr87KfZGHeazhrE=

lol a lovely example of Amare's defense from last night.

I am not exaggerating and I do not think I am hating when I say that Amare is quite possibly literally (and yes, the real literally) the worst defender in the league among players who receive regular playing time.

To those of you who still wish the Suns had kept him, please, stop beating yourselves up. Do yourself a favor and watch a good chunk of Knicks games, if you dont have league pass there are plenty streaming websites I can point you to.

Amare is so awful on defense that he would literally (once again, the real literally) have to average like 40 points a game on 60% shooting to balance out the horrific impact his defense has on the game.

 

[JustWinBaby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnpY...DvjVQa1PpcFPMNp4M2vWfSoyQuiB6tr87KfZGHeazhrE=

lol a lovely example of Amare's defense from last night.

I am not exaggerating and I do not think I am hating when I say that Amare is quite possibly literally (and yes, the real literally) the worst defender in the league among players who receive regular playing time.

To those of you who still wish the Suns had kept him, please, stop beating yourselves up. Do yourself a favor and watch a good chunk of Knicks games, if you dont have league pass there are plenty streaming websites I can point you to.

Amare is so awful on defense that he would literally (once again, the real literally) have to average like 40 points a game on 60% shooting to balance out the horrific impact his defense has on the game.

Your personal vendetta is just that, personal.

I watched the game as well and here is my take. I watched more than a 20 second clip on youtube.

Amare had 27 and 11 on 11 for 15 shooting, pretty effing good. He looks like he is getting some of his athleticism back, he has lost 10 or 15 pounds.

Whoever was supposed to guard him had to play worse defense than Amare in that Amare was the leading scorer in the game. That makes at least one person in the league a worse defender than Amare.

Amare +10
Fields +11
Lin +13

Melo -5

Everyone else was minus

The Bucks shot 13 for 26 from the 3 point line, which is the main reason they won. Is Amare supposed to guard the point line as well?
The Knicks outscored them 60 to 50 in the paint, where Amare plays, mostly thanks to Amare. He got no help from Melo on defense or the boards. Without Chandler and Jeffries Amare needed help and got none.

Melo did his usual pout and did his usual ISO crap and contributed virtually nothing after a decent 1st quarter or so.

Not everyone views it as you and most of the morons on the Knicks Real GM board. A lot of them also view Melo as the 2nd coming. That is where they lose all credibility IMO.

Yep, I would still like Amare on our team. So would Steve Nash, Grant Hill and Coach Gentry.

 

[Phrazbit]

Your personal vendetta is just that, personal.

I watched the game as well and here is my take. I watched more than a 20 second clip on youtube.

Amare had 27 and 11 on 11 for 15 shooting, pretty effing good. He looks like he is getting some of his athleticism back, he has lost 10 or 15 pounds.

Whoever was supposed to guard him had to play worse defense than Amare in that Amare was the leading scorer in the game. That makes at least one person in the league a worse defender than Amare.

Amare +10
Fields +11
Lin +13

Melo -5

Everyone else was minus

The Bucks shot 13 for 26 from the 3 point line, which is the main reason they won. Is Amare supposed to guard the point line as well?
The Knicks outscored them 60 to 50 in the paint, where Amare plays, mostly thanks to Amare. He got no help from Melo on defense or the boards. Without Chandler and Jeffries Amare needed help and got none.

Melo did his usual pout and did his usual ISO crap and contributed virtually nothing after a decent 1st quarter or so.

Not everyone views it as you and most of the morons on the Knicks Real GM board. A lot of them also view Melo as the 2nd coming. That is where they lose all credibility IMO.

Yep, I would still like Amare on our team. So would Steve Nash, Grant Hill and Coach Gentry.

Yes, Amare had a +/- in the positive, if you want to lean on that for your argument then it makes his performance against the Bucks one of the the few games this year where he was not a complete disaster for his team. By the way, you posted earlier in this thread a stat line of 18 points on 12 shots for Amare as evidence in his favor... in that same game he posted a +/- of -21, by far the worst on his team.

Plus minus clearly demonstrates how negative Amare's impact is for every second the Knicks are stuck with him on the court. As I pointed out earlier, the Knicks have been outscored by 66 with him in the game, and out scored their foes by 120 without him. A 186 point swing. Looking at their baseline defensive stats you can tell its no fluke. He is being outplayed, by a very very wide margin by Josh Harrellson and Jarred Jefferies. How that can be accounted for and still come away thinking Amare is not a complete dead weight on that roster is beyond me.

Call me a hater, say I have a vendetta, fine, but then the stats and the facts have a vendetta too.

At this point in his career, Amare Stoudemire is a crappy player, and unless he bucks the trend that other big man have traveled down, he is only going to get worse.

 

[Phrazbit]

Amare, with another banner game. 9 points 5 boards. But he probably gained 15 pounds yesterday.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Amare, with another banner game. 9 points 5 boards. But he probably gained 15 pounds yesterday.

No, you're not hating.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

No, you're not hating.

Steve

lol, I couldnt help but crack a joke. He seriously looks horrendous out there. I cant imagine how anyone thinks this guy is still a star.

 

[AfroSuns]

lol, I couldnt help but crack a joke. He seriously looks horrendous out there. I cant imagine how anyone thinks this guy is still a star.

Yea, Amare adding weight is a dumb move because of his knees,but he is not the reason for the Knicks on court woes. They seriously screwed the pooch (so far) with the Anthony signing. Letting Galinari and Chandler go was an epic fail. You only have to look at how Denver plays like a team without Anthony and how Knicks have sucked since the trade.

The trade seriously affected Amare's game too