Amare on the block.

[elindholm]

So lets talk about this. You trade Amar'e and then what?

It's a move for the future. Why is this so difficult to understand? Are the Suns going to get better NOW by trading Stoudemire, no, of course not, don't be absurd.

The question is, how can current assets be best managed to position the team for rebuilding in 2010? Is Stoudemire the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort? No. Is his value going to go up over the next year and a half? No. Do the Suns have any other trade assets that could fetch a significant return? No. If they stand pat, do they have any hope now OR in the immediate future? No.

The present is crap. Flush it and move on. Sell the best piece of property you have and get to work on a long-term strategy.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

You guys who are so focused on it being Porter's fault never seem to acknowledge that this team was never going anywhere and D'Antoni left behind a bunch of spoiled, undeveloped, undisciplined players. Nash lost a step last year and that was clear all year. Now, this year it's a half a step worse.

When Porter yelled at the team during a practice and brought them in for a closed-door grilling a couple weeks ago, that was not only a brilliant thing to do, it was something that none of these guys had ever had and they probably cannot respond to that.

IMO, Porter is in an unenviable position....

 

[Goran Stoudemire]

It is no doubt a cop out but he is already being traded out. What he said is true even if it isn't what we want to hear from someone who knows he is leaving. Amar'e is going and now the Cardinals aren't distracting the valley. The scapegoat and the distractions are almost gone and there is little left to hide Porters horrible coaching and the teams mistakes. A lot of people here think that by highlighting Amar'e's mistakes and trading him will fix the team but as long as this team has Porter and kerr running it this team is not going anywhere.

Oh and by the way here is what Amar'e said...



http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/2/6/751532/amare-trade-open-thread

Thanks for the real quote. I love the media and everyone taking it out of context and ignoring the part where he put most of the blame on himself.

 

[Covert Rain]

So lets talk about this. You trade Amar'e and then what? How do you fix the turnovers? How do you fix the horrible PER defense? How do you fix the lack of a back up for Nash, if you are going for a PF then how do you get that backup for Shaq if you are replacing Amar'e who plays center when he is out how many PF's in this league can play PF and C and know what they are doing?

That depends. If your trading Amare to still make a run then you do so by trading for a player who plays better defense and rebounds.

In terms of turnovers, Amare is #15 in the NBA in turnovers at 135. I would say removing those goes along way on helping turnovers. Although it doesn't solve Nash's turnovers or Barnes for that matter it would be a start. Nash at least makes up for some with his high assist ratio.

I am not as concerned with backup for Nash because IMO Barbs has been doing a nice job. However, if you can get a backup as part of the Nash trade I would be for that.

Also, i would argue that Amare can't play Center either. If you look at his numbers and how bad this defense gets when Shaq is not on the floor, it's not like you could do much worse.

PS. Amare is only part of the problem. I at least don't believe that trading Amare is enough. I think Porter needs to go. I think Nash needs to go. Just my opinion. However, if I had to pick one player to trade to make a run it would be Amare first. My next choice would be Nash because I believe if we had a defensive minded guard, the defense would much bettter.

By far are two weakest defenders on this team are Nash and Amare. If you want to have a defensive minded team, you can't have either of those guys on your roster unless your team is STACKED with defense to protect them.

 

[Andrew]

I agree with what Karl Malone said last night on TNT:

The problem is with Porter, the players look at him and think "What have you done?"...that some of the players have better accolades than he does and that is hard to overcome.

Taking a page outta Around The Horn today, a Nash/Amare offense should not be struggling like this. It is the system, Porter's system. Amare is only partly to blame.

 

[Blackification]

It's a move for the future. Why is this so difficult to understand? Are the Suns going to get better NOW by trading Stoudemire, no, of course not, don't be absurd.

The question is, how can current assets be best managed to position the team for rebuilding in 2010? Is Stoudemire the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort? No. Is his value going to go up over the next year and a half? No. Do the Suns have any other trade assets that could fetch a significant return? No. If they stand pat, do they have any hope now OR in the immediate future? No.

The present is crap. Flush it and move on. Sell the best piece of property you have and get to work on a long-term strategy.

The foundation is still rotten even if you trade your most valuable position your coach still doesn't know what he is doing and the players are not into the system without first cleaning the foundation the property will never stand out.

You guys who are so focused on it being Porter's fault never seem to acknowledge that this team was never going anywhere and D'Antoni left behind a bunch of spoiled, undeveloped, undisciplined players. Nash lost a step last year and that was clear all year. Now, this year it's a half a step worse.

When Porter yelled at the team during a practice and brought them in for a closed-door grilling a couple weeks ago, that was not only a brilliant thing to do, it was something that none of these guys had ever had and they probably cannot respond to that.

IMO, Porter is in an unenviable position....

It isn't all Porter's fault either he is in a horrible position and Kerr is wanting him to make a team that doesn't believe in his system play in his system. Kerr wants to put a block through a circle hole and is fixing one edge with every trade but ruining another. Porter wasn't the right coach for this team but from Kerr's requests not many people are. Sarver will get tired of Kerr and he already is hesitant to trade Amar'e if Kerr fails with this trade he is gone next year and Porter is next. Porter is a head coach he said he would make the team better he failed to do so yet he is still here and we are losing another player.

 

[Chaplin]

You guys who are so focused on it being Porter's fault never seem to acknowledge that this team was never going anywhere and D'Antoni left behind a bunch of spoiled, undeveloped, undisciplined players. Nash lost a step last year and that was clear all year. Now, this year it's a half a step worse.

When Porter yelled at the team during a practice and brought them in for a closed-door grilling a couple weeks ago, that was not only a brilliant thing to do, it was something that none of these guys had ever had and they probably cannot respond to that.

IMO, Porter is in an unenviable position....

STOP giving Porter a free pass. It's JANUARY, if the head coach of a team has to "yell" at the team during a practice (and it's unusual), then he's obviously not doing something right.

Porter is absolutely part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.

The problem is that you Porter apologists are thinking in black and white--it's not as easy as being pro-Porter/anti-players or anti-Porter/pro-players. This team has problems on and off the court. Porter is definitely in an unenviable position, but he doesn't have the intelligence to fix anything on this team. I'm not a huge fan of Gentry, but he would certainly be better than Porter.

 

[Blackification]

Great post in fanhouse and says a lot about Amare and the situation in Phoenix.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/02/06/the-rotation-the-essence-of-amare/

 

[nowagimp]

You guys who are so focused on it being Porter's fault never seem to acknowledge that this team was never going anywhere and D'Antoni left behind a bunch of spoiled, undeveloped, undisciplined players. Nash lost a step last year and that was clear all year. Now, this year it's a half a step worse.

When Porter yelled at the team during a practice and brought them in for a closed-door grilling a couple weeks ago, that was not only a brilliant thing to do, it was something that none of these guys had ever had and they probably cannot respond to that.

IMO, Porter is in an unenviable position....

Every player on the suns roster aside from shaq has fallen off this year under porters new systems. And shaq looks physically rejuvenated, like he is actually in good shape for the first time in years, so Im not sure his improvement has anything to do with porter. Go ahead blame all the players for this total team dysfunctionality while your unproven coach makes dumb decision after dumb decision. But all along NBA professionals have been asking: what were they thinking when they assembled that roster? Surely all these players know the margin for error in the ultra competitive NBA is small for those who would like to win a championship. I cant blame the players for not having faith in the coaches abilities, all evidence is to the contrary.

 

[elindholm]

The foundation is still rotten even if you trade your most valuable position your coach still doesn't know what he is doing and the players are not into the system without first cleaning the foundation the property will never stand out.

This analogy is stretched awfully thin. Almost no one on the current roster is going to be here in 2010-11. O'Neal is gone, Nash is probably gone, Hill is gone, Barnes is gone, and you can damn well bet Porter will be gone. What the Suns do over the next year and a half is about two things and two things only: establishing some semblance of a core for the rebuilding effort, and maintaining any credibility as a franchise.

Kerr wants to put a block through a circle hole and is fixing one edge with every trade but ruining another.

You're right. But it's too late to complain that Kerr is in charge. Here's the reality people don't want to accept: D'Antoni's run-and-gun Suns are no more. Lots of things went wrong, mainly with the ownership and front office, but we can't go back in time and undo those mistakes. By putting profits over the honest pursuit of a championship, the Suns took a path of zero margin for error. Now is the time to face up to that failure and try to make the best of it.

 

[LV-Suns]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/67049/ Amare_talks_trade.mp3

 

[goldseraph]

In my NBA Live 09 franchise, I was yesterday offered Durant and Chris Wilcox for Stoudemire and accepted. If only we could do this in reality!

 

[Blackification]

This analogy is stretched awfully thin. Almost no one on the current roster is going to be here in 2010-11. O'Neal is gone, Nash is probably gone, Hill is gone, Barnes is gone, and you can damn well bet Porter will be gone. What the Suns do over the next year and a half is about two things and two things only: establishing some semblance of a core for the rebuilding effort, and maintaining any credibility as a franchise.



You're right. But it's too late to complain that Kerr is in charge. Here's the reality people don't want to accept: D'Antoni's run-and-gun Suns are no more. Lots of things went wrong, mainly with the ownership and front office, but we can't go back in time and undo those mistakes. By putting profits over the honest pursuit of a championship, the Suns took a path of zero margin for error. Now is the time to face up to that failure and try to make the best of it.

Good points. Hopefully when 2010 comes around Kerr will be gone too and we can bait some people from that huge FA market. Only chance we have at rebuilding since we have no draft picks and no way are we getting a superstar with the people we have to trade since they will all just opt out 2010.

 

[Covert Rain]

Bottom line for me is that Porter needs to be fired. He can't coach. Also, this team can never be turned into a defensive unit capable if winning a title if 2 out of your starting 5 (Nash and Amare) are some of the worst defenders at their respective positions in the NBA.

If you want to make a run this year, either Nash or Amare has to go. I think the reason people are saying Amare is because Amare carries much more value then Nash at this stage in their careers.

If this team is to be blown up, I want to see both go. However, Porter has to go.

 

[nowagimp]

Great post in fanhouse and says a lot about Amare and the situation in Phoenix.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/02/06/the-rotation-the-essence-of-amare/

That is a pretty good assessment. I fear the suns will trade(not a suns management skill) amare and he will end up making us regret it. It appears that amare will be dealt so kerr can execute his plan. I really dont like the idea of dealing such a talent so our unproven coach/GM tandem can play fantasy basketball, ughhh!

 

[Covert Rain]

That is a pretty good assessment. I fear the suns will trade(not a suns management skill) amare and he will end up making us regret it. It appears that amare will be dealt so kerr can execute his plan. I really dont like the idea of dealing such a talent so our unproven coach/GM tandem can play fantasy basketball, ughhh!

Regret it from what perspective? I have no doubt Amare could come in here and dominate on the offensive end. It would happen eventually. However, I would be confident he probably wouldn't hurt us on the boards and he sure is hell wouldn't play defense well enough for us to care about that side of his game.

 

[mojorizen7]

Watch Kerr end up making a deal like a Grant Hill/Goran Tragic to the LAKERS for $$$ and a future 2nd or something.....and Porter,AMare, and Nash go nowhere......

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[asudevil83]

You guys who are so focused on it being Porter's fault never seem to acknowledge that this team was never going anywhere and D'Antoni left behind a bunch of spoiled, undeveloped, undisciplined players. Nash lost a step last year and that was clear all year. Now, this year it's a half a step worse.

When Porter yelled at the team during a practice and brought them in for a closed-door grilling a couple weeks ago, that was not only a brilliant thing to do, it was something that none of these guys had ever had and they probably cannot respond to that.

IMO, Porter is in an unenviable position....

AGREED. anyone remember how the season ended last year. as i recall the spurs schooled us. this team isnt really any different from last season. your vets are a year older and a year slower....with the promise of a decent bench that kinda just sucks, with rookies that were wasted picks right now.

IMO Porter isnt doing a horrible job. he was brought because the suns needed defensive discipline...only to realize that this team is full of players that just suck at defense.

the problem with this team isnt what's in the suits on the bench, its whats in the uni's on the floor. AWEFUL defense, lack of aggression, no rebounding, turnovers. all those come from the players themselves....not from the coach MAKING them do it from the sideline.

 

[DeAnna]

Great post in fanhouse and says a lot about Amare and the situation in Phoenix.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/02/06/the-rotation-the-essence-of-amare/

LoL, I liked this analogy from one of the comments (Gifford):

Shaq ... is like putting a tractor in with a bunch of porsches and the making the porsches slow down to keep pace with the tractor...yes, you'll get certain things with the tractor you didn't have before, but the price to the dynamic energy of the porsches is high.

 

[Andrew]

I love how I am ignored, I do think I can positively contribute to this discussion...


If you want to blow up the team, how does trading Amare make sense? The kid is still young, you aren't going to get a better player for him. Wouldn't you rebuild around Amare?

 

[Folster]

I wouldn't compare Amare to a Porche. Lately he's been a Camaro with a V6.

 

[Goran Stoudemire]

I love how I am ignored, I do think I can positively contribute to this discussion...


If you want to blow up the team, how does trading Amare make sense? The kid is still young, you aren't going to get a better player for him. Wouldn't you rebuild around Amare?

Nope. Nash still has another 5-6 years. We need to sign him to a extension and hope that Shaq wants to stay here too.

Then maybe we can get Dennis Rodman to come play PF because we desperately need a PF that can rebound while we rebuild around Nash and Shaq.

 

[krispydude]

why would you rebuild around amar'e? do you guys even watch him on the defensive side of the court? it's like you guys only see dunks. (that came from a great pass by nash or shaq dumped it off to him after amare's guy doubled shaq)

amar'e just doesn't have it to be a superstar on both ends and thats what you need to win championships. what happened to his "gorilla game" that he promised would be coming after his huge game? a bunch of crap.

 

[nowagimp]

Regret it from what perspective? I have no doubt Amare could come in here and dominate on the offensive end. It would happen eventually. However, I would be confident he probably wouldn't hurt us on the boards and he sure is hell wouldn't play defense well enough for us to care about that side of his game.

When shaq retires and the suns have no im pact big man for the next 10 years, just like the old days, the fans will moan louder than they did for dice thats for sure.

 

[cly2tw]

why would you rebuild around amar'e? do you guys even watch him on the defensive side of the court? it's like you guys only see dunks. (that came from a great pass by nash or shaq dumped it off to him after amare's guy doubled shaq)

amar'e just doesn't have it to be a superstar on both ends and thats what you need to win championships. what happened to his "gorilla game" that he promised would be coming after his huge game? a bunch of crap.

do you have a better alternative than rebuilding around amar'e? do u think with picks and cap room and tons of profit for sarver we can credibly rebuild it around some other comparable talent?